yips haunt riewoldt

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bigcarl
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yips haunt riewoldt

Post: # 733590Post bigcarl »

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

ALWAYS, the four points cover the cracks. Nick Riewoldt's darkest demon - the yip - came back to haunt him. But when his team is munching on a pedestrian Western Bulldogs, as it did at Etihad Stadium, the problem, apparently, is not so much of a problem.

This is not an assassination on one of the game's best, for his presentation, agility and marking was awesome last night, yet you don't have too look too far back to realise the importance of kicking goals.

Brendan Fevola on Saturday lost the game for Carlton afer missing a set shot from 20m. At the same time, he almost won it by kicking eight goals. But very few people will remember the eight, including the man himself.

Then there was the GF.

Geelong undid any chance of beating Hawthorn by choking in front of the sticks. It's history now, but a handful of Cats would still wake up shivering, wondering what if.

and so on

Thirty-two times St Kilda entered their forward 50 in the first half and 13 times they directed it at Riewoldt. Adam Schneider was next with two. By game's end, Riewoldt had it pumped to him 17 times from 56 entries. The next best was Stephen Milne and Jason Koschitzke at three.
Last edited by bigcarl on Mon 04 May 2009 3:24am, edited 1 time in total.


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Lennon
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Post: # 733591Post Lennon »

Mike Sheahan had a different take.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

It was totally appropriate that Nick Riewoldt finished with the ball in his hands last night. The skipper had been sensational from start to finish. Up against Dale Morris, the man who sits alongside Sydney's Craig Bolton as the most efficient key defender in the competition.

His work ethic, superb hands and team orientation make him one of the greats of the game.

He was wasteful early, as he so often is, but it didn't seem to matter.

Riewoldt and his troops were on a mission. They were ferocious in their attack on the ball and in close, and had twice as many tackles as their opposition in the first quarter.

The trend continued in the second term and St Kilda had surged to a 27-point lead at halftime, scoring 21 times to nine, and squandering another two or three opportunities.

Riewoldt ended up with 4.5, but it's hard to be critical of a player who works so hard and so bravely.

*************************

For what it's worth, I thought Riewoldt was awesome.


bigcarl
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Post: # 733592Post bigcarl »

Lennon wrote:For what it's worth, I thought Riewoldt was awesome.
he was. imagine if he'd kicked straight.


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Lennon
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Post: # 733593Post Lennon »

bigcarl wrote:
Lennon wrote:For what it's worth, I thought Riewoldt was awesome.
he was. imagine if he'd kicked straight.
There's no pleasing some people. ;) :P


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Post: # 733599Post Splayd »

I reckon that Riewoldts 'yips' are overstated. All forwards miss goals but the fact remains if you present yourself as often as he does you are going to miss a couple. Just ask Fevola who has had a terrible month. Also remember - he is a CHF.

In fact - if you look closly at his stats - he measures up quite well compared to some other key forwards. He has really only had two bad seasons - in 2002 when he kicked 21.18 in 22 games and 2005 when he kicked 33.36 in 15 (shoulder). Other than that he has roughly averaged between 63% & 68% efficiancy (not sure about OOF's etc...) He is at 57% this year which is the same as Fevola.

He also takes balls wide and from a fair distance out as any CHF will.

In fact if you look at Fevola over his career he averages about the same - maybe even a little worse than Rooey with his best at 66% efficiancy in 05 and 08 and worst at 47% in 2000. And I would say Fevola is a genuine full forward.

A quick look at who has kicked the most behinds this year show Fevola, Motlop, Franklin, S. Johnson and Richardson having kicked more and Lloyd, Mooney and Rooey all on 12. Of those only Fev, Franklin and Johnson have kicked more goals than him so if Rooeys got the yips, I suppose, Lloyd, Motlop and Mooney do as well - more so in fact.

I am pretty sure that if your CHF can average almost 3 goals a game (which he is doing this year) you will do allright 'yips' or no 'yips'

I just reckon it is a bit of a myth - that's all. Remember - he kicked 4.1 and 5.0 the last couple of weeks. And having to watch this match via the internerd I noticed the commentators kept remarking that in this game, he was being pushed wide quite often. Any player will miss a few if they are kicking out wide more often than not.

