Tom Lee

[dragit]

Is he a spud or does he just need a bit of love and a chance?

My memory of his AFL games were that he showed some promise, but was a little underwhelming, lacking intensity? He's been asked to swap ends in the VFL and figured in the best most weeks…

Interesting to see how his numbers playing forward compare to Bruce's recent form… who after an enormous first half last year has dropped off quite a bit.

Bruces last 11 games
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles


Lees last 11 games
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

Tackles the only big discrepancy in those, probably an important indicator of intensity .

One of these players has essentially been written off, has been given 3 games in 2 years since richo arrived.

The other we are desperate to lock away on a long term deal and is earmarked as our next champion CHF.

These stats aren't everything, but that is pretty remarkable IMO.

It would be absolutely negligent to our list not give Lee a good run of games this year and the sooner the better… turning over the list is only effective if you have actually tried the players that you are making a call on.

We've invested 4 years in this guy, he's 25, 194cm… has good skills, playing good football at the level below.

I honestly don't know what have we got to lose by playing him? You never know, we could even find a player…

[Con Gorozidis]

No idea if he can make it in the AFL as a third defender but he is a lovely kick. I think he has to be a chance surely? 193cm third defender. Good in the air. Ok agility. Decent kick. I find it bizarre that the coach is allowing Dempser to block Lee from any opportunity. Yes Dempster is good - but why not rest Dempster from time to time? What good is it playing Dempster 22 games in a bottom 4 side? He will be gone next year anyway.

[ROLS-LEE]

Never had the opportunity. I keep hearing that our young draftees should have an extended period in the seniors regardless of output but lee has never had that opportunity. Lee can make it as a forward or back. Our taller forward recruits in Lynch A (gone) Membrey and Lee and to a point kosi has not succeeded or lived ro expectation due to being one dimensional (Roo) and our poor disposal to our forwards.

[Beno88]

No idea if he can make it in the AFL as a third defender but he is a lovely kick. I think he has to be a chance surely? 193cm third defender. Good in the air. Ok agility. Decent kick. I find it bizarre that the coach is allowing Dempser to block Lee from any opportunity. Yes Dempster is good - but why not rest Dempster from time to time? What good is it playing Dempster 22 games in a bottom 4 side? He will be gone next year anyway.

Are you talking about the same Dempster who's been top three in the best & fairest in 2015, 2014 and 2012?

[longtimesaint]

No idea if he can make it in the AFL as a third defender but he is a lovely kick. I think he has to be a chance surely? 193cm third defender. Good in the air. Ok agility. Decent kick. I find it bizarre that the coach is allowing Dempser to block Lee from any opportunity. Yes Dempster is good - but why not rest Dempster from time to time? What good is it playing Dempster 22 games in a bottom 4 side? He will be gone next year anyway.

Are you talking about the same Dempster who's been top three in the best & fairest in 2015, 2014 and 2012?

Why do you think dempster will be gone next year -he has just turned 32 and is still one of our best defenders.
I would think he has a year or two left.

[Bluthy]

You're cherry picking Bruce's last games where he had a lot of work put into him by the oppo.

There's a couple of available spots Tommy Lee could fill - our third tall back and our third tall forward. The problem with the forward line is he seemed to really struggle with an AFL tank. As the third forward he would need to be making hard leads all day and push up to the wings to link up play.

The problem with the backline (and forward line for that matter) is he' was pretty average when the ball hit the deck. He needs to be able to do good mop up work back there with hungry little forwards swarming. I think Roberton is more likely to make it as the third tall back. Lee could be a depth player as useful swingman. But hopefully we see him in the firsts at some point to see if he's developed.

[bigred]

If you read this forum too much it will tell you that Tom is a man child shyt human being.

[Con Gorozidis]

No idea if he can make it in the AFL as a third defender but he is a lovely kick. I think he has to be a chance surely? 193cm third defender. Good in the air. Ok agility. Decent kick. I find it bizarre that the coach is allowing Dempser to block Lee from any opportunity. Yes Dempster is good - but why not rest Dempster from time to time? What good is it playing Dempster 22 games in a bottom 4 side? He will be gone next year anyway.

Are you talking about the same Dempster who's been top three in the best & fairest in 2015, 2014 and 2012?

Why do you think dempster will be gone next year -he has just turned 32 and is still one of our best defenders.
I would think he has a year or two left.

Yes the same guy. Brilliant intercept mark. Courageous warrior. Same bloke that has come top 5 in the B & F. Averaged 7 marks a game last year. Down to 4 this year. Averaged 17 disposals last year. Down to 10 this year. Averaged 4 Rebound 50s per game in 2014. Down to 1.5 this year. Averaged 5 1%ers per game last year. Down to 2.5. Yes same bloke we are talking about.

He is also slow as treacle slow these days. In modern footy you need to be able to defend and provide a counter-attack. If you read my post I didnt say I wanted him gone - but I query what the good is to team development of him playing all 22 games this season.

[skeptic]

I for one have always been a big wrap for Tommy Lee.

He was decent as a forward towards the end of his first season and his shoulder ops put him behind in the next.

