SOS's list assessment

B W and R all over · Wed 25 Mar 2009 12:36pm

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx

Some interesting points there. Pretty insightful.

Saints94 · Post: # 712894Post **Saints94** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 12:48pm

Great Assement from sos.............. didn't know about the few ops with some players

goodie · Post: # 712906Post **goodie** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 1:05pm

Robert Eddy
Had a great pre-season until he was injured against the Umpires. When he trains he trains hard. That is what got him elevated from the rookie list. Having said that, he still strives to improve. He is a workhorse for us.

Felt the need to amend that

gooner · Post: # 712926Post **gooner** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 2:07pm

[quote
Alistair Smith
He hasnâ€™t done a lot in the pre-season and had a small operation. He is doing some skills work and we havenâ€™t got a great expectation of him this year, but who knows?
[/quote]

Thought he was playing R1

onlooker · Post: # 712942Post **onlooker** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 2:28pm

McEvoy5 wrote:Great Assement from sos.............. didn't know about the few ops with some players

I agree. A good assessment from someone whose views I respect. A main theme in the comments and something I probably take too much for granted (cause I'm impatient) is DEVELOPMENT. From his comments it obviously never stops and they have identified those parts of players' game that need work and those parts that are basically there now. I found the info on Gram really interesting. I think he is a very good player most of the time - is a bit too one sided and I have seen his defensive game collapse on occassions but still an important player for us. SOS reckons there is still plenty of room for improvement and they seem to be expecting it whereas I thought given his skills and the way he plays he was close to the top of his game if not there now.

Moccha · Post: # 712950Post **Moccha** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 2:49pm

Ben McEvoy
Ben played against Port Adelaide on the weekend and got some really good experience against Dean Brogan and Brendon Lade in the ruck. He is the next one in line and the opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

Not much of a wrap!

markp · Post: # 712956Post **markp** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 3:01pm

Interesting.... 'Critical' year for X and Jimmy.... Jack Steven gets a kick up the ar$e too, "It is important that he keeps doing the work. His opportunity is there if he wants to push himself to play at AFL level."

Mr Magic · Post: # 712958Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 3:05pm

Moccha wrote:Ben McEvoy
Ben played against Port Adelaide on the weekend and got some really good experience against Dean Brogan and Brendon Lade in the ruck. He is the next one in line and the opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

Not much of a wrap!

Sheesh Moccha - Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?

That's the second time today you've managed to find a 'negative' out of a positive comment by someone at the Club.

IMHO not even Ben McEvoy's parents would think he's in front of either King or Gardiner at this point in time of his development as an AFL ruckman.

The fact that SOS is clearly stating he's next in line is, I reckon, a compliment to the kid.

Like the Dal Santo comment you seem to be looking for negatives?
Why, the season hasn't even started yet - maybe save the negatives for when they are deserved?

Loyal · Post: # 712961Post **Loyal** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 3:18pm

Stephen Silvagni
Genuine, honest and hard working.
Someone we enjoy the company of.
Very respectful and a top bloke.
A better Coach than Banger.

saintsRrising · Wed 25 Mar 2009 3:19pm

I always worry about players when they say he ticks all the boxes , or is working very hard...

Loyal · Post: # 712965Post **Loyal** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 3:23pm

what do you want from the guy.
i thought his assessment of sean dempster was good:

Sean Dempster
He is still recovering from his knee reconstruction but if you look at him youâ€™d think heâ€™s ready to play. We think he will play some senior footy in the second half of the year. He is probably ahead of schedule but the medical staff is taking a conservative approach.

evertonfc · Post: # 712986Post **evertonfc** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 4:28pm

Mr Magic wrote:
Moccha wrote:Ben McEvoy
Ben played against Port Adelaide on the weekend and got some really good experience against Dean Brogan and Brendon Lade in the ruck. He is the next one in line and the opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

Not much of a wrap!
Sheesh Moccha - Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?

I'm with Moccha, to be honest...

I was hoping McEvoy would get a "is knocking the door down and pressing for round one", not a "might get a chance sometimes this year".

