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Enrico_Misso wrote:King makes good contributions in the ruck.
And around the ground he is not afraid to present for a mark.
But once the ball hits the deck he ambles around at half pace and never commits to agressive tackles.
There were a number of times today when he just trotted past a contested situation when if he had committed himself he could have been the extra body in the contest to win a turn over.
With Gardiner playing so well I feel we would be better off blooding McEvoy.
Least he looks committed.
Well you've certainly created some good discussion with this thread.
I think you just have to understand that he's more of an old school ruckman. His major strength is his ruck work and his size. However he does actually do a lot of hard work around the stoppages too. What I like about him is that he throws his weight around. He'll jump into a pack after the umpire has blown the whistle just to make body contact with an opposition midfielder. And as many have pointed out he does do his fair share of tackling in close.
A few people around me shared your concerns when it appeared that he wasn't chasing and working hard but it's just not his game. It did look like he was in slow motion on a couple of occassions but he was just made to look slow by opposition midfielders who probably have 3 or 4 times the pace and endurance. You have to remember how much energy you expend in ruck contests. Him and Gardiner were basically getting jumped on by Brennan and Clark for a lot of the game. And yet what was the total clearances for the game? 50-20 our way.
Enrico_Misso wrote:King makes good contributions in the ruck.
And around the ground he is not afraid to present for a mark.
But once the ball hits the deck he ambles around at half pace and never commits to agressive tackles.
There were a number of times today when he just trotted past a contested situation when if he had committed himself he could have been the extra body in the contest to win a turn over.
With Gardiner playing so well I feel we would be better off blooding McEvoy.
Least he looks committed.
I agree, I'd drop him for McEvoy, get some game time into the young fella so he has some more experience if he is required come finals time.
saintsRrising wrote:Maybe ask our mids who they would like as their ruckmen this year?
I think they would vote for Gardi and King.
King's mature body and strength in tight contests should not be underestimated.
Yes Gardi has gone past him...and this is one reason why we are better in 2009.
But King is still better than McEvoy.
McEvoy's time will come..but maybe not for year or two...and then probably 5 to 10 years on the trot.
agree completely with this post. King's tapwork, experience and physical presence are really valuable. No way I'd be considering breaking up the balance of Gardy and King if not forced to.
Thread started clearly by somone who has never played football and has little to none understanding of the game. Kings positioning across half back is crucial and his clearance work is fantastic.
CURLY wrote:Thread started clearly by somone who has never played football and has little to none understanding of the game. Kings positioning across half back is crucial and his clearance work is fantastic.
POOR THREAD.
Thanks for the positive feedback Curly
I still feel now is a good time to blood Big Mac.
Get some games into him in case we need him in September.
Give him some experience and benefit from his enthusiasm.
I would certainly do a Bomber Thompson and play King in September.
But for the Melb, North and Richmond games - Bring Mac Back.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
CURLY wrote:Thread started clearly by somone who has never played football and has little to none understanding of the game. Kings positioning across half back is crucial and his clearance work is fantastic.
POOR THREAD.
Thanks for the positive feedback Curly
I still feel now is a good time to blood Big Mac.
Get some games into him in case we need him in September.
Give him some experience and benefit from his enthusiasm.
I would certainly do a Bomber Thompson and play King in September.
But for the Melb, North and Richmond games - Bring Mac Back.
So we rest a very important player to see what Big Ben can do? Dont worry about the 15 grand he will miss out on by not playing. How will that help King? It will not. Ben will get his chance when injury, poor form or suspension occurs. No resting players IMO. We have a bye in 3 weeks anyway.
CURLY wrote:Thread started clearly by somone who has never played football and has little to none understanding of the game. Kings positioning across half back is crucial and his clearance work is fantastic.
POOR THREAD.
Thanks for the positive feedback Curly
I still feel now is a good time to blood Big Mac.
Get some games into him in case we need him in September.
Give him some experience and benefit from his enthusiasm.
I would certainly do a Bomber Thompson and play King in September.
But for the Melb, North and Richmond games - Bring Mac Back.
So we rest a very important player to see what Big Ben can do? Dont worry about the 15 grand he will miss out on by not playing. How will that help King? It will not. Ben will get his chance when injury, poor form or suspension occurs. No resting players IMO. We have a bye in 3 weeks anyway.
Agree. Theres a bit of "its only Melbourne/Richmond/North" creeping into a few threads. Yeah we will start favorites but "resting" players in alleged "gimme" games is nonsense. Is patronising to the opposition, gives them extra incentive and sends a message to the football world that we are cocky.
Theres a bit of "its only Melbourne/Richmond/North" creeping into a few threads. Yeah we will start favorites but "resting" players in alleged "gimme" games is nonsense. Is patronising to the opposition, gives them extra incentive and sends a message to the football world that we are cocky.
suppose its a 'greater good' issue
blend experience and enthusiasm while we can ,
with no heed to the perceptions imo
just when we are playing well, and one of our strengths are our clearances due to the rucks we have, and people want to change that!
i understand wanting time into mcevoy, but in the current environment, he has to earn it, not be given it. that'll keep him hungry, as well as send the right message out.
