Saints no elite players (Champion Data)

[Con Gorozidis]

No excuse for Armo and Steven not pushing up this year.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/champio ... cf08fb8787

[spert]

I've been waiting for Steven to take the next step, but I don't think it's going to happen, same for Armo. We haven't really developed players that well in recent years- many seem to have the goods, but never go the next step. We seriously need elite on the midfield.

[Sobraz]

Shane Edwards from Richmond is, but Jack Steven isn't.

Ok.

[ripplug66]

I've been waiting for Steven to take the next step, but I don't think it's going to happen, same for Armo. We haven't really developed players that well in recent years- many seem to have the goods, but never go the next step. We seriously need elite on the midfield.

Steven has just about taken the big step. 2 B&F in his last 2 years when he was fit. I don't know what people expect. I wouldn't take notice of these champion data stats to decide. Steven looks like a ordinary kick but because we are struggling he is told to take the game on That means turnovers occasionally. With more depth in the midfield he wont be trying the improbable as much.

[borderbarry]

Armo and Jack each got 12 brownlow votes this year. Pretty good effort. I wonder how many of the so=called elite players got less than 12.

[Bluthy]

Both Armo and Steven are not elite disposal so by definition that is going to push down their chance of ending up in this category. But its also a chicken and egg thing with being in a great team chock full of great players who make each others stats and effectiveness better. You put Armo in Hawks and he might become statistically elite as he has guys shoving the footy down his throat. We'll end up with our share of elite once we get a consistently talented and big-bodied side all working in sync. I thought Armo's first half of the year was one of the best of the comp seeing as he was in a bottom team before he struggled with an injury. The intangibles of organisation, hard ball winning, blocking and linking up play aren't always captured by these stats.

[borderbarry]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

[Bluthy]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

I'm actually agreeing with you. Elite doesn't necessarily reflect effectiveness. And its like Murphy at the Blues, they are carrying such a heavy load in a lowly team, they don't have Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Roughhead getting the ball to them, big bodies guys blocking and opening things up for them, good forwards making strong leads to give them clean targets to hit. But to me both ARmo and Steven lack really elite disposal skills.

Our younger brigade have been picked because they will be able to keep the footy. It will be exciting when we have a whole team that can really use the footy and ping it around at will. Every player will look better in that. I think we've got lots of potential for elite down the track - Billings, McCartin, Acres, Gresham, Freeman, Carlisle, Goddard, Lonie, Dunstan, Bruce. These are all guys that have an x-factor to them.

[Con Gorozidis]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

I never understand why people whinge about stats.
Noone is saying this is the be all and end all or stat stats mean anything. This is noones opinions.
It is what it is.
The champion data say no elite saints. People can cry and whinge that stats mean nothing and thats fine - but a total waste of time.
It is just saying that - ACCORDING TO CHAMPION DATA - this is the result.
Its the not the final definitive voice and noone has ever suggested it is.
I dont know why people have to take it so personal. It is completely impersonal.

It is no concidence that the top 2 teams have the most stats. That is because they are able to string multiple passes together and so generally they get more stats.

Now if for example Steven and Armo went and played in a better side - I have no doubt they would get more stats along with the team.

But I dont get why people have to cry about stats. It just is what it is. It isnt worth crying about. And it has nothing to do with anyones opinion. It is just numbers and a category 'elite' which is set at an arbitrary threshold.

[Con Gorozidis]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

Whose eyes? This isnt my opinion. I am just reporting an article on champion data stats. FFS.

[Con Gorozidis]

Would people prefer someone wrote an article and just made up some stats that reported the saints having 10 'elite' players and everyone else only have five or less? Would this make people feel warm and fuzzy?

I just dont get why peopel want to cry over stats. It isnt some personal assault on a player, nor a definitive assessment of their worth.

