Whens OUR turn for a first year gun??

[saint66au]

I know this is gonna sound pretty impatient, but for the last few years Ive seen most other teams have one player who slots straight out of the draft into the senior side and makes a real impact in theior first year

Pendlebury, Selwood, Palmer, Rioli....and I know its early days but both Hill and Rich look like adding to that list in 09. Both looked very much at ease in the big time over the weekend.

So..whens our turn? Is it a coincidence that the last 2 flags have been won by teams including at leat one "gun" draft pick? is that what we need to help take the next step?

Who was our last player to make a REAL impact in season one? Id say Kosi...remembering that Luke Ball didnt play footy in his first season with us.

Connors, Steven...and of the new kids Heyne and Lynch...wouldnt it be nice to see at least 2 of them score a rising star nomination and at least one of them become an automatic selection Round 1 and keep their spot all year? Actually not just nice..I reckon its pretty much compulsory if we are to threaten for a flag!

Thoughts?

[plugger66]

I know this is gonna sound pretty impatient, but for the last few years Ive seen most other teams have one player who slots straight out of the draft into the senior side and makes a real impact in theior first year

Pendlebury, Selwood, Palmer, Rioli....and I know its early days but both Hill and Rich look like adding to that list in 09. Both looked very much at ease in the big time over the weekend.

So..whens our turn? Is it a coincidence that the last 2 flags have been won by teams including at leat one "gun" draft pick? is that what we need to help take the next step?

Who was our last player to make a REAL impact in season one? Id say Kosi...remembering that Luke Ball didnt play footy in his first season with us.

Connors, Steven...and of the new kids Heyne and Lynch...wouldnt it be nice to see at least 2 of them score a rising star nomination and at least one of them become an automatic selection Round 1 and keep their spot all year? Actually not just nice..I reckon its pretty much compulsory if we are to threaten for a flag!

Thoughts?

Pretty sure thats why we spend more money on recruiting now and a new recruitment person. Whether he is the answer we will not know for another year or so but what you say is correct. Our kids have had minimal impact in the last 6 years.

[WayneJudson42]

Why do we need a 1st year player to win a flag?

Why wouldn't Ray possibly be that extra spark?

Why can't you win a flag by getting a 10% improvement from existing players who had an average season last year?

Who gives a stuff about Rising Star nominations?

[saint66au]

Why do we need a 1st year player to win a flag?

Why wouldn't Ray possibly be that extra spark?

Why can't you win a flag by getting a 10% improvement from existing players who had an average season last year?

Who gives a stuff about Rising Star nominations?

Yes you can win a flag with the improvement that you stated...and I hope Ray has a stellar season...but I still think that the odd breakout game or games from the newbies can go a long way to providing an "edge" as well. when was the last time you saw a 1st or 2nd year player listed in our Top 3 best? Yes CJ once or twice perhaps in 08 but we was a mature-age recruit and cops more flak on here than just about anyone.

Along with Sydney, weve had less Rising Star nominations in the last 5 years than any other Club. the Rising Star nominations mark the kids of the AFL against each other....and the fact that weve only had 2 in 4 years indicates to me that our kids dont stand out when promoted..or arent doing enough in the VFL to get a regular game..

[vacuous space]

Thoughts?

We're a strong club, so it's a lot harder for a first year player to crack our lineup than, say, for Stephen Hill to crack the Dockers lineup. Take Palmer for instance - where would he fit in? He's definitely not at the level of Goddard, Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo and Montagna. He'd probably be rotating in off the bench at best if he were here. Rich would have the same problem Armo does.

Rioli dropped into the ideal situation for him and the Hawks. Selwood was the best first year player this league has seen in a long time. Both of those were rare situations. Neither Heyne nor Lynch are likely to be needed this year the way Rioli was at the Hawks. Neither of them can claim to be as AFL ready or near as good as Selwood was when he joined Geelong.

Both of them would be behind the likes of Armo, Geary and Steven, who are probably behind the likes of Bakes, Xavier Clarke and Clinton Jones. They'll do their AFL apprenticeship and, in a year or two (maybe more), they'll be more mature and ready to contribute the way Sam Fisher was in 05, Jason Gram was in 06, Sam Gilbert was in 07 and Jones was last year.

[older saint]

AFL is the only game in the world where supporters and the media expect 18 year old boys to come in and have an immediate impact on a mans game. This game is one of the most hard on the body games that exists. Young bodies going up against solid hard men week in week out.

Sure you will get the odd freak - Judd, but Rioli, and even Selwood were able to come in under the radar with not much hype and perform because of what was around them. Ablett, Corey, Bartel, Ling, - Buddy, Roughhead, Williams, Crawford,. From this they get confidence and by seasons end they haven't taken as many hits and are fresher, as they rate 15 + on ratings by opposition teams during the season.

I actually think StKilda have done OK - Bigs recruited always take about 2 years before they really show anything (McEvoy).

For StKilda to take the next step it is not reliant on Lynch or Heyne, but on guys in the system for 2-3 years to become regular contributing Senior players: Armitage, Stevens, McEvoy ( to a degree), Geary, Eddy, Gilbert, R Clarke, etc.

Look at Hawthorn , B Sewell played a lot of Reserves football and was almost traded to Melbourne, but stuck at it , worked hard and is now a quality midfielder, same with Ling- he played junior footy at FF.

