Unconvincing Kids

[bergholt]

Here's a bunch of young guys who I'm really not sure about at this point.

Murdoch: Mid-size and doesn't seem to be a midfielder - he doesn't get the ball much - or a forward - doesn't kick many goals. Not much for forward pressure either.

Saunders: Finds the ball a little bit and is a solid tackler, but his disposal is dubious and overall he doesn't seem to have much class.

Ross: Can find the ball but obviously has issues getting to enough contests. 25 games in and not clear to me if he's got the goods or is just pretending.

Curren: Hard worker, has an eye for goal, gets the ball a bit. But certainly not going to be an A-grade mid.


I have no doubt they're all on the list for next year but I'm worried about the quality of this group. I'd love to be convinced on these guys. What are their roles? How do you see them developing? What's the ceiling for them?

[dragit]

Add them to the list of
Weller, Shenton, Roberton, Siposs, Markworth, Simpkin, Milera, Dunell - shown bits and pieces, but no certainties.

We are getting impatient, but I guess we can't give up on most of those guys till they have pushed the 50 game mark. Some may not get the chance…

I think Saunders will come good, eilte endurance, electric pace… manic attack. Disposal can be poor, but hopefully it is more composure than just plain poor skills.

Ross I just worry about his pace, we have Dunstan who is already twice the player Seb is… I hope he proves me wrong.

Weller & Curren are battlers IMO, who will keep us competitive, but will eventually be squeezed out when more midfield talent arrives.

I heard Healy saying how highly Murdoch is rated at the saints yesterday… is he a slow developer? Not sure where he plays either, not agile enough for a mid, so probably a marking medium forward I guess.

[Con Gorozidis]

Fair calls.
Still time to assess. All will be there next year.
But none of those guys look like sure things to get to 50 games and/or be any good.
All of them have a fair bit of work in front of them and a few maybe all of them may struggle to make the grade.
To be honest if just one of those guys makes 50 games and becomes good id be happy.

[FQF]

Sure none of them have stamped themselves as certainties like Dunstan or Billings have, but all four have showed glimpses and give reason to believe that they will continue on the upward trajectory.

Murdoch: don't underestimate how tough it is to be a regular sub and be expected to make a meaningful contribution. I'm unsure why he hasn't been afforded the same opportunities as most of the other youngsters who have had extended runs of full games.

Saunders: has energy and pace. At this stage his style looks frantic and impulsive but once he settles into the side his use of speed should be more deliberate and his disposal should improve as a result.

Ross: He's improved a lot in the last month I think. Has good hands, great awareness in congestion and will only get better.

Curren: not only does he work hard, but I've noticed that he has a very reliable pair of hands for someone his size. Also needs to settle in and make better decisions, but won't be going anywhere.

All these guys will only get better. Together with Wright, Webster, Weller, Billings, Dunstan, Newnes and Eli we have plenty of youth who have talent and as each of them improve incrementally, the team will improve quickly. Throw in some of the unproven talents (this years draftees, Acres, Markworth) and I think we're doing okay.

[oldie60]

I think we are all on the same page but because of the mess our lists have been left in these kids have not been surrounded by an abundance of quality which means a good footballer at the Saints now has to try and be a great footballer.It would be interesting to see how some of these guys would have gone when we were playing finals and we were up and about. Unfortunately for the moment they only have each other to lean on so we can only hope this will stand them in good stead going forward. The quality around you creates the competitive environment which hopefully produces the performances required. One point that does stand out is they are all similar sized players with different attributes so it will come down to who can develope into a position and make it his own.

[spert]

I think if you put some of these youngsters in a top team, they would mostly look pretty good. We needed a lot more out of our more experienced players this season and it didn't help the younger ones to have to carry the load more than they should have. I'm not totally happy with the way AR put guys like Curren and Weller, into negating, blocking roles, although I presume he is trying to teach them responsibility, but it's not where I would go.. these players need to learn to take the game on and be more attacking, and I think Curren especially is being wasted in that role.

[gringo]

I think you just have to be patient. Most players need around 50 games to be consistent footballers and all have shown glimpses. It's easier to come in and be a good player when you are surrounded by good players. Exposed youth don't have the luxury of playing free clean footy. There were plenty down on Newnes and he's starting to prove that he has what it takes to be a good footballer. Ross, saunders, Webster etc have all shown improvement so we just have to watch and hope.

[saintjake]

Teams like Geelong and Hawthorn have the luxury of bringing in their kids a couple at a time and even giving them the Spencer White treatment and making them really deserve it in the VFL first.

Jack Steven and Armo both had this treatment, they came in as forward pockets and the world wasn't expected of them.

We have to be patient and relax and give this kids some time and some credits.. even if they aren't deserved yet.

We are still playing for the Lyon era where the kids weren't played.

[Royston]

Just a question about the Saints Murdoch vs his older brother at the Cats....his brother has some real speed that I have only noticed in parts this year.
Does the younger Murdoch have similar wheels that I haven't noticed as yet for a number of reasons...I haven't watched as closely, playing sub, actual games played, preparation, any ongoing injuries...
If he has the same sort of foot speed he is definately worth persisting with.

[saintspremiers]

Let's see what a full and properly planned pre season under Richo does.