When he was eventually brought into the team, he was played as a forward/ruck in a team where the midfield was getting smashed.

Tom is not a ruck man. He's not a bash and crash kind of guy... nor is he a huge contested mark machine like Bruce. He's more you're lead up type forward, who is better when the ball is on the ground.
I feel like they could not have picked a more unsuitable role for him on his return the season before last. Set him up to fail.

With Bruce's emergence up forward, he's gone back now.
The thing with Tom is that he's more suited to a Dempster type role than he is a key post... however where he may come up short in contested marking, the view would be that he should make up for in delivery out of the backline and perhaps third man up.

In my opinion he needs a shot... and a good one.

I understand the reluctance to drop Dempster but our backline needs more attacking flare... more people that can move the ball out fast and effectively. Further to that, he offers more versatility in that with him, Bruce and Carlisle in the same team (longer term), you can move move players around forward to back as required. E.g. Bruce into the ruck, Hickey rests on the bench, Lee up forward or something.

He does this role for Sandy already and does it well.

I really want to see him have a decent shot. We could maybe even consider giving Webster a rest instead?

[felix]

Is he a spud or does he just need a bit of love and a chance?

My memory of his AFL games were that he showed some promise, but was a little underwhelming, lacking intensity? He's been asked to swap ends in the VFL and figured in the best most weeks…

Interesting to see how his numbers playing forward compare to Bruce's recent form… who after an enormous first half last year has dropped off quite a bit.

Bruces last 11 games
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles


Lees last 11 games
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

Tackles the only big discrepancy in those, probably an important indicator of intensity .

One of these players has essentially been written off, has been given 3 games in 2 years since richo arrived.

The other we are desperate to lock away on a long term deal and is earmarked as our next champion CHF.

These stats aren't everything, but that is pretty remarkable IMO.

It would be absolutely negligent to our list not give Lee a good run of games this year and the sooner the better… turning over the list is only effective if you have actually tried the players that you are making a call on.

We've invested 4 years in this guy, he's 25, 194cm… has good skills, playing good football at the level below.

I honestly don't know what have we got to lose by playing him? You never know, we could even find a player…

Are your comparisons Bruce afl vs Lee vfl....if so its not a very accurate comparison. But he should be given a shot for sure as you have explained.

[realdeal]

No idea if he can make it in the AFL as a third defender but he is a lovely kick. I think he has to be a chance surely? 193cm third defender. Good in the air. Ok agility. Decent kick. I find it bizarre that the coach is allowing Dempser to block Lee from any opportunity. Yes Dempster is good - but why not rest Dempster from time to time? What good is it playing Dempster 22 games in a bottom 4 side? He will be gone next year anyway.

Are you talking about the same Dempster who's been top three in the best & fairest in 2015, 2014 and 2012?

Why do you think dempster will be gone next year -he has just turned 32 and is still one of our best defenders.
I would think he has a year or two left.

Yes the same guy. Brilliant intercept mark. Courageous warrior. Same bloke that has come top 5 in the B & F. Averaged 7 marks a game last year. Down to 4 this year. Averaged 17 disposals last year. Down to 10 this year. Averaged 4 Rebound 50s per game in 2014. Down to 1.5 this year. Averaged 5 1%ers per game last year. Down to 2.5. Yes same bloke we are talking about.

Pretty sure that in the 2 games you've got these comprehensive stats from Dempster has been asked to play a lock down role on a key forward. Round one against Westoff or Shultz, round two against Stringer. Over these weeks, he's given away either 8-10 cm in height or the ball has been pumped down in his direction on a consistent basis. He's actually done the job on his man.

Dempster has been remarkable under the circumstances. What he needs is assistance, his teammates not turning it over through simple errors or a key back so he can play his natural game. Overall, I'd think that Dempster.... And Fisher... Are the very least of our problems..

[dragit]

You're cherry picking Bruce's last games where he had a lot of work put into him by the oppo..

I guess, but he will now have work put into him by every club...

The stats are the last 11 AFL games for the club, I'm pretty transparent about using the games since he has dropped off, this could be his new normal.

Bruce is streets ahead overall, but it's interesting to see how similar lees much maligned output is next to Bruce's recent form... Considering their perceived value.

[dragit]

Are your comparisons Bruce afl vs Lee vfl....if so its not a very accurate comparison. But he should be given a shot for sure as you have explained.

Only AFL games.

[spert]

Bruce had one or two big games last season, but it seems to me since then that opposition coaches are putting more time into covering him, and maybe he is not that effective at the moment- a bit of a forward, a bit of a ruckman. Lee probably needs to come in possibly as a forward, as Paddy is miles off, and we are going to struggle to kick a decent score, keeping in mind our backline has had two big scores kicked against them already, and I'm sure the Pies will put speed and height in their forward line this week.

[dragit]

I should have done a mystery poll

Going off their last 11 AFL Games, choose one player to banish to the VFL then delist and one to lock away on a lucrative long-term deal.

Player A - 23 YO - 197cm
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles

Player B - 25 YO - 194cm
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

[saynta]

You're cherry picking Bruce's last games where he had a lot of work put into him by the oppo.

