hard decisions to be made about backline

JABBER · Post: # 745311Post **JABBER** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:07pm

in the next few weeks i can see four changes to our backline the best backline in the leaugue we can only get better.

Max ,Goose , Gram ,Dempster are in our best 22 and will be in the big games .I keep Fisher and gilbert down there and the other players down there will find new roles

plugger66 · Post: # 745317Post **plugger66** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:09pm

JABBER wrote:in the next few weeks i can see four changes to our backline the best backline in the leaugue we can only get better.

Max ,Goose , Gram ,Dempster are in our best 22 and will be in the big games .I keep Fisher and gilbert down there and the other players down there will find new roles

Baring injury those 4 wouldnt all play in the backline this year. Gram will play and probably Max but Dempster would be very doubtful and Goose will need an injury to a backman.

JABBER · Post: # 745323Post **JABBER** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:14pm

I herd on the radio Dempster was getting over his injury and is running i forgot about zac Dawson so gilbert can push as a third forward or the goose

plugger66 · Post: # 745326Post **plugger66** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:17pm

JABBER wrote:I herd on the radio Dempster was getting over his injury and is running i forgot about zac Dawson so gilbert can push as a third forward or the goose

So you want to replace nearly our best backman with a guy who is an honest trier and been out of the game for nearly a year.

joffaboy · Post: # 745330Post **joffaboy** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:32pm

JABBER wrote:in the next few weeks i can see four changes to our backline the best backline in the leaugue we can only get better.

Oh FFS - we have the best defence by nearly 170 points ( or by an average of over three goals a game) and an average score against of 59 which is under ten goals a game....

....AND YOU WANT TO MAKE FOUR CHANGES TO IT!!!!

What in hell are you on?

What type of idiocy is this???

degruch · Post: # 745333Post **degruch** » Mon 25 May 2009 4:35pm

Steady on guys...it was only a suggestion. I agree, not a great one IMO, but don't pop a valve over it.

kaos theory · Mon 25 May 2009 5:08pm

I only see two players who are definates to come in:
- Gram
- Maxy

Gram doesn't play back that much anyway, These days he gets up on the wing a fair bit more and takes a run through the midfield. Maxy's value is obvious.

Goose is no certainty. Lacks mobility these days, and probably could play a role on the forward line more than the backline. Dempster has not played a game for 9+ months. He is a long way off imo. Probably more a backup for this yr.

These guys are playing great football in the back half, and are key in setting up attacking plays. You can't replace them easily:
- Gilbert
- Fisher
- Goddard (also plays mids)

These guys are playing great supporting roles down back, but one or two of these could potentially lose a spot:
- Dawson (started slowly, but gets better each week)
- Blake (very good early, just ok lately)
- Baker (good early, but has been poor lately)
- Raph (first game back, will get a lot better with more runs at top level)

So, only gram & Maxy to come in, and two guys to squeeze out...It wont happen all this week, but over next 2 to 3 weeks...

older saint · Mon 25 May 2009 5:09pm

Max is the only automatic change to this backline.

Goose is not what he was and may never be so defintely not in our best 22 at this stage.

Stingiest defence in the league - forget the names and go on what has actually happened

iwantmeseats · Mon 25 May 2009 5:31pm

joffaboy wrote:
JABBER wrote:in the next few weeks i can see four changes to our backline the best backline in the leaugue we can only get better.
Oh FFS - we have the best defence by nearly 170 points ( or by an average of over three goals a game) and an average score against of 59 which is under ten goals a game....

....AND YOU WANT TO MAKE FOUR CHANGES TO IT!!!!

What in hell are you on?

What type of idiocy is this???

hard to argue with that, have to agree myself.

spert · Post: # 745361Post **spert** » Mon 25 May 2009 5:33pm

Despite what some are saying, I think a fit Gram is a vital cog in our team with his line-breaking play, so for me an auto selection. I would want Max to have another couple of games in the VFL before he can break into the best defence in the league. When a team is winning, you don't tinker with it..and not every win will be a lop-sided one in our favour -some will be tight. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

Schillaci · Post: # 745376Post **Schillaci** » Mon 25 May 2009 6:01pm

kaos theory wrote:I only see two players who are definates to come in:
- Gram
- Maxy
.

Agreed

rexy · Post: # 745378Post **rexy** » Mon 25 May 2009 6:03pm

Dont consider Gram a backman any more, he is a wingman/midfielder who can drop back and help out if needed. No different to Dal.

Dan Warna · Post: # 745486Post **Dan Warna** » Mon 25 May 2009 8:30pm

16 shots at goal 10 from outside 50 and 3 from free kicks...

really the defence stood up well on the weekend.

if EVERY week our D makes the opposition shoot outside the 50 arc or from the pockets they are doing their job.

noob · Post: # 745598Post **noob** » Mon 25 May 2009 10:33pm

why would you change a winning team?

JABBER · Post: # 745792Post **JABBER** » Tue 26 May 2009 12:48pm

you pick your best players in big games. I wrote we got the best defence in the leaugue at the moment but to improve the side we can play better players in that role.People think im crazy by saying we should have Max Goose Dawson Gram Fisher Gilbert and Dempster in our backline with either gosse or gilbert as a third tall forward players like Blake can play roles up the ground because he s got a big tank.

