Mods: Please start Richmond Eating Our Own Page

[widereceiver]

I visit this site for some insight into games and player and injury news. It’s supposed to be, by name, a fan forum. I am utterly enraged by the number of morons who continually pot our own players, the lesser lights of a good side. You know, the goddamned Dumpsters.
The Gwilt brigade
The Blake bashers
The Raph riff-raff
The Jonestown massacreites
The Baker lights
et al.

These players will probably never reach the heights of our stars, they are contributors to a greater or lesser extent from week to week. Our expectation of them should be based on what they actually bring to the game, not on some puerile fantasy world where no Saints player ever stuffs up and every one gets three Brownlow votes in every round.

Yesterday, we played a team we haven’t beaten for a few years and, who had set themselves to measure their progress against the top of the ladder Saints. Among our star players, BJ’s disposal was off on several occasions, NDS hardly had a sniff till the last quarter and Kosi kicked four goals on a debutante, but did little else. So what? Many of the posts are manifestly incorrect when reviewed with the replay. Where is the perspective of these halfwits who are calling for mass changes of a side which has won eight, now nine, games in a row?

The answer is they have no sense of perspective and so, respectfully, may I suggest a separate page for those who come on here to bag our own players. A place for the Gwilt-bashers where they can stew in their own pathetic poison.
I’d put it under the Saintsational Fan Forum and call it
The Faint of Heart Tiger Eating Our Own page
Or if you think the morons would get the point
INFIRMITAS QUO INFIDELITAS Weakness through faithlessness

[rexy]

would have thought the art of discussion was based around people talking over different points of view on a common subject.

Perhaps we could start a care bears page for those who would like to come on and say I am just happy that we are 9-0 and that is my only observation of the game.

Add that to your page and then all the black and white people would have somewhere to go and the rest of us who can discuss issues without getting emotional and name calling can get on with the discussion.

[mordi]

The bloke near me yesterday (in Saints reserved seats) continually called out "Richo" when Roo missed shots early on. Questioned how we wasted $1 million contract on him!!

His son bagged Milney constantly..........

But both were not heard in last quarter as the focus of their scorn won us the game...

...and to top off Roo was sick as a dog......

How can any right minded Saints supporter compare Roo to Richo !!??

[rexy]

The bloke near me yesterday (in Saints reserved seats) continually called out "Richo" when Roo missed shots early on. Questioned how we wasted $1 million contract on him!!

His son bagged Milney constantly..........

But both were not heard in last quarter as the focus of their scorn won us the game...

...and to top off Roo was sick as a dog......

How can any right minded Saints supporter compare Roo to Richo !!??

Furthermore, How could any right minded person think it an insult to be compared to a man who has kicked 800 goals in a stellar career. Roo is a champion and Richo is too. A good comparison from this spectator but used in poor context.

[mordi]

Obvioulsy I am biased Rexy........

I think the term "Champion" is used to often........

I think Richo has been very good over 10+ years , but he falls at the last hurdle too often when needed.

Roo's effort to play sick, and then kick a crunch goal in the last quarter is defining of a Champion....... but as I say, I am biased.

[bergholt]

I visit this site for some insight into games and player and injury news. It’s supposed to be, by name, a fan forum. I am utterly enraged by the number of morons who continually pot our own players, the lesser lights of a good side.

if i can summarise your post:

Supporters should SUPPORT and not THINK. Leave the thinking to the COACH! He's NEVER wrong. Praise EVERYTHING the club does. Praise everything ANY PLAYER does. Unquestioning loyalty AT ALL TIMES!

reminds me of my days in the soviet union.


by the way, if you think max should come back in at some point, how will you decide who to drop for max? all the players are pefect! none of them can be dropped ever! but one of the perfect players is in the reserves. hmm, a quandary.

maybe the best thing to do is to play 23 players and hope the league doesn't notice. wouldn't want to have to judge one of the players as being in worse form than the others.