The very fact that so many on this site bagged Gardiner showed exactly how much experience they have in matters footy.
The game starts in the ruck.
And now we have two genuine, class ruckmen.
It is not just the taps or the marks or the handballs or the tackles, it is also about making a presence in the contests and using big bodies to create space and opportunity - without necessarily touching the ball and gaining a statistic.
saint66au wrote:Agree. Theres a bit of "its only Melbourne/Richmond/North" creeping into a few threads. Yeah we will start favorites but "resting" players in alleged "gimme" games is nonsense. Is patronising to the opposition, gives them extra incentive and sends a message to the football world that we are cocky.
I think with the ever quickening pace of the game that it is only a matter of time before we start rotating our midfielders not just though the bench but out of the team for a rest.
They are doing that in the Premier League.
They do that with pitchers in Baseball.
We will wind up doing it here.
Initially by resting older players to preserve them.
And eventually, as the game gets faster, our midfield unit will get 3 games on - one game off, on a staggered rotation.
Evolution.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
saint66au wrote:Agree. Theres a bit of "its only Melbourne/Richmond/North" creeping into a few threads. Yeah we will start favorites but "resting" players in alleged "gimme" games is nonsense. Is patronising to the opposition, gives them extra incentive and sends a message to the football world that we are cocky.
I think with the ever quickening pace of the game that it is only a matter of time before we start rotating our midfielders not just though the bench but out of the team for a rest.
They are doing that in the Premier League.
They do that with pitchers in Baseball.
We will wind up doing it here.
Initially by resting older players to preserve them.
And eventually, as the game gets faster, our midfield unit will get 3 games on - one game off, on a staggered rotation.
Evolution.
I agree but there will be some angst between players and managers on one side vs the CLubs over the performance based contracts that currently exist.
There are going to have to be contract arrangements made to allow this type of evolution.
To the top wrote:The very fact that so many on this site bagged Gardiner showed exactly how much experience they have in matters footy.
i know i bagged gardy not because of his undoubted class but because of his fitness. he's never played a full season. ever. not even in his prime at west coast.
1997: 10 games
1998: 15 games
1999: 17 games
2000: 15 games
2001: 20 games
2002: 16 games
2003: 18 games
2004: 3 games
2005: 12 games
2006: 3 games
2007: 0 games
2008: 9 games
before 2009 he averaged 11.5 games a year - just about half a season.
it was a ridiculously ballsy, optimistic call to pick him up and hope that his body could be made right. but it seems to have come off (touch wood).
To the top wrote:The very fact that so many on this site bagged Gardiner showed exactly how much experience they have in matters footy.
i know i bagged gardy not because of his undoubted class but because of his fitness. he's never played a full season. ever. not even in his prime at west coast.
1997: 10 games
1998: 15 games
1999: 17 games
2000: 15 games
2001: 20 games
2002: 16 games
2003: 18 games
2004: 3 games
2005: 12 games
2006: 3 games
2007: 0 games
2008: 9 games
before 2009 he averaged 11.5 games a year - just about half a season.
it was a ridiculously ballsy, optimistic call to pick him up and hope that his body could be made right. but it seems to have come off (touch wood).
But you can make statistics say anything you want.
Before 2004 he averaged just under 16 games a year (including his first year when he was just a skinny 18yo kid).
So up until his injury problems in 2004 he was a pretty durable player.
The problem was that from 2004 to 2006 he only averaged 6 games a year, so it was a punt to take him on the basis that they would be able to manage his injury concerns.
2007 didn't fill you with much optimism in that regard
2008 obviously showed them enough improvement to take another punt with him.
I would say that, in 2007 and despite no AFL games in that season and only a couple of early appearances in the VFL, Gardiner showed the Coaching staff what they wanted to see hence he was retained for 2008.
And on his building and impressive form in 2008 until injury v. Sydney, in a game he was most influentual in until that injury just after half time, and then in the VFL resulting in him being named an emergency in our final (finals) game for that season (and I would have had him in the 22 with King v. Hawthorn who had 2 big ruckmen) he was kept on for 2009, correctly.
I would say that, in 2007 and despite no AFL games in that season and only a couple of early appearances in the VFL, Gardiner showed the Coaching staff what they wanted to see hence he was retained for 2008.
And on his building and impressive form in 2008 until injury v. Sydney, in a game he was most influentual in until that injury just after half time, and then in the VFL resulting in him being named an emergency in our final (finals) game for that season (and I would have had him in the 22 with King v. Hawthorn who had 2 big ruckmen) he was kept on for 2009, correctly.
And now he is showing the class he has.
No surprise, despite being "bagged" on this site.
I would just like to point out that some of us neither bagged him, nor complimented him. It is possible to have a neutral opinion on a player, and have a wait and see attitude.
I certainly never made a point of "bagging" him, and it seems that sometimes in saying nothing we are somehow put in the same basket.
