HAWKS v SAINTS Compared

[Con Gorozidis]

In my books, saints a are a tad behind the hawks according to my player ratings. Our top 10 are also on average a little older than theirs. 2 of our top 10 are over 30 and only 1 of theirs. So if we are really to bridge the gap - then we need big improvements from our younger brigade (under 25's).

RANK HAWKS RATING SAINTS RATING

1 Buddy 9 Riewoldt 8
2 Roughie 8 BJ 8
3 Hodge 8 Chips 8
4 Bateman 7 Hayes 7
5 Mitchell 7 Hughton 7 (>30)
6 Brown 7 Ball 7
7 Williams 7 NDS 7
8 Sewell 7 Milne 7 (>30)
9 Cyril 7 Kosi 6
10 Croad 7 (>30) Gilbert 6

TOTAL 74 71

[Cairnsman]

The Hawks wont make the eight this year.

[PJ]

Not sure I'd rap up that bottom few from Hawks con, and you don't seem to rate Gram, Raph & Blake. I actually rate Blakey above Croad on consistency. Croady does a job but I wouldn't have him top shelf.

There's also the unknown with X, Bakes, Gardiner and possibly even Matt & Dempster later on in the season.

As a team they're above us at present but if you pull out individuals it doesn't always stack up.

main differences for me at present

1/ midfield/centre clearances

2/ forward structure and their ability to consistently hit them (Buddy & Roughy) up

[bigcarl]

Milne >30

milney's just turned 29.

interesting comparision.

the only thing they have that we don't is two gun key forwards (we have one) and a gameplan that plays to their strengths.

[SainterK]

I'm not really big into comparing teams...though I can appreciate aspiring to be competitive with teams that perform well.

I would like to think we are unique outfit, and we have our own strengths and weakness to work through.

I do hope this year is not full of copycats, and I sincerely hope that we avoid the "lets copy the premiership side" gameplan and positions.

[bigcarl]

I do hope this year is not full of copycats, and I sincerely hope that we avoid the "lets copy the premiership side" gameplan and positions.

how ironic is that. they have admitted using our teams of three or four years ago as a model for success (which they have tasted).

[fingers]

The Hawks wont make the eight this year.

Love that

[evertonfc]

St Kilda have better colours than Hawthorn and will therefore win the premiership.

There, I said it.

[saintsRrising]

I do hope this year is not full of copycats, and I sincerely hope that we avoid the "lets copy the premiership side" gameplan and positions.

how ironic is that. they have admitted using our teams of three or four years ago as a model for success (which they have tasted).

Did they?

When was that? And more importnatly how was that?

I remember them saying that they decidied to copy one aspect...to draft lots of the best young talent.

However they stuck to it and indeed magnified it by trading off older players for more good young picks.

Whereas the Saints traded away first round selections.


Also a key part of the Hawks success was that they decided to weight footskills highly and so their recruitment favoured those with excellent footskills. Indeed such was their thoroughness here that they had donea lot of analysis and turned up that natural left footers are on average better with footskills and this led to more lefties than normal being recruited.

Whereas at the Saints our recruiters seemed to not rate footskills that highly at all.

[Spinner]

In my books, saints a are a tad behind the hawks according to my player ratings. Our top 10 are also on average a little older than theirs. 2 of our top 10 are over 30 and only 1 of theirs. So if we are really to bridge the gap - then we need big improvements from our younger brigade (under 25's).

RANK HAWKS RATING SAINTS RATING

1 Buddy 9 Riewoldt 8
2 Roughie 8 BJ 8
3 Hodge 8 Chips 8
4 Bateman 7 Hayes 7
5 Mitchell 7 Hughton 7 (>30)
6 Brown 7 Ball 7
7 Williams 7 NDS 7
8 Sewell 7 Milne 7 (>30)
9 Cyril 7 Kosi 6
10 Croad 7 (>30) Gilbert 6

TOTAL 74 71

Poor analysis.