He is a top 10 pick after all, and you *know* there's a difference between positive for the sake of harmony and genuine excitement.

stinger · Post: # 712996Post **stinger** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 4:47pm

he's more than just our top ten pick....he's our cyril rioli.....

makes me wanna cry.....

Mr Magic · Post: # 712997Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 4:51pm

He's a ruckman, and the experts all agree that young ruckmen take years to develop into topline AFL players.
Kreuzer - the best thing since sliced cheese. WHat did Carlton do at teh end of the year? Went out and bought a ruckman who has been in the system for 3-4 years already because they recognize that even he isn't going to be a topline ruckman yet.

Who was the last player who became a good/great ruckman in his first 2 seasons?

Mr Magic · Post: # 713002Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 4:58pm

Mr Magic wrote:
Moccha wrote:Ben McEvoy
Ben played against Port Adelaide on the weekend and got some really good experience against Dean Brogan and Brendon Lade in the ruck. He is the next one in line and the opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

opportunity may arise for him at some stage this year.

Not much of a wrap!
Sheesh Moccha - Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?
That's the second time today you've managed to find a 'negative' out of a positive comment by someone at the Club.

IMHO not even Ben McEvoy's parents would think he's in front of either King or Gardiner at this point in time of his development as an AFL ruckman.

The fact that SOS is clearly stating he's next in line is, I reckon, a compliment to the kid.

Like the Dal Santo comment you seem to be looking for negatives?
Why, the season hasn't even started yet - maybe save the negatives for when they are deserved?

My apologies Moccha!
I misread the Dal Santo post and it was in fact Mooksy and not you!!!
I take it back (about it being the second negative post today)

St DAC · Post: # 713005Post **St DAC** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 5:00pm

Mr Magic wrote:Who was the last player who became a good/great ruckman in his first 2 seasons?

Simon Madden? Big Carl?

evertonfc · Post: # 713006Post **evertonfc** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 5:04pm

Mr Magic wrote:He's a ruckman, and the experts all agree that young ruckmen take years to develop into topline AFL players.
Kreuzer - the best thing since sliced cheese. WHat did Carlton do at teh end of the year? Went out and bought a ruckman who has been in the system for 3-4 years already because they recognize that even he isn't going to be a topline ruckman yet.

Who was the last player who became a good/great ruckman in his first 2 seasons?

They are often late bloomers that's true, but it's about the signs being promising in the opening few years.

There just doesn't seem to be a lot of those about McEvoy. A bit quiet...a bit *too* quiet.

Though one St Kilda player said to be me last year he was a 'certainty' to make the grade, which was promising.

Only time will tell, and the one good thing about a ruckman is that whilst he may not be *gun* ruckman, if he's tall and can compete, he might at least become a second option - so we're at least getting someone who'll probably play 150+ games.

Mr Magic · Post: # 713016Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 5:25pm

St DAC wrote:
Mr Magic wrote:Who was the last player who became a good/great ruckman in his first 2 seasons?
Simon Madden? Big Carl?

Big Carl certainly early 1960's

Simon Madden I think you'll find was played as almost a permanent Forward rather than a ruckman in his early years.

Even if he wasn't, when did he debut? In the last 25 years?

The role of ruckmen has evolved in that time (as has the game in general)

I'm still trying to recall any player in the last 10 years who has debuted as a good ruckman?

bigcarl · Post: # 713030Post **bigcarl** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 5:54pm

mcevoy will have to force his way in with consistent dominant performances for sandy.

king and gardiner are in front of him as first choice ruckmen and kosi's in front of him as a ruck forward.

so to leapfrog any of those he's really going to have to produce at the lesser level.

interesting to read sos's comments on rhys stanley.

Rhys Stanley: He also had an operation so he hasnâ€™t done much of the pre-season. From what weâ€™ve seen he looks impressive and can play ruck and up forward. Thereâ€™s some exciting signs there

his youtube highlights were quite impressive.

quick and mobile for a big guy, good hands and a good kick. not afraid to use his ample frame.

sunsaint · Post: # 713038Post **sunsaint** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:11pm

cmon MM you asked the question StDac gave you some names
I actually think it is easier in todays game for the kids to make a mark.
They are better physically prepared, more professional, and on the whole way more focused and dedicated.
In the good old days, once you crossed the white line, players mostly wanted to kill you, "welcome to a mans' game son, and if you know what's good for you... dont get up".