[roxanne]

It's not always about being dropped because you're not performing. Sometimes it's about balance, about a bigger picture.
Anyway, there will always be supporters who enjoy bagging players, that's their way of enjoying the game and maybe enjoying this forum. I don't get it but each to his own.

[evertonfc]

Geez, this isn't a house of mindless worship. The day it is, it should be closed down.

I love the Saints, but I want a premiership. If that means we're putting a few blokes under pressure, fine.

It's an absolutely privilege to wear the jumper of the St Kilda FC. Never forget that.

[spert]

Just a reminder that I have started to have a go at Ball -see the Gwilt bashing posts

[Life Long Saint]

How can any right minded Saints supporter compare Roo to Richo !!??

They both wear number 12!

[Milton66]

Although a touch extreme in its expression, the OP raises a valid point.

We should be able to discuss options, and exchange views.

But I can also see the point of the OP.

what appears obvious, is that there are a particular group of players who cop it everytime we lose. What is more pathetic is that we didn't actually lose.

So now we get the "you're accepting mediocrity" argument for people to justify their argument. Weak option.

2 poitns:

1- no one is saying that we're 100% and can't get better. What is disturbing is that the criticism of certain players goes beyond intelligant analysis of their flaws and how they can improve.

2- some people are simply clueless in that their posts come across in a manner which suggests we should have 22 "guns" in our team, which is impossible. Everyone has a role to play, and until we know 100% what that role is, then let's not be too harsh on players.

If we want to drop players after 1 or 2 average games, then we're stuffed, because we'd have some big names being dropped every other week. Why not drop Milne? Apart from the last, he did SFA.

As I posted on another thread, people want players dropped so that we can see what other players have to offer.

So we hsould reward the players inSandy. Yet we don't mind telling senior players that despite all the hard work they've put in to crack a senior spot and keep it, we're going to drop you anyway to see if someone else can do better than you.

[widereceiver]

I visit this site for some insight into games and player and injury news. It’s supposed to be, by name, a fan forum. I am utterly enraged by the number of morons who continually pot our own players, the lesser lights of a good side.

if i can summarise your post:

Supporters should SUPPORT and not THINK. Leave the thinking to the COACH! He's NEVER wrong. Praise EVERYTHING the club does. Praise everything ANY PLAYER does. Unquestioning loyalty AT ALL TIMES!

reminds me of my days in the soviet union.


by the way, if you think max should come back in at some point, how will you decide who to drop for max? all the players are pefect! none of them can be dropped ever! but one of the perfect players is in the reserves. hmm, a quandary.

maybe the best thing to do is to play 23 players and hope the league doesn't notice. wouldn't want to have to judge one of the players as being in worse form than the others.

It appears you can't summarise my post.
What I said was it's unworthy to bag our players. It's not about blind loyalty and I don't think the team should remain unchanged. On the other hand, at 9-0 I am pretty happy with the coaching staff's thinking and strategies. Your days in the Soviet Union might have been spent more profitably in English class.
FYI Max is a hero at our place and we look forward to his return. Who goes out for him? Our current full back has been doing well, so perhaps Max slots in as a faster option to further release Chips and Gilbo. Don't know.
With regard to Goose, I'm not as sure his performance at VFL level equates to an immediate return. I don't think he is quick enough to be a flanker. As they say in the racing pages - Keep safe.

[widereceiver]

Geez, this isn't a house of mindless worship. The day it is, it should be closed down.

I love the Saints, but I want a premiership. If that means we're putting a few blokes under pressure, fine.

It's an absolutely privilege to wear the jumper of the St Kilda FC. Never forget that.

Who proposed Sational was for mindless worship? Not I.

If it's a privilege to wear the jumper, I would think some of the missed shots on goal yesterday were the biggest breach. As everybody's first coach said, Bad kicking is bad football...

We all want a premiership, obviously, even the dumpsters.

[widereceiver]

Extreme? I thought moderate.

As I posted on another thread, people want players dropped so that we can see what other players have to offer.

So we hsould reward the players inSandy. Yet we don't mind telling senior players that despite all the hard work they've put in to crack a senior spot and keep it, we're going to drop you anyway to see if someone else can do better than you.

