Belvedere Reserve Articles

[saintbart]

I found two articles in the local newspaper here in Mornington, but could not find a link when I went to their website. There website is here: http://mornington.yourguide.com.au/ if anyone can find it. I typed out both articles anyway.

SAINTS GET NOD

St Kilda Football Club has been given the go-ahead to build a training and administration complex at Belvedere Reserve in Seaford, despite many objections from nearby residents.

In approving the plans at last Monday's planning and submissions meeting, Frankston council appears to have exploited loopholes in its own planning scheme.

The $10.25 million building is described by the council as a "minor sports and recreation facility".

The Frankston planning scheme defines a minor sports and recreation facility as "land used for leisure, recreation or sport, without substantial provision for spectators, and which is open to non-paying spectators."

Despite the council's insistence that the people of Frankston will embrace the Saints, the proposal for Belvedere Reserve does not include any provision for specators.

The plans for Belvedere Reserve include training facilities for 40 players with a gyn, swimmin pool and sports hall; and room for 44 staff. There is parking for 100 vehicles.

The council has already agreed to construct an MCG-sized playing surface at the reserve.

Councillors Brad Hill and Glenn Aitken voted against the proposal.

"I'm not against St Kilda coming to Frankston, but I don't think Belvedere Reserve is the right place," Cr Hill said. "It's obvious the resident of the area don't want it."

Seaford resident Craig Ashley presented councillors with a petition signed by 30 residents opposed to the proposal on the grounds it would lead to increased traffic and noise, out-of-hours activity and parking difficulties.

Mr Ashley said he was surprised when only three people made objections to the council after the proposal was advertised just before Christmas.

"With Christmas and everything, people just didn't have time to make objections and my feeling was that people were against it. When I took the petition around, everybody signed it," he said.

Mr Ashely said St Kilda had tried to allay his fears of large specttor crowds, saying about 20 people attend training sessions at Moorabbin.

"But I reckon there are more St Kilda fans down this way and the council is encouraging everyone to get behind the team."

And the 2nd article:

COUNCIL DEAL WITH SAINTS TO BE SECRET

Frankston Council will not release details of its $4 million-plus deal with St Kilda Football Club contained in the heads of agreement because the footy club has asked it not to.

Former Mayor Alistar Wardle defended the secrecy at last Monday week's council meeting, saying: "St Kilda has rrequest this and we need to abide by our partner's wishes."

Cr Wardle said the process had been transparent and subject to "rigorous probity" and therefore people should not be concerned about the details being kept secret.

The decision not to release the information angered some of the new councillors, including Brad Hill, who said the amount of ratepayer's money - almost 4 per cent of the annual budget - warranted public disclosure.

"The only transparent thing about this deal is that it is completly invisible," Cr Hill said.

The dispute played out when councillors had to vote whether to approve the lease arrangements for the 3780-square-metre site at Belvedere Reserve, Seaford.

Despite voting for the deal, Cr Christine Richards said she was unhappy with the $1 a year pepercorn lease.

"It's a bridge too far," she said. Cr Richards pointed to a similar deal for two kiosks in the Wells Street entertainment complex, which were now leased at commercial rates.

It is understood that under the terms of the deal, St Kilda will also be able to sublet the facilities to other parties and keep the revenue.

Cr Hill also questioned the forecast $42.5 million annual economic benefit to the city, saying the figure 'didn't add up".

Cr Kris Bolam was the only councillor to oppose the deal, citing the global economic downturn and restrictions on public access.

Councillors David Asker and Glenn Aitken supported it, saying it would be positive for the community. Cr Asker said it was a "golden opportunity" and the the council should be "proud and honoured" to have the Saints in the city.

Two days after the meeting, it was reported in The Age that the Saints had posted a $445,566 loss for the 2008 season, despite winning the NAB Cup.

[Solar]

their a beauty aren't they....

over 9 million to be spent on facilities and they use a petition of 30, yes 30 people to argue against it. When put to the public only three people objected

love to see them when development really starts to come to town

[cowboy18]

Thanks for taking the time to type those out - much appeciated.


I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

[GrumpyOne]

Thanks for taking the time to type those out - much appeciated.


I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Perception doesn't exist on this forum.

How dare you bring it up in a thread.

[barks4eva]

I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

[Solar]

I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

barks, which board member?

plus on th confidentiality of the deal, that is usual when it comes to commercial developments.

[barks4eva]

I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

barks, which board member?

rather not say

[stinger]

sure....


not the one you were seen talking to last night before the meeting?????

[GrumpyOne]

I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

You have put your emotive spin on those facts B4.

The Board were impressed by the opportunities at Frankston that were presented by Archie.

The State Govt and the AFL were leaning very heavily on the Board to make a decision, and the very future of our club was under threat if it was not made promptly.

Sounds better that way, doesn't it.

The evil ones in all this were not Archie and the Board. That role belongs to the City of Kingston.

[Solar]

I may be naive to the ways of the commercial world but keeping these deals clandestine does nothing to change the perception that there is something murky about the nature of the arrangements?

