http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... tID=135234
Rejuvenated Gardiner to lock horns with best in the business
9th April 2009, 8:30 WST
Dumped West Coast ruckman Michael Gardiner’s rebirth at St Kilda will be put to a brutal test on Saturday against the man he once almost forced to go to Moorabbin.
Eagles big man Dean Cox was so frustrated at living in Gardiner’s hulking shadow in 2003 that he had all but agreed to move to St Kilda.
Coach Grant Thomas even considered it a done deal, but lamented that the failure to seal it ultimately cost the club a drought-breaking flag before he was dumped at the end of 2006 after their third-straight finals finish, including two preliminary finals.
“I’ve got no doubt it would have dramatically assisted us,â€
Article on Gardiner
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True Blue Sainter
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If only we had Cox.
Why doesn't GT give reasons for the deal falling through? Did West Coast pull out? Did we pull out? Was it one of those "faxed at 2.01pm" deals that missed the deadline? I'd like to hear the reasons if it was allegedly a "done deal" or "fait accompli" as GT calls it.
Cox would almost definitely have taken us to a Grand Final.
Why doesn't GT give reasons for the deal falling through? Did West Coast pull out? Did we pull out? Was it one of those "faxed at 2.01pm" deals that missed the deadline? I'd like to hear the reasons if it was allegedly a "done deal" or "fait accompli" as GT calls it.
Cox would almost definitely have taken us to a Grand Final.
The Saints are coming!
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InkerSaint
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Congrats on reaching 1000 posts True Blue.
Isn't it clear already? Gardiner had his knee injury, and Cox finally had an opportunity to break into the Eagles' side.
I don't know why GT craps on so much. It's not as if Cox and Gardi haven't lined up before. In fact Gardi has some atonement to make up for his abysmal showing at Subiaco last year.
Isn't it clear already? Gardiner had his knee injury, and Cox finally had an opportunity to break into the Eagles' side.
I don't know why GT craps on so much. It's not as if Cox and Gardi haven't lined up before. In fact Gardi has some atonement to make up for his abysmal showing at Subiaco last year.
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older saint
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-- mounted one final resistance against the growing St Kilda overtures and his break came the following year in round three when Gardiner suffered a season-ending knee injury which ultimately triggered his unravelling at the Eagles--
See this is where the story breaks down.
Gardiner was AA in 2003. If Cox was on the market in the off season why didn't we get him then?
It states gardiner did his knee in R3 2004. Were we going to wait a whole season before Cox signed?
Doesn't add up.
See this is where the story breaks down.
Gardiner was AA in 2003. If Cox was on the market in the off season why didn't we get him then?
It states gardiner did his knee in R3 2004. Were we going to wait a whole season before Cox signed?
Doesn't add up.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Saints Premiers 2008
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agreed...why did it brake down...its not as if cox and his group would have listened to the eagles saying that gardiner was a bad boy etcjoffaboy wrote:-- mounted one final resistance against the growing St Kilda overtures and his break came the following year in round three when Gardiner suffered a season-ending knee injury which ultimately triggered his unravelling at the Eagles--
See this is where the story breaks down.
Gardiner was AA in 2003. If Cox was on the market in the off season why didn't we get him then?
It states gardiner did his knee in R3 2004. Were we going to wait a whole season before Cox signed?
Doesn't add up.
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
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SaintWodonga
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starsign
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and GT could still be coach..........and if my auntie had Niagras she'd be my uncle!Cox would have made a hell of a difference in 2004. We would have won the last 2 games of of the year...
its history and you cant change it
I don't expect him to murder Cox this week but
Gards has to atone for his shocker v WCE last year...he owes us this one at least!
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vacuous space
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Gardiner got injured toward the end of 2003 - his AA year - and Cox showed glimpses of the ruckman he was going to become. He averaged 13.5 disposals and 25.5 hitouts while Gardiner was out and then in R22 - after Gardiner had returned - he had a 21 touch, 2 goal game against Freo. I think his late season play would have made WC very nervous about trading him.
I think the implication is that Cox was leaning toward coming here during 2003. By the end of 03 though, he looked like he was going to get a chance where he was, so he stayed put. I'm not going to say it cost us a flag, but having a dominant ruckman would have made a big difference to our 04-06 finals campaigns. Then again, he may have fallen into our injury trap and never become the star he has had he crossed.
I think the implication is that Cox was leaning toward coming here during 2003. By the end of 03 though, he looked like he was going to get a chance where he was, so he stayed put. I'm not going to say it cost us a flag, but having a dominant ruckman would have made a big difference to our 04-06 finals campaigns. Then again, he may have fallen into our injury trap and never become the star he has had he crossed.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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SuperSaint
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saintspremiers
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BackFromUSA
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i have been telling the forum this for years and for one last time
We nearly got Cox but in the end Cox & West Cpoast pulled the deal BUT the deal had been done bar the paperwork.
We almost got Simmonds but Richmond gazumped us with a 5 year deal someting we were not prepared to match.
GT rated ruckmen ... but only GOOD ruckmen ... he felt average and poor ruckmen who got less than 10 disposals in a match and only average to poor tap ruckmen were a waste of space.
We nearly got Cox but in the end Cox & West Cpoast pulled the deal BUT the deal had been done bar the paperwork.
We almost got Simmonds but Richmond gazumped us with a 5 year deal someting we were not prepared to match.
GT rated ruckmen ... but only GOOD ruckmen ... he felt average and poor ruckmen who got less than 10 disposals in a match and only average to poor tap ruckmen were a waste of space.
AwayInUSA no longer ... have based myself back in Melbourne for a decade of Saintsational Success (with regular trips back to the USA)
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The OtherThommo
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Savatage got it right. G. Thomas and his love of a ruckman that kicked off his career as a rookie hack? Spare me, FFS.