[ripplug66]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

I never understand why people whinge about stats.
Noone is saying this is the be all and end all or stat stats mean anything. This is noones opinions.
It is what it is.
The champion data say no elite saints. People can cry and whinge that stats mean nothing and thats fine - but a total waste of time.
It is just saying that - ACCORDING TO CHAMPION DATA - this is the result.
Its the not the final definitive voice and noone has ever suggested it is.
I dont know why people have to take it so personal. It is completely impersonal.

It is no concidence that the top 2 teams have the most stats. That is because they are able to string multiple passes together and so generally they get more stats.

Now if for example Steven and Armo went and played in a better side - I have no doubt they would get more stats along with the team.

But I dont get why people have to cry about stats. It just is what it is. It isnt worth crying about. And it has nothing to do with anyones opinion. It is just numbers and a category 'elite' which is set at an arbitrary threshold.

Surely you cant hear people crying? And the champion data stats aren't about more stats. They are a combination of many things. Steven actually got the most point this year on the AFL stats. Both should be taken as a grain of salt.

Forgetting CD it seems you think they aren't elite and that's fair enough. I agree on Armo nit quite being elite but I believe Steven is. He has one huge plus that bugger all footballers have and that is elite pace and he also uses it.

[Con Gorozidis]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

I never understand why people whinge about stats.
Noone is saying this is the be all and end all or stat stats mean anything. This is noones opinions.
It is what it is.
The champion data say no elite saints. People can cry and whinge that stats mean nothing and thats fine - but a total waste of time.
It is just saying that - ACCORDING TO CHAMPION DATA - this is the result.
Its the not the final definitive voice and noone has ever suggested it is.
I dont know why people have to take it so personal. It is completely impersonal.

It is no concidence that the top 2 teams have the most stats. That is because they are able to string multiple passes together and so generally they get more stats.

Now if for example Steven and Armo went and played in a better side - I have no doubt they would get more stats along with the team.

But I dont get why people have to cry about stats. It just is what it is. It isnt worth crying about. And it has nothing to do with anyones opinion. It is just numbers and a category 'elite' which is set at an arbitrary threshold.

Surely you cant hear people crying? And the champion data stats aren't about more stats. They are a combination of many things. Steven actually got the most point this year on the AFL stats. Both should be taken as a grain of salt.

Forgetting CD it seems you think they aren't elite and that's fair enough. I agree on Armo nit quite being elite but I believe Steven is. He has one huge plus that bugger all footballers have and that is elite pace and he also uses it.

When I have given my opinion? I just posted a link to an article. The words 'elite' were taken directly from the article They claimed no Saints elite (i bet you didnt even read it). SO IT ISNT MY OPINION. I WAS JUST POSTING AN ARTICLE. FFS. So yes you and barry were crying about my opinion when it clearly wasnt my effing opinion.

Now I feel like this guy.

[ripplug66]

When I have given my opinion? I just posted a link to an article. The words 'elite' were taken directly from the article They claimed no Saints elite (i bet you didnt even read it). SO IT ISNT MY OPINION. I WAS JUST POSTING AN ARTICLE. FFS. So yes you and barry were crying about my opinion when it clearly wasnt my effing opinion.

Now I feel like this guy.

Firstly I'm not crying. That is a ridiculous comment. Secondly I wasn't having a go at your opinion at all. I was having a go at the CD idea of elite and thirdly I thought you by saying that both players haven't got an excuse for pushing suggests you agree with CD. If you don't its weird you would say your first comment. AND EVEN THOUGH YOU WROTE IT ISNT MY OPINION IN CAPITALS IT SEEMS YOU DID GIVE YOUR OPINION. And you are right I didn't read it because it was unimportant to my comments. And I agree you should feel like the guy in the yellow. I have no idea how people know someone is crying over a comment but I'm getting closer to realising how you would know.

[magnifisaint]

Shane Edwards from Richmond is, but Jack Steven isn't.

Ok.

Who is Shane Edwards?

[kosifantutti]

He's either an elite midfielder who averages less than 20 disposals per game or an elite forward who averages less than a goal per game.