There's a couple of available spots Tommy Lee could fill - our third tall back and our third tall forward. The problem with the forward line is he seemed to really struggle with an AFL tank. As the third forward he would need to be making hard leads all day and push up to the wings to link up play.

The problem with the backline (and forward line for that matter) is he' was pretty average when the ball hit the deck. He needs to be able to do good mop up work back there with hungry little forwards swarming. I think Roberton is more likely to make it as the third tall back. Lee could be a depth player as useful swingman. But hopefully we see him in the firsts at some point to see if he's developed.

Roberton has already made it, imho

[SMS]

Why the love for LEE? He looks and plays like a 14 year old virgin.
Bruce is a gun. Those stats are bruces worst games DOUBLE TEAMED vs LEEs best games with no oppo concern.

Fair dinkum.

Lee will be delisted in a few months THANK GOD!!!

Hes a spud. Potential yes but he is weak. Wont do the extra work or cut that virgin looking pimply looking FING HAIR! Just want to punch him for it. Anyone else feel that!! Ffs LEE get a haircut.

[kosifantutti]

No I don't feel like that. If I did, I'd seek help.

[BringBackMadDog]

Is he a spud or does he just need a bit of love and a chance?

My memory of his AFL games were that he showed some promise, but was a little underwhelming, lacking intensity? He's been asked to swap ends in the VFL and figured in the best most weeks…

Interesting to see how his numbers playing forward compare to Bruce's recent form… who after an enormous first half last year has dropped off quite a bit.

Bruces last 11 games
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles


Lees last 11 games
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

Tackles the only big discrepancy in those, probably an important indicator of intensity .

One of these players has essentially been written off, has been given 3 games in 2 years since richo arrived.

The other we are desperate to lock away on a long term deal and is earmarked as our next champion CHF.

These stats aren't everything, but that is pretty remarkable IMO.

It would be absolutely negligent to our list not give Lee a good run of games this year and the sooner the better… turning over the list is only effective if you have actually tried the players that you are making a call on.

We've invested 4 years in this guy, he's 25, 194cm… has good skills, playing good football at the level below.

I honestly don't know what have we got to lose by playing him? You never know, we could even find a player…

One VERY big difference in these stats. Bruce, as the number one forward is getting the very best defender from the opposition PLUS at least another defender jumping all over him in every contest. Lee, when he played would attract the 3rd tall defender and no one else, much easier to get a kick for Lee

[dragit]

One VERY big difference in these stats. Bruce, as the number one forward is getting the very best defender from the opposition PLUS at least another defender jumping all over him in every contest. Lee, when he played would attract the 3rd tall defender and no one else, much easier to get a kick for Lee

No doubt that's a factor… I think the point remains that if Lee came in and played to the standard he was previously, then his output would be very similar to Bruces current form.

[Myron Gaines]

Interesting stats.

Unfortunately I suspect Lee's papers are stamped & we'll never know if he becomes a decent AFL player at the top level.

[Sobraz]

I should have done a mystery poll

Going off their last 11 AFL Games, choose one player to banish to the VFL then delist and one to lock away on a lucrative long-term deal.

Player A - 23 YO - 197cm
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles

Player B - 25 YO - 194cm
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

Delist both players.

See which player has every club falling over themselves to secure his signiture v which player isn't even mentioned in recruiting conversations.

There's a lot more to a players ability and value than numbers on paper.

[ROLS-LEE]

Is he a spud or does he just need a bit of love and a chance?

My memory of his AFL games were that he showed some promise, but was a little underwhelming, lacking intensity? He's been asked to swap ends in the VFL and figured in the best most weeks…

Interesting to see how his numbers playing forward compare to Bruce's recent form… who after an enormous first half last year has dropped off quite a bit.

Bruces last 11 games
16 goals
3.72 marks
9.81 disp
2.81 tackles


Lees last 11 games
17 goals
4 marks per game
9.09 disp
1.63 tackles

Tackles the only big discrepancy in those, probably an important indicator of intensity .

One of these players has essentially been written off, has been given 3 games in 2 years since richo arrived.

The other we are desperate to lock away on a long term deal and is earmarked as our next champion CHF.

These stats aren't everything, but that is pretty remarkable IMO.

It would be absolutely negligent to our list not give Lee a good run of games this year and the sooner the better… turning over the list is only effective if you have actually tried the players that you are making a call on.

We've invested 4 years in this guy, he's 25, 194cm… has good skills, playing good football at the level below.

I honestly don't know what have we got to lose by playing him? You never know, we could even find a player…

One VERY big difference in these stats. Bruce, as the number one forward is getting the very best defender from the opposition PLUS at least another defender jumping all over him in every contest. Lee, when he played would attract the 3rd tall defender and no one else, much easier to get a kick for Lee

Hard for lee as a forward to get a kick back when he was playing due to being Reiwoldt conscious.

[Toy Saint]

Reckon we need a bit more height and strength in our forward line, which means Lee or Membry.

Reckon we need a bit more height and strength in our backline, which means Lee or Goddard.

Reckon we need a bit more skill and pace in our midfield, which means we need some decent draft picks....

[BigMart]

Bloody Riewoldt and his 9 marks a game... He has cost us dearly