6-zip - next up the Filth!!


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Post: # 733635Post Sainter_Dad »

Caught the end of an interview (interviewee will remain nameless as it will stir up some posters) on SEN

He said that Roo is prone to missing in the first because he is running on adrenaline and over exerts himself - but after he settles he really settles - I feel confident after Roo has kicked his first - but maybe it takes until then for him to settle down

Who knows - maybe a first quarter with him on the wing to burn off his nervous energy is needed - with BJ at FF for the quarter to kick a lazy 4/5 and Kosi breaking the packs at CHF!

I am sure RL knows what he needs to know - and yes 4 points covers a lot of sins - Hell I would love to be having this discussion at round 22 - If we are 88 points, minor premiers and have percentage higher than 175% I dont care if Roo has kicked 100 goals and 150 points!


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Post: # 733643Post bergholt »

i love the kid, but he is kicking badly this year. the afl site has stats including misses (out on full, etc) and he's the second most inaccurate of anyone with more than ten goals, just ahead of lloyd, just behind motlop:

Jarryd Roughead 24.5 75
Brendan Fevola 23.17 47.92
Jonathan Brown 20.10 55.56
Lance Franklin 18.14 52.94
Eddie Betts 18.7 64.29
Steve Johnson 17.14 47.22
Warren Tredrea 17.7 62.96
Daniel Bradshaw 17.4 68
Nick Riewoldt 16.12 42.11
Mark LeCras 16.7 57.14
Jason Porplyzia 16.0 84.21
Daniel Motlop 15.15 42.86
John Anthony 15.7 68.18
Stephen Milne 12.6 50
Paul Medhurst 12.8 54.55
Cameron Mooney 12.12 48
Matthew Pavlich 11.8 55
Justin Koschitzke 11.3 78.57
Leon Davis 10.4 71.43
Brad Johnson 10.5 62.5
Shaun Higgins 10.7 52.63
Matthew Lloyd 10.12 38.46
Robert Gray 10.4 58.82
Max Rooke 10.6 62.5
Travis Varcoe 10.6 58.82

kosi, on the other hand, is second on that list. so there ya go.


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Post: # 733646Post bergholt »

actually, just thinking about it, i reckon the main issue is that he gets the ball deep in the pockets too often. he had at least four shots from pretty tight angles last night. one was that ridiculous goal from the boundary, but he took quite a few marks right down in low percentage territory.

he just needs to be told that there's no shame in finding a pass for the hard ones. he's trying so hard to present great leadership, but it ends up with the opposite effect. as an opposition defender, you just need to block the corridor, and then it'll be hard for him from out wide.


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Post: # 733686Post bigcarl »

bergholt wrote:he just needs to be told that there's no shame in finding a pass for the hard ones.
good point. some of those angles would have tested even plugger.

speaking of whom, i remember early on in his career he used to often lead out to the pockets and end up on impossible angles. he was such a fabulous kick that he'd convert even a fair percentage of those.

then the doc stopped him leading out from the square. just put him 20 or 15 metres a further out from goal and opened up some space for him to lead into.

it also gave him the option of dropping back a little and backing his strength in the marking contest.

the consequence was that plugger ended up having a lot more easy shots at goal rather than having to thread the needle every time.


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Post: # 733689Post bigcarl »

Lennon wrote:
bigcarl wrote:
Lennon wrote:For what it's worth, I thought Riewoldt was awesome.
he was. imagine if he'd kicked straight.
There's no pleasing some people. ;) :P
:) i love riewoldt, but i thought robbo made some very good points in his piece.

1) inability to convert cost geelong the premiership last year.

2) we are still very dependent on riewoldt as a target. the stats demonstrate that emphatically.

3) if we're going to go to him as often as we do, he needs to convert.

##

personally i though we desperately lacked a second key forward.


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Post: # 733693Post Spinner »

Does anyone else notice that Riewoldt only kicks accurately when he scores quite a few cheap open goals from only a couple of meters out....

When he isn't given this luxury, he misses all sorts.