1. Reiwoldt is a better player than Franklin. Consistency is something most seem to forget.

2. Hodge is pushing 9's.

3. Mitchell is between a 8 and 9. Closer to 9.

4. Roughead is not an 8 yet. Once again, consistency.

5. Cyril is no where near a 7. Period.

6. Gilbert is not in our top ten.

And most importantly the improvement needs to come from the senior playing group. Nick Dal Santo, Koschitzke and Ball are all capable of pushing 9's. That is where the difference will come from.

[Teflon]

In my books, saints a are a tad behind the hawks according to my player ratings. Our top 10 are also on average a little older than theirs. 2 of our top 10 are over 30 and only 1 of theirs. So if we are really to bridge the gap - then we need big improvements from our younger brigade (under 25's).

RANK HAWKS RATING SAINTS RATING

1 Buddy 9 Riewoldt 8
2 Roughie 8 BJ 8
3 Hodge 8 Chips 8
4 Bateman 7 Hayes 7
5 Mitchell 7 Hughton 7 (>30)
6 Brown 7 Ball 7
7 Williams 7 NDS 7
8 Sewell 7 Milne 7 (>30)
9 Cyril 7 Kosi 6
10 Croad 7 (>30) Gilbert 6

TOTAL 74 71

Poor analysis.

1. Reiwoldt is a better player than Franklin. Consistency is something most seem to forget.

2. Hodge is pushing 9's.

3. Mitchell is between a 8 and 9. Closer to 9.

4. Roughead is not an 8 yet. Once again, consistency.

5. Cyril is no where near a 7. Period.

6. Gilbert is not in our top ten.

And most importantly the improvement needs to come from the senior playing group. Nick Dal Santo, Koschitzke and Ball are all capable of pushing 9's. That is where the difference will come from.

spot on.

[bigcarl]

I do hope this year is not full of copycats, and I sincerely hope that we avoid the "lets copy the premiership side" gameplan and positions.

how ironic is that. they have admitted using our teams of three or four years ago as a model for success (which they have tasted).

Did they?

When was that? And more importnatly how was that?

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/n ... 98297.html

alastair clarkson: We've actually tracked Geelong, St Kilda and Port Adelaide really closely as teams that have put their list together in the right type of manner and been very, very well coached, and (two of those teams) … have gone on to salute.

look, i'm not surprised that they used us as a bit of a role model.

when they were rebuilding we were the "team most likely" and used to regularly spank them, which would explain why he thought us "very, very well coached".

it's probably no accident that they've built a team around two dominant key forwards (franklin and roughhead) like we had in those days with gehrig and riewoldt.

that's how i read it, anyway. or do you think he is talking about more recent st kilda sides?

[Quixote]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight.

Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

[bigcarl]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight. Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

no doubt. that loss is going to haunt geelong for years.

[spert]

Hawks have tougher, harder middle size players who win the hard ball..and that's the difference

[saintsRrising]

I do hope this year is not full of copycats, and I sincerely hope that we avoid the "lets copy the premiership side" gameplan and positions.

how ironic is that. they have admitted using our teams of three or four years ago as a model for success (which they have tasted).

Did they?

When was that? And more importnatly how was that?

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/n ... 98297.html

alastair clarkson: We've actually tracked Geelong, St Kilda and Port Adelaide really closely as teams that have put their list together in the right type of manner and been very, very well coached, and (two of those teams) … have gone on to salute.

look, i'm not surprised that they used us as a bit of a role model.

when they were rebuilding we were the "team most likely" and used to regularly spank them, which would explain why he thought us "very, very well coached".

it's probably no accident that they've built a team around two dominant key forwards (franklin and roughhead) like we had in those days with gehrig and riewoldt.

that's how i read it, anyway. or do you think he is talking about more recent st kilda sides?

