Second most succesful coach!

[whiskers3614]

Depends how you measure success.

I would suggest George Sparrow.
Took us to a grand final in his first year after his predecessor finished with 11%winning ratio.
George's winning ratio overall was in the 50's when Saints were/had been laughing stock of VFL.
Closest rival was GT who also finished in the mid 50% range after taking over from 2legends whose combined stats were in the 20's.
Don't reckon 63% is all that great when placed in context!

[kosifantutti]

If only Grant Thomas had access to players like Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Milne, Montagna. Imagine how far he would have taken a list like that.

[bigcarl]

GT's record from 2004-2006 is actually superior to Lyon's.

When he wasn't tanking for draft picks he was a very effective coach.

That was once those young boys ... Riewoldt, Dal, BJ, Ball, Kosi etc ... started to come of age and grew into their bodies.

[Con Gorozidis]

If only Grant Thomas had access to players like Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Milne, Montagna. Imagine how far he would have taken a list like that.

that year port won. faaaaark . we could have won that

[kosifantutti]

GT's record from 2004-2006 is actually superior to Lyon's.

When he wasn't tanking for draft picks he was a very effective coach.

That was once those young boys ... Riewoldt, Dal, BJ, Ball, Kosi etc ... started to come of age and grew into their bodies.

Without doing the numbers I'd guess Lyon's 2008 - 2010 were better than GT's

[bigcarl]

GT's record from 2004-2006 is actually superior to Lyon's.

When he wasn't tanking for draft picks he was a very effective coach.

That was once those young boys ... Riewoldt, Dal, BJ, Ball, Kosi etc ... started to come of age and grew into their bodies.

Without doing the numbers I'd guess Lyon's 2008 - 2010 were better than GT's

One would hope so. The list (which GT largely assembled) was at its peak.

GT would have brought home the bacon.

[SaintPav]

GT's record from 2004-2006 is actually superior to Lyon's.

When he wasn't tanking for draft picks he was a very effective coach.

That was once those young boys ... Riewoldt, Dal, BJ, Ball, Kosi etc ... started to come of age and grew into their bodies.

Without doing the numbers I'd guess Lyon's 2008 - 2010 were better than GT's

One would hope so. The list (which GT largely assembled) was at its peak.

GT would have brought home the bacon.

I really doubt it. Tactically, he was really struggling and there is no way GT's free flowing style would have matched Geelong. We also couldn't overcome the flood and really struggled againtst teams like Port. 2004 was his best chance.

[plugger66]

GT's record from 2004-2006 is actually superior to Lyon's.

When he wasn't tanking for draft picks he was a very effective coach.

That was once those young boys ... Riewoldt, Dal, BJ, Ball, Kosi etc ... started to come of age and grew into their bodies.

Without doing the numbers I'd guess Lyon's 2008 - 2010 were better than GT's

One would hope so. The list (which GT largely assembled) was at its peak.

GT would have brought home the bacon.

Hammil, Penny, Powell, Goose at his best compared to Geary, Dempster, Jones and Eddy. GT had the list but was unlucky with injury. certainly a lot more depth in the mid 2000's.

[hungry for a premiership]

If only Grant Thomas had access to players like Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Milne, Montagna. Imagine how far he would have taken a list like that.

I beg your pardon???

GT DID have all those players.

PLUS he had hamill, gehrig, heath black, aussie jones, x clarke, Guerra, Voss, TS40, and Robert Harvey. Compare that to Eddy, Mcqualter, Raph, Jones, Ray, Armitage, Geary, Dempster and Polo.

The truth is the exact opposite to what you've said - if Ross Lyon had the 2004-05 list at his disposal, there is no doubt in the world he would have taken them to a flag. He would've instilled the defensive hardness that would've gotten us over the line in those prelims vs Port and Sydney, where we lead at 3 qtr time in both games but got run over the top of.

Imagine in '09 or '10 if we could replace Mcqualter with Hamill, Raph with Voss, Aussie Jones with Eddy, R Harvey with Armitage, Guerra with Polo, Heath Black with Geary, and Gehrig with Dempster. I can't believe some people really think Lyon had a better list at his disposal than Thomas. The '04-'05 list was the best list we've ever had, But GT blew it with his lack of match-day tactical nous and negligence toward keeping the list fit and uninjured.

FACT:
RL is our second greatest coach, in terms of on-field success anyway.

If you want to measure it by other means, then it can be debated. But if you're going purely by on-filed success, there can be no argument.

[Dr Spaceman]

If only Grant Thomas had access to players like Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Milne, Montagna. Imagine how far he would have taken a list like that.

I beg your pardon???

GT DID have all those players.

I think KF was being sarcastic, but of course I may be wrong.

[perfectionist]

Hammil, Penny, Powell, Goose at his best compared to Geary, Dempster, Jones and Eddy. GT had the list but was unlucky with injury. certainly a lot more depth in the mid 2000's.

Agree. And you left out one who wasn't there in 09/10, but in 04/05 - Robert Harvey.

[jonesy]

Hammil, Penny, Powell, Goose at his best compared to Geary, Dempster, Jones and Eddy. GT had the list but was unlucky with injury. certainly a lot more depth in the mid 2000's.

GT's injuries-Unlucky,or poor management?