Why is he turning the ball around while he walks in to shoot? This is a new thing. Is he trying to kick like J Browns style???


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Post: # 733697Post Superboot »

The problem with Nick is that he'll occasionally slot one through from 45 out on a 65 degree angle, but he's a 50/50 chance from 30 out on a 45 degree angle.

He misses those shots that Hamill and Brett Voss would hardly ever miss, and sometimes he misses by a very long way (e.g. when his kick is marked on the far behind post). It just has you scratching your head, especially when you are in your 50s and you are quite genuinely thinking that you could have kicked that one yourself!

He may not have the yips, but it's hard to know what else to call it.


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Post: # 733741Post Ghost Like »

Spinner wrote:Does anyone else notice that Riewoldt only kicks accurately when he scores quite a few cheap open goals from only a couple of meters out....

When he isn't given this luxury, he misses all sorts.
I understand what you're saying Spinner however I think that's just the rub of the green, when he works as hard as he does he deserves those opportunities after he takes on the responsibility for the hard shots.

I think Cam Mooney is the worst for not kicking big goals, I've never seen a key forward kick so many goals from inside 15-20m yet fail as often as he does to kick goals (set shots) from 30+ meters...he, IMO, is the worst of all the key forwards for not kicking the goals the team needs him to.

I agree with superboot, the real problem for me is not the ones he misses from just inside the boundary but the ones that are 45 degrees or straighter. More often than not those misses occur with his early shots and they tail off widely to the left which to me is more about how he's dropping the ball. Whether this is technique, resin or adrenalin who knows but I do believe it can be fixed via repetitive training on a technique he's comfortable with and one that works. Much like Lloyd's kicking, Stewie Loewe's kicking and even Tiger's putting, they never deviate from their set ups.


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Post: # 733743Post InkerSaint »

bigcarl wrote:2) we are still very dependent on riewoldt as a target. the stats demonstrate that emphatically.
It's been said by many people many times, but sorry - I don't buy it.

Show me a game this year where Riewoldt gets shut out... and I'll show you half a dozen other players who step up to the mark.

The stats demonstrate that emphatically too.

This dependency thing is hogwash.


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Post: # 733750Post bigcarl »

InkerSaint wrote:
bigcarl wrote:2) we are still very dependent on riewoldt as a target. the stats demonstrate that emphatically.
It's been said by many people many times, but sorry - I don't buy it.

Show me a game this year where Riewoldt gets shut out, and I'll show you half a dozen other players who step up to the mark.

The stats demonstrate that emphatically too.

This dependency thing is hogwash.
i disagree. it is something we need to guard against and i thought we looked vulnerable without a genuine second key forward yesterday.

we won, but it doesn't make our structure perfect or mean that it cannot be improved on.


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Post: # 733755Post Beej »

Spinner wrote:Why is he turning the ball around while he walks in to shoot? This is a new thing. Is he trying to kick like J Browns style???
I've noticed that too. I reckon it's to make his kick feel as natural as possible, like he's at training. Footballers often do that while they're just standing around waiting for training to start. They'll spin the ball around and take a pot-shot.

Roo probably noticed that he's a lot better in training than on game day so he's trying to replicate the way he kicks in training, right down to the spinning of the ball.

As bad as he did kick last night, it was his checkside on the stroke of half-time that broke the Dogs' back. I couldn't believe he kicked that.


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Post: # 733756Post bigcarl »

OLB wrote:As bad as he did kick last night, it was his checkside on the stroke of half-time that broke the Dogs' back. I couldn't believe he kicked that.
i was rubbing my eyes, too. probably because it was so difficult a shot it took the pressure right off him.

so he just relaxed and let his instincts take over.


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Post: # 733763Post d roit »

i think we'll see rooey kick straight next week. he's an absolute champion player who will bounce back from what effectively was a 4 goals out of 11 shots game. i'm sure he understands the effect his inaccuracy has on the team, and as a leader will not make the same costly errors again.

imo there isnt even a need for discussion about his yips; discounting last year, i think he's totally past that and it was merely an off night.