We are probably in agreeance then.....that the Hawks picked up on the best of what we did.. My departure though is it was only a part of what they did, and that they actually stuck to their guns better than we did. We lost our patience and too early started trying for the quick fix and compounded that witha series of in the main very bad calls (Gram being on of the few exceptions).

Unfortunately we after building the basis for a very good team then buggered up our recruiting and wasted a number of years of excellent work in both getting great kids as well as genuinely very good players fromnother teams.

[Cairnsman]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight.

Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

I couldn't aggree more. They will struggle this year.

[plugger66]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight.

Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

I couldn't aggree more. They will struggle this year.

Yes they will struggle. They only finished 4-5 games clear of 4th and only won the prelim by 10 goals and yes they are a very young side and most young players improve so I have no doubt they will struggle. Makes sense really.

[Moccha]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight.

Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

I couldn't aggree more. They will struggle this year.

Yes they will struggle. They only finished 4-5 games clear of 4th and only won the prelim by 10 goals and yes they are a very young side and most young players improve so I have no doubt they will struggle. Makes sense really.

Like most of your posts do. You need to remember that we all wear rose coloured glasses in here!

[Con Gorozidis]

The Hawks wont make the eight this year.

im hapy to bet they will. 100 bucks.

[Con Gorozidis]

Milne >30

milney's just turned 29.

interesting comparision.

the only thing they have that we don't is two gun key forwards (we have one) and a gameplan that plays to their strengths.

apologies to milney. my error.

[Con Gorozidis]

In my books, saints a are a tad behind the hawks according to my player ratings. Our top 10 are also on average a little older than theirs. 2 of our top 10 are over 30 and only 1 of theirs. So if we are really to bridge the gap - then we need big improvements from our younger brigade (under 25's).

RANK HAWKS RATING SAINTS RATING

1 Buddy 9 Riewoldt 8
2 Roughie 8 BJ 8
3 Hodge 8 Chips 8
4 Bateman 7 Hayes 7
5 Mitchell 7 Hughton 7 (>30)
6 Brown 7 Ball 7
7 Williams 7 NDS 7
8 Sewell 7 Milne 7 (>30)
9 Cyril 7 Kosi 6
10 Croad 7 (>30) Gilbert 6

TOTAL 74 71

Poor analysis.

1. Reiwoldt is a better player than Franklin. Consistency is something most seem to forget. consistency? franklin is on 21! how can he be consistent at that age? he just kicked how many goals last year? im a huge riewoltd fan.... but gee whiz, franklin is something else..

2. Hodge is pushing 9's.
yep hes good.

3. Mitchell is between a 8 and 9. Closer to 9.
mitch aint that great. good player though - but slow.

4. Roughead is not an 8 yet. Once again, consistency.
geez hes not far off - for his age...

5. Cyril is no where near a 7. Period.

cyril is very very very good. ceates goals. pressure. makes stuff from nothing. youd be crazy to unerestimate him.

6. Gilbert is not in our top ten.

And most importantly the improvement needs to come from the senior playing group. Nick Dal Santo, Koschitzke and Ball are all capable of pushing 9's. That is where the difference will come from.

"capable of pushing 9's" - see that is what i have been reading here for 5 years. Fantasy. kosi is a 6. and ball is just maybe a 7. they are miles off 9's - miles off. "capable of" means in the fantasy of someones heads.
kosi will only ever be a 6. and ball is punch drunk, a tad slow and doesnt have a penetrating kick (0f say a hodge)

[Con Gorozidis]

As it turns out I watched last year's GF for the second time, tonight.

Hawthorn were the luckiest litter of bitches I've ever seen win a flag.

I couldn't aggree more. They will struggle this year.

yeah really lucky. they won fair and square. and they pumped us in the pre-lim. was that lucky too?

[saint66au]

Hawthorn won the flag last year

St Kilda didnt

Here endeth the comparison

[Saints94]

Lenny Hayes rated 7 ............. poor judgement mate he is easily a 8 or 9