Spinner · Post: # 713039Post **Spinner** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:14pm

Mark Thompson trading two first rounders for Brad Ottens has been officially the best trade ever.

Received:
An experienced and first class ruckman.
And a premiership.
And bypassed that gay 6 year waiting period for all ruckman (no matter where picked in the draft) - which doesn't even come with a guarantee.

Cost:
1st rounder and Brent Moloney.

Ben McEvoy will be a star when the rest of the team is not. (Not his fault)

Mr Magic · Post: # 713043Post **Mr Magic** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:26pm

sunsaint wrote:cmon MM you asked the question StDac gave you some names
I actually think it is easier in todays game for the kids to make a mark.
They are better physically prepared, more professional, and on the whole way more focused and dedicated.
In the good old days, once you crossed the white line, players mostly wanted to kill you, "welcome to a mans' game son, and if you know what's good for you... dont get up".

I'm sorry, I don't understand the point you are making?
I made a point specifically about ruckmen and you seem to be talking about any draftee, immaterial of shape, size or position?
T
o use your description of 'They are better physically prepared, more professional......' actually is a total fallacy when talking about ruckmen and KPP to a lesser extent.
99.9% of all kids drafted can be classified as physically immature in comparison to the hardened bodies of experienced AFL players.
You hear the comment that they need a 'few pre-seasons to build themselves up' all the time.

StDac's answer pretty much underscored what I was alluding to.
It's at least 25 years since a player was drafted and made an immediated impact as a ruckman (if you concede that Madden actually played in the ruck and not as a forward - which I don't necessarily agree with).

My point is that since then I'm still waiting to hear the name(s) of any player who had been a good ruckman in his first couple of years.

And to bring it back to the initial post on this, Moccha was disappointed that SOS stated McEvoy was behind King and Gardiner.

If he was supposed to be better than those 2 then he would have been drafted #1 by Carlton who were desperate for a ruckman to give them immediate impact.

starsign · Post: # 713044Post **starsign** » Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:29pm

[quote]Stephen Silvagni
Genuine, honest and hard working.
Someone we enjoy the company of.
Very respectful and a top bloke.
A better Coach than Banger.
Laughing[/quote]

interesting that! a bit off the topic but anyhow....

my thoughts for a start ... SOS a very professional report !0/!0 Well done and thanks
the [i]laughing[/i] quote in conclusion would make for a very interesting post in its own right sometime down the track maybe
and with all due respects to our great champ who is only about to step into this arena ....we are certainly well ahead of the Bluebangers at this stage on this comparative score and of course time will tell!
And I don't know the exact stats but I think we had a pretty highly rated defence last season performance wise

Anyway...Goodonya SOS you'll do us !

vacuous space · Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:33pm

bigcarl wrote:interesting to read sos's comments on rhys stanley. his youtube highlights were quite impressive.

It's a pity that McEvoy's championships aren't on youtube. He averaged 17 touches, 8 marks and 14 hitouts at the championships. Kreuzer averaged 14 disposals, 3 marks and 15 hitouts. Stanley averaged 5 touches, 3 marks and 12 hitouts. It's not even close. McEvoy is a gun ruck prospect. Stanley is a project player. McEvoy is part of the next generation of gun rucks along with Cordy, Kreuzer, Leuenberger, Naitanui and Vickery. In a few years time, we're going to be glad that we have one of those guys. He might lack the athleticism of Kreuzer or Nat, but his football skills are as good as you'll ever find in a big man.

We had no need to play him in 08. Playing first round picks in their first year blows out their salary in year 2. That's great if they're gun players straight away. As Mr Magic pointed out, few ruckmen are. McEvoy wasn't ready last year and probably won't be ready this year. Thanks to having King, Gardiner, Kosi and Blake, we can afford to wait. We just need to teach him to use his size better in the ruck. McEvoy is a natural footballer, the rest will come easy.

BelfastSaint · Wed 25 Mar 2009 6:33pm

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