Be Patient please

[saint66au]

For StKilda to take the next step it is not reliant on Lynch or Heyne, but on guys in the system for 2-3 years to become regular contributing Senior players: Armitage, Stevens, McEvoy ( to a degree), Geary, Eddy, Gilbert, R Clarke, etc.

Agree 100% with this and would never think we'd rely on a Lynch or Heyne. Just frustrating sometimes that our kids dont seem able to even have one "wow" gamewhere everything goes right for them, scores them a RS nomination and a peek at what they will be like consitantly as their bodies and minds DO mature.

Armo and Mini (1st round pick mids) have been surrounded by pretty handy midfielders over their careers would you not agree? Yet 5 seasons between them and no nominations? Not even one game where we've all gone "Oh wow he can seriously play!!"

[WayneJudson42]

Why do we need a 1st year player to win a flag?

Why wouldn't Ray possibly be that extra spark?

Why can't you win a flag by getting a 10% improvement from existing players who had an average season last year?

Who gives a stuff about Rising Star nominations?

Yes you can win a flag with the improvement that you stated...and I hope Ray has a stellar season...but I still think that the odd breakout game or games from the newbies can go a long way to providing an "edge" as well. when was the last time you saw a 1st or 2nd year player listed in our Top 3 best? Yes CJ once or twice perhaps in 08 but we was a mature-age recruit and cops more flak on here than just about anyone.

Along with Sydney, weve had less Rising Star nominations in the last 5 years than any other Club. the Rising Star nominations mark the kids of the AFL against each other....and the fact that weve only had 2 in 4 years indicates to me that our kids dont stand out when promoted..or arent doing enough in the VFL to get a regular game..

And sydney won a flag 3 years ago. So there goes your argument.

Our edge in 2009 will come consistancy of effort across the board.

The fact that we had only 2 in 4 years indicates that our recruiting in the past was more "top up" than youth policy.. but that's another can of worms.

[battye]

I agree with saint66au, it is frustrating to see none of our younger players "bursting on the scene" like some from other clubs have.

Our on-field success and that we haven't had any really high draft picks for a long time is probably a contributing factor.

[evertonfc]

AFL is the only game in the world where supporters and the media expect 18 year old boys to come in and have an immediate impact on a mans game.

I'm with Battye/S66AU here. We haven't had a player do well out immediately out of the draft since Koschitzke. Even Riewoldt showed plenty the year after, as did Ball (injury for the former, school the latter).

It's disheartening, because they give the whole club such a boost.

Our first round draft picks since 2003 have read: Raph, McQualter, Fergus Watts (traded for pick 17), Armitage, Ben McEvoy and Tom Lynch. Not one of them has given us any buzz or cause to go 'this guy is the future of the club' (hard to put Lynch in that category, to be fair).

We seem to have lost the art of drafting and developing, which is why I breathed a huge sigh of relief when we added 14 new players to our list - maybe we'll remember how to bring kids through the club.

[SainterK]

Yes and no,

Some players continue to shine once being widely acknowledged as a young gun, while for others the added pressure becomes a negative influence...

[sunsaint]

Saint66au is absolutely right, to argue ortherwise is rediculous.

[bigcarl]

i was busy on saturday night and couldn't give the second half my full attention.

did heyne get a kick? i've heard he's promising.

[Batnoe]

I guess Eljay and Steven are underage so they would have or could have been in this years draft. We havent had a top 10 draft pick since Armo, so i understand why we dont have that player that will make immediate impact once they play

Selwood was a steal at pick 7

[WayneJudson42]

Constant finishes in the top 8, not to mention top 4, don't exactly aloow us to recruit "guns". Then again, what would I know?

Look at hwo these "guns" are and where their team was when they were drafted. Maybe Rioli is the exception.

At least full resources are now being diverted in the right areas.

[saintspremiers]

AFL is the only game in the world where supporters and the media expect 18 year old boys to come in and have an immediate impact on a mans game. This game is one of the most hard on the body games that exists. Young bodies going up against solid hard men week in week out.

Sure you will get the odd freak - Judd, but Rioli, and even Selwood were able to come in under the radar with not much hype and perform because of what was around them. Ablett, Corey, Bartel, Ling, - Buddy, Roughhead, Williams, Crawford,. From this they get confidence and by seasons end they haven't taken as many hits and are fresher, as they rate 15 + on ratings by opposition teams during the season.

I actually think StKilda have done OK - Bigs recruited always take about 2 years before they really show anything (McEvoy).

For StKilda to take the next step it is not reliant on Lynch or Heyne, but on guys in the system for 2-3 years to become regular contributing Senior players: Armitage, Stevens, McEvoy ( to a degree), Geary, Eddy, Gilbert, R Clarke, etc.

Look at Hawthorn , B Sewell played a lot of Reserves football and was almost traded to Melbourne, but stuck at it , worked hard and is now a quality midfielder, same with Ling- he played junior footy at FF.

Be Patient please

Nah, bugger being patient.

What Saint66au is 100% spot on.

Yes, in general we do have to be patient with a vast majority of kids, but time and again a smokey comes up from nowhere and sets the world alight.

The beauty of the first year gun player, is that the opposition aren't prepared to counter him, and it relives pressure on a few of the name players.

Yes, Kosi is perhaps the last first year gun, but he was a number 1 pick, just as you'd expect!

At least our rookie list is starting to work, but ideally we need a senior list player to stand and deliver.

I've got some prayers on Choo Choo doing something special, but maybe that's just all wishful thinking!