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

barks, which board member?

rather not say

do you relise that all this "a senior player" and "board member" crap doesn't lend any cred to your argument. I understand the whole idea of keeping your contacts private but most people add meat to their arguement and not rely on "a board member told me" type of tripe.

[barks4eva]

I understand the whole idea of keeping your contacts private.

Thankyou, I knew you'd understand!

[sunsaint]

call me naive, but how on earth could this facility generate $45mil in revenue? IS there a pot of gold buried in the middle of the "MCG sized" oval the board know about?

[kaos theory]

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

FFS barks - you write crap.

Honestly, you have ZERO knowledge about how the real world works, yet that doesn't seem to stop you carrying out like a lunatic.

FACT: There were two options available to our club:

- Cranborne
- Seaford/Frankston

There is NOTHING else that is FEASIBLE. Do you understand what feasible means?

We are a mid sized footy club with about $20m turnover. WE are NOT BHP Billiton. We cannot afford to spend millions on lawyers, lobbyists, etc. to try to push through some inner city option, so that you can go to training, and then stop off at a ‘cool’ cafe on the way out and sip lattes.

The previous admin wasted 100s of thousands dollars trying to get Moorabbin to work, but failed. It failed because it is a COMPLEX and COSTLY business to try to get a major development planned, agreed, approved and then built.

To pick a spot that looks central and ‘hip’ to you out of the Melways, and then to come on here and rant endlessly about it, is time wasting and annoying to sane people.

[casey scorp]

http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 42353.aspx

Saints' Seaford base approved

http://frankston.yourguide.com.au/news/ ... 42369.aspx


Call to spend on clubs, not Saints


Despite approval having been given, it seems there is a bit of angst amongst some of the local Councillors and residents. Some of the issues appear to be:

• the Council allegedly exploiting loopholes in its own planning scheme (although I think the objectors have misread the scheme provisions)
• Belvedere Park is not the right place (within the City of Frankston) for the St Kilda development
• increased traffic
• parking problems
• out-of-hours activities
• timing of public notification of the application and the consequent public information session and objector meeting around the Christmas period
• $50,000 to be spent on maintenance of oval would be better spent upgrading infrastructure at local sports grounds
• not convinced about the claimed $42.5 million economic benefit to the municipality of St KFC moving in
• the additional $800,000 to be spent on upgrading the oval could have been better spent on local sports clubs
• the annual rental of $1/year is inadequate
• the secrecy around the deal causes concern for some of the Councillors.


But, apart from a possible appeal, it should be all plain sailing from here for the club (except for the minor matter of being responsible for $1.43 million + any other costs).

Mind you at the AGM if ther4e had been Frankston reps present there would undoubtedly have been some misgivings. A couple of comments from the stage:

In response to a question about the future of the social club facility at Linton Street - "it's part of the grand plan to move everything to Seaford eventually". This was put in the context of (I though he said) a 40 year lease of the land from Kingston Council (although I think it is closer to 30 years).

In explaining the benefits of Seaford vis-a-vis Moorabbin, it seems the club is relying on Frankston Council maintaining the new oval at Seaford, thereby saving $400,000 of maintenance expenditure. Now we've had discussion on here in the past about the cost of maintenance of an oval, and if anyone thinks it's $400k they've got rocks in their head. But the fact that the club announces that Frankston ratepayers are saving the club $400k annually by maintaining the oval for them might just make the burghers nervous.

[barks4eva]

To pick a spot that looks central and ‘hip’ to you out of the Melways, and then to come on here and rant endlessly about it, is time wasting and annoying to sane people.

Please accept my apologies, I wasn't aware that sane people actually choose to visit this site!

[stinger]

Agree, what is all the secrecy about!

One thing I do know is that Archie could fair dinkum sell ice to eskimo's and the current board were very impressed by Archie's hard sell of Frankston/Seaford!

Once the initial deal fell through, the Belvedere Park location and proposal was rushed through because the board felt that it needed to make a quick decision!

I was told this straight from a board member, FACT!

FFS barks - you write crap.

Honestly, you have ZERO knowledge about how the real world works, yet that doesn't seem to stop you carrying out like a lunatic.

FACT: There were two options available to our club:

- Cranborne
- Seaford/Frankston

There is NOTHING else that is FEASIBLE. Do you understand what feasible means?

We are a mid sized footy club with about $20m turnover. WE are NOT BHP Billiton. We cannot afford to spend millions on lawyers, lobbyists, etc. to try to push through some inner city option, so that you can go to training, and then stop off at a ‘cool’ cafe on the way out and sip lattes.

The previous admin wasted 100s of thousands dollars trying to get Moorabbin to work, but failed. It failed because it is a COMPLEX and COSTLY business to try to get a major development planned, agreed, approved and then built.

To pick a spot that looks central and ‘hip’ to you out of the Melways, and then to come on here and rant endlessly about it, is time wasting and annoying to sane people.

thank god for kaos and sanity ...who knew they went hand in hand.......