Oh, yeah, GT wanted Cox. Bullsmtye. This bloke goes on with the same nonsense and people buy it.
We have a coach. He's smart, smarter than his predecessor and he is the fella that takes us forward.
Grant, Grant, Grant - you freakin' waste of space. Unlike the Beverley Hillbillies, don't you dare come back now.
Oh, yeah, GT wanted Cox. Bullsmtye. This bloke goes on with the same nonsense and people buy it.
We have a coach. He's smart, smarter than his predecessor and he is the fella that takes us forward.
Grant, Grant, Grant - you freakin' waste of space. Unlike the Beverley Hillbillies, don't you dare come back now.
'I have no new illusions, and I have no old illusions' - Vladimir Putin, Geneva, June 2021
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ace
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So we missed getting Cox at the end of 2003 but hey we got Cain Ackland at the end of 2004.
OOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!!
OOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!!
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
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If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
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Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
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ace
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Grant Thomas talked a lot about not needing a ruckman but that was just spin because we didn't have one.
The truth is he tried like hell to get one.
He traded pick 45 for Trent Knobel at the end of 2001.
He wasted pick 6 at the end of 2002 on a trade for Barry Brooks when he could have picked a quality player like Steven Salopek (and would have).
He tried unsucessfully to get Dean Cox at the end of 2003.
He tried to get Simmonds at the end of 2004 but when that failed got Cain Ackland by trading pick 33 instead.
Those are not the actions of a coach who doesn't believe in ruckmen.
Thomas knew and believed he needed a quality ruckman but when those he had, failed to deliver, he did what good managers do, he took the flack for his players by pretending the lack of a good ruckmen did not matter.
Some of you children and adults who haven't grown up need to learn about management.
You don't bag your staff to others unless you are prepared to sack them.
Then you make an example of them (Matthew Capuano).
You critique them privately and support them publicly up until that point.
A good manager wears the blame and responsibilty for his staff's failures.
When the staff see the manager do that they will often respond by lifting their game to support their manager.
You don't have to like Grant Thomas but you don't need to ignore the truth either.
The truth is he tried like hell to get one.
He traded pick 45 for Trent Knobel at the end of 2001.
He wasted pick 6 at the end of 2002 on a trade for Barry Brooks when he could have picked a quality player like Steven Salopek (and would have).
He tried unsucessfully to get Dean Cox at the end of 2003.
He tried to get Simmonds at the end of 2004 but when that failed got Cain Ackland by trading pick 33 instead.
Those are not the actions of a coach who doesn't believe in ruckmen.
Thomas knew and believed he needed a quality ruckman but when those he had, failed to deliver, he did what good managers do, he took the flack for his players by pretending the lack of a good ruckmen did not matter.
Some of you children and adults who haven't grown up need to learn about management.
You don't bag your staff to others unless you are prepared to sack them.
Then you make an example of them (Matthew Capuano).
You critique them privately and support them publicly up until that point.
A good manager wears the blame and responsibilty for his staff's failures.
When the staff see the manager do that they will often respond by lifting their game to support their manager.
You don't have to like Grant Thomas but you don't need to ignore the truth either.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA 50:08
glad some people can remember that actual quote, GT never said he didn't rate ruckman, just did not rate average ruckman whole did not give you an option around the ground. Better to play a shorter player, lose the tap but gain an extra midfielder (see blake).
Anyway can't wait to see these two lock horns. Love two big rucks going at each other.
Anyway can't wait to see these two lock horns. Love two big rucks going at each other.
FQF
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
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widereceiver
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Get it right, FFS.
It's ancient history folks, but those eejits, including some in the media, who bag Thomas for not rating ruckmen should get their facts straight, finally, and then analyse what his real weaknesses were. Perhaps proper analysis may be a leap for the GT baggers who swallowed this furphy hook, line and sinker.
I bag him for having only one gameplan and his "training services" record.
It wasn't his fault we couldn't acquire a real ruckman.
It's ancient history folks, but those eejits, including some in the media, who bag Thomas for not rating ruckmen should get their facts straight, finally, and then analyse what his real weaknesses were. Perhaps proper analysis may be a leap for the GT baggers who swallowed this furphy hook, line and sinker.
I bag him for having only one gameplan and his "training services" record.
It wasn't his fault we couldn't acquire a real ruckman.
"Winning's not everything, it's the ONLY thing!" Vince Lombardi.
Sam Gilbert #1 booster - always on the attack!!!
Win more for Winmar
Sam Gilbert #1 booster - always on the attack!!!
Win more for Winmar
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Mr Magic
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Other than recruiting a young Brooks (for pick 6) and continuing to play Kosi as a ruckman, did GT try to draft/develop/nurture a ruck prospect?widereceiver wrote:Get it right, FFS.
It's ancient history folks, but those eejits, including some in the media, who bag Thomas for not rating ruckmen should get their facts straight, finally, and then analyse what his real weaknesses were. Perhaps proper analysis may be a leap for the GT baggers who swallowed this furphy hook, line and sinker.
I bag him for having only one gameplan and his "training services" record.
It wasn't his fault we couldn't acquire a real ruckman.
I think he kept on trying to get a 'ready-made' one by trading rather than developing one.
His 'I don't rate ruckmen' quote has been misquoted by many for years, but it still doesn't change the fact that other than Brooks and a dogmatic approach to Kosi, he did sfa to develop a young ruckman,
How many ruck prospect kids were drafted between Kosi and Ben McEvoy by other clubs?
RL has already shown in 3 drafts that he has a philosophical difference to GT in this area.
He traded for aging ready made ruckmen (Clarke, Gardiner, King) whilst at teh same time taking McEvoy, Haretuku, McGrath, Stanley, Gaertner with draft picks for the future.