Good point, I think there are a few players out who should be in our best 22. A premiership will be won with the contributions of at least another 6 players of various abilities. Those who get the flick deserve more respect than the Dumpsters mindlessly deny them.

[bergholt]

FYI Max is a hero at our place and we look forward to his return. Who goes out for him? Our current full back has been doing well, so perhaps Max slots in as a faster option to further release Chips and Gilbo. Don't know.

you haven't answered my question. who goes out for him?

[widereceiver]

you haven't answered my question. who goes out for him?

Against Geelong? Against Hawthorn? Against Melbourne?
It depends on the match-ups.
If he's ready to go, he could be in next week. Melbourne are next, I don't know much about them, but don't think they are tall, so probably Bakes.

I did see the Blake get a hard knock on his shoulder, he may be rested.

[marksnsparks]

I suspect the OP manufactued this thread to show off his command of Latin.

What is latin for troll?

[bergholt]

Good point, I think there are a few players out who should be in our best 22. A premiership will be won with the contributions of at least another 6 players of various abilities. Those who get the flick deserve more respect than the Dumpsters mindlessly deny them.

ah, ok. so there are players in the side who could be dropped. but, apparently, on an anonymous internet forum, we should show "respect" in some way. is this respect in the Don Corleone sense? in the Rodney Dangerfield sense? what does it even mean in this context?

if you can see players to bring into the side, surely you must also be able to see players who could go out for them. please explain who those players are - and make sure you show "respect" when you do it.

[widereceiver]

ah, ok. so there are players in the side who could be dropped. but, apparently, on an anonymous internet forum, we should show "respect" in some way. is this respect in the Don Corleone sense? in the Rodney Dangerfield sense? what does it even mean in this context?

if you can see players to bring into the side, surely you must also be able to see players who could go out for them. please explain who those players are - and make sure you show "respect" when you do it.

Respect, like decency, is a scarce quality these days, so it's easy to mock. Apparently to you, anonymity means anyone has the right to say anything, no matter how stupid. I will have to accept that, while trying to avoid obvious negative posts.

IMO, for us to win a premiership, the players who are indispensable (in no particular order after 12) are
12, 7, 25, 8, 11, 18, 44, 23, 19.

Players who are important, if fit and firing for four quarters are 14, 1, 38, 27, 2, 13, 22, 10, 43 and 26.

The rest of our list, respectfully, make up the rest of the side.

Speaking of respect, I was not good enough to play at this level. Neither, I thought was #16, Kane Taylor. I do respect his efforts though.

[Milton66]

I get where the OP is coming from. If being anonymous means that you can insult people without repersussions, then that's a coward's way.

Sure, let's debate a player's merit, but let's do it in less vitriolic terms.

IMO if you don't have the guts to repeat comments to someone's face, then it shows more about the commentor than the player.

[widereceiver]

Thanks, and I'm sure I saw you stuck in the Waverly car park!

[GrumpyOne]

What is latin for troll?

Turpis Humanus amo creatura ut ago sub a pontus

[backit]

What is latin for troll?

Turpis Humanus amo creatura ut ago sub a pontus

Belua = a huge, monstrous creature

Added:

From Cicero: Fera et immanis belua = A fierce and savage monster.

[bergholt]

Respect, like decency, is a scarce quality these days, so it's easy to mock. Apparently to you, anonymity means anyone has the right to say anything, no matter how stupid. I will have to accept that, while trying to avoid obvious negative posts.

i don't think it means that anyone has the right to say anything, necessarily, but it does mean that no-one - players or coaches included - should take too seriously anything said here. as Milton66 intimated, many nasty things are said on here which wouldn't be said face-to-face. that doesn't make them untrue, but it also doesn't make them true - and it certainly doesn't make them at all defensible.

leaving out the obvious stupidity though, when i said "anonymous internet forum", what i was attempting to imply was that there's a certain low level of debate which seems to come from the lack of faces and names. it s***s me no end to see people making stupid claims which aren't backed up by facts. or to see people saying that you can't question the coach simply because he's the coach. or to see people dredging up old arguments - anything involving GT, for instance.

conversely, i have great respect for those who can discuss things civilly and intelligently despite the anonymity. i'm pleasantly surprised, for instance, with your reasoned debate in this thread. thank you for that.

but i still don't agree with (what i see as) the premise of the thread - that it's not ok to criticise those who play badly. but i do agree that going beyond the facts and saying things like "he'll never be an afl player" is uncalled for and unproductive.