Loyal · Post: # 745801Post **Loyal** » Tue 26 May 2009 1:02pm

is it fair to suggest that rapho and jimmy are similar in nature?
can we pidgeonhole them as being in the same mould as players?

spert · Post: # 745808Post **spert** » Tue 26 May 2009 1:21pm

Nine wins in a row and we are looking for someone to drop?? We got there by being a team and everyone does their bit. Unless someone is injured, you just don't tamper with it

Life Long Saint · Tue 26 May 2009 1:30pm

spert wrote:Nine wins in a row and we are looking for someone to drop?? We got there by being a team and everyone does their bit. Unless someone is injured, you just don't tamper with it

Regardless of who is out?

Just shows the depth we have...We still have our BEST defender to come in. Blake/Dawson does not fill me with confidence on Johnson/Mooney or Franklin/Roughead. Max must play for those games. In fact, I'd be keen to get him in for the Carlton game.

The pressure is on those in the senior side to play well enough to keep their spot.

What if Roo was returning from injury and someone was doing a serviceable job in his absence? Would you keep Roo running around for Sandy until we lose a senior game? Only a fool would.

If you don't think that you could improve a winning side by adding a better player or a different player for a better fit then you are kidding yourself.

Stephen Theodore · Tue 26 May 2009 1:35pm

I really dont understand the theory that Dawson will get dropped for Maxy. Wont happen, you cant drop Zac on current form for anyone. He's getting better by the week as his confidence goes up. The backline has been watertight all season so far.
NO CHANGES

bigcarl · Post: # 745816Post **bigcarl** » Tue 26 May 2009 1:39pm

Stephen Theodore wrote:you cant drop Zac on current form for anyone.

agree. if max comes in it will have to be for someone else ... on current form.

saintsRrising · Tue 26 May 2009 1:39pm

A large part of the reason why we have the best "defence" in 2009 is not just our back-six, but rather is the defensive pressure that the whole team is applying.

someone such as Gilvbert for example couldif moved forward also be applying great defensive pressure in the forward liand midfield zones.

Cats will bea hard task for us.

Hawks by the end of the year will be better.
Newxt time we play the Dogs they will most prbably be better.

Other teams we should have space on...though watch out for the Dons (like us they have improved massoively this year).

What this means is if we want to be the best team in 2009, that we need to play our best 22.

Max is most likely to still be in that.

Gram I would expect to be. Plus with Gram we need his pace.

Goose I do not know about...but would like to see him tried at some stage to see if he is.

Dempster based on last years form would be...but remember that post acl that it might take him till 2010 to recapture that form.

On the other hand we will most likely have an injury or two sooner or later.

marksnsparks · Tue 26 May 2009 1:48pm

We over-tinker with our defence at our peril IMO. These guys have settled and have had time to know how each other plays.

I wouldn't change more than one at a time unless forced to by injury...and definitely not 4 in one go...that would be suicide.

saint75 · Post: # 745820Post **saint75** » Tue 26 May 2009 1:48pm

I would add Max so that Fisher is freed up more. Would not drop Zac, but would drop Raph. Even though it was only Raph's first game back, he did not do enough to hold his spot. If you want to hold a spot in this team, you have to earn it. When you get the opportunity to play in the team, you have to make the most of it and as much as it pains me to say, he just did not do enough. He would have made our team easily last year on his performance last weekend, but not in this years team.

Looking at Baker and Blake, they both seem to be carrying a possible niggling injury....?? Drop one or both of them for a week and give someone else a run till they are fit again.

Definitely wouldn't drop Gwilt on the back of the game he played last weekend. He wasn't spectacular, but he did enough when it counted.

Definitely consider giving Goose a run, even just to see how he fits into the team and to see whether there is still a place for him. He has been playing exceptionally well for Sandringham so I think it is time to see whether he can take it to that next level. We need to get an idea of whether he is able to perform at the elite level, if not, he may need to go next year.

Gram is a no brainer. His run off the half back is important. He will be back and tipping a big game for him this weekend.

marksnsparks · Tue 26 May 2009 1:51pm

saint75 wrote:I would add Max so that Fisher is freed up more. Would not drop Zac, but would drop Raph. Even though it was only Raph's first game back, he did not do enough to hold his spot. If you want to hold a spot in this team, you have to earn it. When you get the opportunity to play in the team, you have to make the most of it and as much as it pains me to say, he just did not do enough. He would have made our team easily last year on his performance last weekend, but not in this years team.

Looking at Baker and Blake, they both seem to be carrying a possible niggling injury....?? Drop one or both of them for a week and give someone else a run till they are fit again.

Definitely wouldn't drop Gwilt on the back of the game he played last weekend. He wasn't spectacular, but he did enough when it counted.

Definitely consider giving Goose a run, even just to see how he fits into the team and to see whether there is still a place for him. He has been playing exceptionally well for Sandringham so I think it is time to see whether he can take it to that next level. We need to get an idea of whether he is able to perform at the elite level, if not, he may need to go next year.

Gram is a no brainer. His run off the half back is important. He will be back and tipping a big game for him this weekend.

I think you're being hard on Raph. It takes a couple of games back at the elite level to get used to the pace of the game again. Loved his work last year and we should persist....

bigcarl · Post: # 745827Post **bigcarl** » Tue 26 May 2009 1:55pm

saint75 wrote:I would drop Raph. Even though it was only Raph's first game back, he did not do enough to hold his spot. If you want to hold a spot in this team, you have to earn it. When you get the opportunity to play in the team, you have to make the most of it and as much as it pains me to say, he just did not do enough.

apart from the one howler, raph (who i think is in our best team) had some nice touches.

we had quite a few players down who are probably more deserving of a rest.

i agree that gram in is a no-brainer. i'm sure he will have learnt a lesson from his disciplinary brain fade.