[Vazelos]

I've been waiting for Steven to take the next step, but I don't think it's going to happen, same for Armo. We haven't really developed players that well in recent years- many seem to have the goods, but never go the next step. We seriously need elite on the midfield.

Steven has just about taken the big step. 2 B&F in his last 2 years when he was fit. I don't know what people expect. I wouldn't take notice of these champion data stats to decide. Steven looks like a ordinary kick but because we are struggling he is told to take the game on That means turnovers occasionally. With more depth in the midfield he wont be trying the improbable as much.

Spot on plugger. You nailed what should be obvious to these 'experts.'

[Zed]

It's the old Champion team vs team of champions debate.

I'd rather we have team of above average players than a sprinkling of elites mixed with a sprinkling of duds.

It feels like we are building a champion team.

[Jacks Back]

It's the old Champion team vs team of champions debate.

I'd rather we have team of above average players than a sprinkling of elites mixed with a sprinkling of duds.

It feels like we are building a champion team.

How many times has our team of champions got us over the line in the big one? None!
In the 90s with Lockett, Leowe, Harvey, Winmar, Burke, Spider, etc, couldn't win it and
in the noughties with Roo, Hayes, Dal Santo, Ball, Goddard, Milne, Kosi, Montagna (and earlier Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill), etc, couldn't get it done either.

A champion team is what you want. No out and out stars but just really good all round players.

[CQ SAINT]

Armo and Jack Steven may not be elite to your eyes, but they are near enough for me. Each received 12 Brownlow votes this year. They were our two best players for 2015. I am hoping Jack Billing challenges them this season or next. I cant see anyone else at the club that may be elite.

I never understand why people whinge about stats.
Noone is saying this is the be all and end all or stat stats mean anything. This is noones opinions.
It is what it is.
The champion data say no elite saints. People can cry and whinge that stats mean nothing and thats fine - but a total waste of time.
It is just saying that - ACCORDING TO CHAMPION DATA - this is the result.
Its the not the final definitive voice and noone has ever suggested it is.
I dont know why people have to take it so personal. It is completely impersonal.

It is no concidence that the top 2 teams have the most stats. That is because they are able to string multiple passes together and so generally they get more stats.

Now if for example Steven and Armo went and played in a better side - I have no doubt they would get more stats along with the team.

But I dont get why people have to cry about stats. It just is what it is. It isnt worth crying about. And it has nothing to do with anyones opinion. It is just numbers and a category 'elite' which is set at an arbitrary threshold.

Why would you say 'no excuse' for Armo and Steven then. You either agree with what you posted or you dont. Why did you post it anyway. Now your sitting on the fence. Have an opinion Con. But just one please.

[CQ SAINT]

No excuse for Armo and Steven not pushing up this year.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/champio ... cf08fb8787

Perhaps you meant ' Boy Armo and Steven are going great guns. I really hope our second and third tier players can give them more support this year and boost them into getting someChampion data recognition for their elite work rate against massive odds.'

I'm sure thats what you meant?

I think?

[CQ SAINT]

I see Harley Bennell was elite at Freo but didnt make the grade at GCS. No wonder they wanted him so bad.

[ripplug66]

I see Harley Bennell was elite at Freo but didnt make the grade at GCS. No wonder they wanted him so bad.

You should see his CD stats at training.

[CQ SAINT]

I see Harley Bennell was elite at Freo but didnt make the grade at GCS. No wonder they wanted him so bad.

You should see his CD stats at training.

I see Harley Bennell was elite at Freo but didnt make the grade at GCS. No wonder they wanted him so bad.

You should see his CD stats at training.

Hahaha.

[IanRush]

Champion Data is owned by Simon Lethlean and Andrew Dillon at the AFL is it not? I’d be taking their data with a grain of salt! There was some kerfuffle late last year about how the AFL wanted its in-house statistical team to supply data for all 18 teams.