IMO, for us to win a premiership, the players who are indispensable (in no particular order after 12) are
12, 7, 25, 8, 11, 18, 44, 23, 19.

i'm not sure i put 19 in that group, but the rest agreed.

Players who are important, if fit and firing for four quarters are 14, 1, 38, 27, 2, 13, 22, 10, 43 and 26.

i'd definitely have 26 in the top group ahead of (or alongside) 11. 27's not in this group for me, 2 is replaced with 15, and i'm not sure about 43 yet and 10 on current form.

The rest of our list, respectfully, make up the rest of the side.

so the obvious few in this group are 20, 17, 16, 3, 24, 40, 42, 33, 31, 5, 32, 45.

i agree with all of those.

so the players in that last group are who i concentrate on when watching and analyzing games, because there's only 19 in the top two groups and i agree with the cliche that it's the bottom few win you premierships. criticising hayes for a bad game seems pointless and knee-jerk, but criticising eddy (for instance) for a few bad games - and maybe calling for his dropping - would seem to be logical and productive for the team.

(though obviously it has no real effect other than to make me feel better, because the selection committee better not be taking their opinions from saintsational.)

Speaking of respect, I was not good enough to play at this level. Neither, I thought was #16, Kane Taylor. I do respect his efforts though.

i wasn't good enough to play at any level above under-15s. i respect those who make it all the way as much as i respect any who've risen to the top of their profession through merit. which is a fair bit. but, unluckily for them, getting near the top changes the standards by which they can and should be judged.

[widereceiver]

so the obvious few in this group are 20, 17, 16, 3, 24, 40, 42, 33, 31, 5, 32, 45.

i agree with all of those.

so the players in that last group are who i concentrate on when watching and analyzing games, because there's only 19 in the top two groups and i agree with the cliche that it's the bottom few win you premierships. criticising hayes for a bad game seems pointless and knee-jerk, but criticising eddy (for instance) for a few bad games - and maybe calling for his dropping - would seem to be logical and productive for the team.
I agree

(though obviously it has no real effect other than to make me feel better, because the selection committee better not be taking their opinions from saintsational.)

Mostly fair comments, I appreciate your reasoned response. I want to reiterate that it is not my position that any member of the current side is invulnerable to the axe. I defended RL when he axed 26 and 44 after the Sydney game and thought others were lucky.

It is more interesting to me to debate the relative merits of our selections. I meant to have 15 in our indispensible list, apologies for that. (and you omitted 6, who may have to assume a role at some point, but is definitely in the rest.)

The reason I did not include 26 in my indispensible group is he still goes missing. I don't see him as a leader although on his day he is a most sublime player to watch. He is more skilled than 11 but I have watched Joey's progression from receiver to generator with pleasure.

I am somewhat red-faced that 14 isn't in the top list. He is a leader and has as much courage as anyone I've watched. His kicking skills are just going and he still is inclined to hold up our flow as if he was still playing for Xavier, where you have those nanoseconds to decide where to put the pill.

27, who is a favourite target for the dumpsters, gets in the second list for the sole reason he is a utility. I don't want to debate his speed, skills or anything else. He is the only player we have who can fill so many roles on a given day.

I do agree with your view that the bottom half dozen are key to our success and I think we have improved in that area, I still have memories of '97. Whether it's enough to beat Geelong or Hawthorn remains to be seen.

I have endured the window-closing crap from other supporters for a few years, while daring to hope it was not so. This year is the best chance we'll have for a long time. I hope our guys are up to it.