The coaching team has had proper time to plan the program.

[Bardon Saint]

Siposs, Simpkin, Dunell are my main concerns. Siposs looked the goods but has gone awol this year. I'm a big fan of Simpkin but he's a KPP in the body of a flanker. Glimpses with Dunnell but I can't see him progressing. The 4 players in the OP have responded well to more game time granted bull could find the pill a bit more. I have hopes for Ross.

[bergholt]

Siposs, Simpkin, Dunell are my main concerns.

I'm not really concerned about any of those guys - I've written them off. Maybe with the exception of Siposs, who I think will get more chances next year even though it's hard to see him getting there from here.

[Saints94]

Just a question about the Saints Murdoch vs his older brother at the Cats....his brother has some real speed that I have only noticed in parts this year.
Does the younger Murdoch have similar wheels that I haven't noticed as yet for a number of reasons...I haven't watched as closely, playing sub, actual games played, preparation, any ongoing injuries...
If he has the same sort of foot speed he is definately worth persisting with.

IMO the game against Collingwood at Etihad, Murdoch was playing a sweeping role down back, getting 15 touches & I thought he did real good rebounding, as I see him playing there in the future as a Jimmy Webster clone..

[saintbrat]

Unconvincing or unreal expectations?

[Pleasing]

Ross has started to show some ability in close with good hands and vision but he has little physical presence in the packs and is a liability in open space where he is consistently caught in no mans land without the leg speed to recover. Maybe it is fitness but right now he is not athletically up to AFL not sure if he ever will be. Good players can overcome speed deficiencies by being smart about where they run and how they set up he hasn't shown that ability yet.

Saunders is just a bit scrappy the one thing in his favour is that he is quick and we have a very pedestrian midfield. I think others will pass him over the next 12 months if he can't be more constructive with the ball in hand.

Murdoch is a mystery he just doesn't get nearly enough of the footy. His brother seems quicker and more agile and consequently a much better player I think unless a tough preseason can reveal hidden athletic ability he will struggle. Really want him to succeed though he has a fantastic boot on him think he could be a really damaging player at either HB or HF if he can build his engine and get more of the ball.

Curren is currently reaching the ceiling of his ability IMO maybe he can be a good tagger but Weller seems better in that role, he is a good honest trier will get games when our side is weak but will be replaced long term by a better footballer.

Having said all that players often prove me wrong so fingers crossed these four do, all of them deserve at least another 12 months if not more, I thought Sam Fisher was a dud when he first played. At least given the state of our list these guys will be given every opportunity to succeed.

[Stephen Theodore]

Siposs, Simpkin, Dunell are my main concerns.

I'm not really concerned about any of those guys - I've written them off. Maybe with the exception of Siposs, who I think will get more chances next year even though it's hard to see him getting there from here.

I wouldn't right off Ross.

He's improved considerably since the start of the season, another pre season, a bigger motor next year, and l believe we'll have a player in him. Not saying he'll ever be an A. Grader, but I think he'll become a good contributor for our team.

[ShanghaiSaint]

agree on Ross, he's only getting better. keep him on.

[Saints94]

Siposs, Simpkin, Dunell are my main concerns.

I'm not really concerned about any of those guys - I've written them off. Maybe with the exception of Siposs, who I think will get more chances next year even though it's hard to see him getting there from here.

I wouldn't right off Ross.

He's improved considerably since the start of the season, another pre season, a bigger motor next year, and l believe we'll have a player in him. Not saying he'll ever be an A. Grader, but I think he'll become a good contributor for our team.

The game down @ Simmonds was a pass mark for me. 28 touches in a team that got smashed isn't anything to sneeze at.

[plugger66]

Facts are most players drafted where these guys were drafted will not become regulars. Someone said they would go better in a better side. I would suggest they would never get a game in a better side. One or two will make it but most will miss out. The one I have gone off a little is Wright. Hard nut but his kicking is terrible. Has it always been as bad as the last 2 weeks. I was a real rap for him in his first year but maybe I missed his poor skills.

[Saints94]

Facts are most players drafted where these guys were drafted will not become regulars. Someone said they would go better in a better side. I would suggest they would never get a game in a better side. One or two will make it but most will miss out. The one I have gone off a little is Wright. Hard nut but his kicking is terrible. Has it always been as bad as the last 2 weeks. I was a real rap for him in his first year but maybe I missed his poor skills.

It's always been his biggest weakness hence why he was taken at pick 24 etc. Imo his kicking last year was more cleaner than currently but it could be a confidence thing, coming back from injury & all. Tough as nails which is why I rate him but that can only get you so far..

More info on his kicking here: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-10/s ... ight-stuff

[SainterK]

I like Seb.

Siposs and Simpkin have contracts.

Why would we pay them out?

[plugger66]

I like Seb.

Siposs and Simpkin have contracts.

Why would we pay them out?

To get rid of them. Im unsure they will but if those 2 plus Milera have contracts i can see at least one going. Pretty poor list management for mine. None would have been wanted by other clubs so shorten the contract IMO but im sure there are reasons we dont know about.

[SainterK]

I don't get the contract lengths either, I think I'd keep Simpkin over Siposs....that's just opinion.

Dermie may talk up Siposs value on the market, he rates him.