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Post: # 733768Post Beej »

bigcarl wrote:
OLB wrote:As bad as he did kick last night, it was his checkside on the stroke of half-time that broke the Dogs' back. I couldn't believe he kicked that.
i was rubbing my eyes, too. probably because it was so difficult a shot it took the pressure right off him.

so he just relaxed and let his instincts take over.
Every Bulldog player out there would have given him no chance of kicking it so when he did it must have shattered them going into the rooms.

With his kicking woes being much publicised over the last few years you couldn't blame him for developing a sort of complex.

Before every single shot for goal he would have an enormous amount of pressure on him, more than anyone else in the game.

It's not kicking practice he needs. It's a sports psychologist. I wonder if he's sought that kinda help?


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Post: # 733769Post Spinner »

OLB wrote:
Spinner wrote:Why is he turning the ball around while he walks in to shoot? This is a new thing. Is he trying to kick like J Browns style???
I've noticed that too. I reckon it's to make his kick feel as natural as possible, like he's at training. Footballers often do that while they're just standing around waiting for training to start. They'll spin the ball around and take a pot-shot.

Roo probably noticed that he's a lot better in training than on game day so he's trying to replicate the way he kicks in training, right down to the spinning of the ball.

As bad as he did kick last night, it was his checkside on the stroke of half-time that broke the Dogs' back. I couldn't believe he kicked that.
Yep, well he's definitely altered his kicking style.....And has reverted from having any type of routine or method....Which is a bad idea....He is continually not making the distance and spraying them off the side of the boot.

Give him a tape of tony lockett or matthew lloyd.....Roo does everything he can to go against how these two kick their goals. Where is the logic in that.


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Post: # 733772Post bigcarl »

OLB wrote:It's not kicking practice he needs. It's a sports psychologist. I wonder if he's sought that kinda help?
probably wouldn't hurt, but there's a mechanical aspect to it as well. ask any golfer.

the best ones groove their swing to such an extent that they can reproduce it consistently even under extreme pressure.


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Post: # 733781Post Beej »

bigcarl wrote:
OLB wrote:It's not kicking practice he needs. It's a sports psychologist. I wonder if he's sought that kinda help?
probably wouldn't hurt, but there's a mechanical aspect to it as well. ask any golfer.

the best ones groove their swing to such an extent that they can reproduce it consistently even under extreme pressure.
Yeah, he needs help, that's for sure. Somewhere along the line he picked up a bad habit. His drop of the ball, not following through...something.

I can't help but wonder how he'd cope - say, first quarter, Grand Final.

The occasion could be too much for him to handle...


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Post: # 733784Post matrix »

ok...where are the missed set shots at goal being taken from on the park.
bet they arent all dead in front or a slight angle....

yips...lol
those days are long gone


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Post: # 733889Post Spinner »

bigcarl wrote:
OLB wrote:It's not kicking practice he needs. It's a sports psychologist. I wonder if he's sought that kinda help?
probably wouldn't hurt, but there's a mechanical aspect to it as well. ask any golfer.

the best ones groove their swing to such an extent that they can reproduce it consistently even under extreme pressure.
Correct.

But for some reason he thinks otherwise.


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Post: # 733910Post Beej »

He's already tried having that standard, set routine and it hasn't worked which is probably why he's gone for this more natural approach. The casual, don't overthink it approach.

Roo has a natural high-drop too which would be so difficult to take out of his game at that age. The higher you drop the ball, obviously the more can go wrong with it. While under pressure, I can imagine that drop of the ball as well as his timing would be well off.

I'd be interested to hear how well he kicks in training. I have a feeling he's pretty accurate in training.

Again, when under pressure, it is so easy to resort to old, bad habits.

Another thing that leads me to believe that it's more mental than anything is that his field kicking is brilliant. Left and right. Surely if it was a technical or mechanical fault his field kicking would suffer, no?

Needs to replicate his field kicking when he's shooting for goal. Probably why he's adopted the whole spinning of the ball because that's what he normally does after he takes a mark and is looking to find a teammate.

Somebody needs to sit behind the goals with a picture of a St Kilda jumper on top of a massive pole. He would hit that 9 out of 10 times.


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