[meher baba]

Hammil, Penny, Powell, Goose at his best compared to Geary, Dempster, Jones and Eddy. GT had the list but was unlucky with injury. certainly a lot more depth in the mid 2000's.

GT's injuries-Unlucky,or poor management?

Once upon a time, it was an article of faith among the one time Ross Lyon-worshippers on here that the injury problems that hampered us under GT were ultimately GT's fault, apparently because of some throwaway remark he once made about "training services".

But - despite the supposed genius of Dave Misson - our injury problems in 2011 were very similar to our experiences during the 2004-06.

The truth is that the patterns of injuries experienced by teams in AFL are largely a combination of luck and playing conditions. Obviouslyno amount of pre-game onditioning is going to protect a player against a broken limb or an ACL. And there is a fair amount of disagreement about what can be done to prevent hamstring strains and tears: perhaps conditioning helps a bit, or perhaps not. We have had a number of players through the club who were very prone to such injuries. Also, in the 2003-08 period the condition of the Docklands Stadium playing surface - where we play most of our games - was sub-standard: compare that to the lush surface of the SCG where the Swans have been virtually injury-free in some seasons.

I think it is a legitimate criticism that GT possibly played both Luke Ball and Kosi at times when perhaps he shouldn't have done. However, I am sure that both players were keen as mustard to play, and I'm also sure that many on here would have torn strips of GT and the club if they had kept these guys in the stands when they had declared themselves fit to play ("have they been dropped?" etc)

[Spinner]

Depends how you measure success.

I would suggest George Sparrow.
Took us to a grand final in his first year after his predecessor finished with 11%winning ratio.
George's winning ratio overall was in the 50's when Saints were/had been laughing stock of VFL.
Closest rival was GT who also finished in the mid 50% range after taking over from 2legends whose combined stats were in the 20's.
Don't reckon 63% is all that great when placed in context!

So I got from that, that 63% is not as good as 'mid 50% range'.

Excellent.

Saintsational - The forum that doesnt discriminate between all walks of life.

[whiskers3614]

Mid 50s is better than 100% on previous seasons.
63 is a 10% lift on 57%
Assesments based on win/loss ratio compared to immediate predecessors.

[kosifantutti]

If only Grant Thomas had access to players like Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Dal Santo, Milne, Montagna. Imagine how far he would have taken a list like that.

I beg your pardon???

GT DID have all those players.

I think KF was being sarcastic, but of course I may be wrong.

I think you're right but I may be wrong.

[desertsaint]

Who really cares who's second. I await our most successful coach. And wait and wait...
Re GT - did a great job, but his time was up, ultimately fell short. Re Lyon - did a great job, but his time was up, ultimately fell short. One will always be a saint at heart, the other a mercenary.

[whiskers3614]

and FREO are lucky to have him!

[plugger66]

Hammil, Penny, Powell, Goose at his best compared to Geary, Dempster, Jones and Eddy. GT had the list but was unlucky with injury. certainly a lot more depth in the mid 2000's.

GT's injuries-Unlucky,or poor management?

Lack of money. Easy to blame GT but he hardly had any help at all.

[whiskers3614]

Come on Plugger,
I don't have a plus 1 option on my keyboard.
Not normal for us to agree!

[plugger66]

Come on Plugger,
I don't have a plus 1 option on my keyboard.
Not normal for us to agree!

Always was a GT fan and became an RL fan.

[whiskers3614]

Ok I will partially agree this time.
but respect your opinion just the same.

[saintsRrising]

Difference between GT and RL.

GT got within a bee's dick of getting into a GF. Against the Power past their peak. IMO with a stronger list.

RL got within a bee's dick of winning TWO GF's. Against quite possibly the best team ever in the cats at the height of their powers, and against the Pies in a year where they were exceptional. IMO with a weaker list.

[saintsRrising]

Lack of money. Easy to blame GT but he hardly had any help at all.

I was a fan of GT in his early years. But then the job became more to him than the club despite his rhetoric otherwise.

While yes restricted in in support early on, when funds improved he actively resisted positive changes that the Board wanted and other clubs were implementing.

ie Bomber was not consulted about the Balme appointment, and was furious at the time. Only later admitting that it was a great improvement

GT was all about him being No 1...and in control of all.

His approach is the polar opposite of Lyon and now Watters who is happy concentrate o being a COACH and to devolve power and responsibilities to others and to work under a Football Director in Pelchen. This is 100% opposite to GT's philosophy.

MB will no doubt trot out as he did in the last Lyon thread points like Drain not working out, but this is no different than a player not working out.

ON DRAIN... I APPLAUDED the Saints move to allow the Coach to Coach by expanding the football department...and to broaden the football department. What the Saints have done recently just EXTENDS this philosophy...but you are blind to that.

Just because Drain did not work out, does not mean that the philosophy behind his appointment was wrong. For it was not...it was the right call...and again one that GT was vocal against. The modern football department structures are a vast improvement.

Bomber left the Cats and they did not blink. Why? Because they had systemised their football department and spread the load....and do many MANY things very VERY well. Not least of which is Football Department and Board all pulling in the same direction.

Personally I am most pleased that the Saints have since mid last year been actively working to make us a much more professional off-field team.

[skeptic]

Difference between GT and RL.

GT got within a bee's dick of getting into a GF. Against the Power past their peak. IMO with a stronger list.

yep... they were past their peak when they won the premiership