Chris McDermott Is A Fool!!!

[PJ]

Quote "People do care. Otherwise they wouldn't react."

Of course they care - that's the whole point.

Here's another thing about advertising - organisations don't really give a sh*t about people they're just interested in their own image and making money so they talk one way. They leach off people's lives and spray it all back for their own reward.

That's the thing about posting - it's not about talking down to people.
The good part is that people have different opinions to you so it gives you perspective. I've got a reasonable amount of footy knowledge but plenty of posters have got probably way more than me and see it more first hand so i like hearing what they have to say.

If you fob them off by calling them "morons" or condescendingly "genius" your no better than the advertisers. Name calling is "numbskullery" of the highest order.

I actually don't really give a sh*t about the ladder but you can see how easy it is to make a point and some people may think that way. It's perhaps a good start point as I've said but not everything e.g. Hawthorn will proabably go OK maybe probably Melb won't. You then go on to make points.

Back to the OP - Chris McDermott may be a fool - but not because he's given us a low ladder position.

Oh and by the way the word is pontification.

[/quote]

[PJ]

Actually, many objective observers totally agree with you..

Tweeds do you actually have an opinion?

[tweedaletomanning]

Actually, many objective observers totally agree with you..

Tweeds do you actually have an opinion?

Yes.

After recently watching the 2 finals against the grand finalists(yes i am a night owl and a masochist),

My opinion is that if Rooey doesn't get some SIGNIFICANT help in the forward line, we're in trouble.

Milne has been exceptional, but he can't play the role as the second tall forward that we desperately need, obviously.

[PJ]

Agree that our forward line was crap but not that Roo carried the team. Yes if he lifts the team lifts too but the argument is simplistic, condescending and smacks of GT Love.

Regardless of whether you like or dislike our gamestyle the results last year were equivalent to anything since 1997.

The pounding in the finals - yes you guessed it, originated from the centre. Lenny was our only presence and the entry into the 50 was less than desirable. Fix the the midfield and you begin to improve our problems significantly. Watch the recent games against Geelong it stands out like DB's.

Whether we can do this or not is yet to be seen but it seems like RL has a plan that is well structured.

I don't wish to denegrate GT because he was massively important for the saints at the time but I think the planning on-field had well and truely run dry.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

McDermott is a douche...

simple

most journo's can be listened to for at least a minute before your mind wanders or questions why they are opening their yappers or tapping down on a keyboard...

but this man has nfi....

[PJ]

Bone by name but it aptly describes his head.

[Richter]

Players such as Ball, NDS, Goddard, Roo, Kosi, Sam Fish, Clarkesx2, Gram, Maguire should be all at their prime at the same time.

Most of those players you mentioned have been at their prime for 2-3 years and we havent improved in that time. As I said improvement must come from the younger group.

I'd say that in terms of age most players reach their prime as AFL players in the age bracket 24-28. Of that list Sam Fisher is the oldest at 26 and Raph Clarke the youngest at 23.

It is clearly debatable whether or not certain players have reached their prime and how much more they may improve - Roo for instance could hardly improve much more having been a veritable star for 5 years now, whereas Sam Fisher at the same age is a later developer and probably still has his best days still ahead of him.

Which is why you go back to demographics. Which surely don't lie.

Oh and I missed out Leigh Montagna and Adam Schneider from that list. That's a total of 12 players from the same 3 year age group who are all guns coming through together. Whilst we have nothing like that talent coming through in the ages 20-23 that is a worry for the years to follow....

[plugger66]

Players such as Ball, NDS, Goddard, Roo, Kosi, Sam Fish, Clarkesx2, Gram, Maguire should be all at their prime at the same time.

Most of those players you mentioned have been at their prime for 2-3 years and we havent improved in that time. As I said improvement must come from the younger group.

I'd say that in terms of age most players reach their prime as AFL players in the age bracket 24-28. Of that list Sam Fisher is the oldest at 26 and Raph Clarke the youngest at 23.

It is clearly debatable whether or not certain players have reached their prime and how much more they may improve - Roo for instance could hardly improve much more having been a veritable star for 5 years now, whereas Sam Fisher at the same age is a later developer and probably still has his best days still ahead of him.

Which is why you go back to demographics. Which surely don't lie.

Oh and I missed out Leigh Montagna and Adam Schneider from that list. That's a total of 12 players from the same 3 year age group who are all guns coming through together. Whilst we have nothing like that talent coming through in the ages 20-23 that is a worry for the years to follow....

The last statement is the reason that the 2nd and 3rd year players have to improve. For last 6 years we have talent at the top end and their improvement will be small at best so it is up to others to improve for team to improve a group.

[saintspremiers]

Players such as Ball, NDS, Goddard, Roo, Kosi, Sam Fish, Clarkesx2, Gram, Maguire should be all at their prime at the same time.

Most of those players you mentioned have been at their prime for 2-3 years and we havent improved in that time. As I said improvement must come from the younger group.

I'd say that in terms of age most players reach their prime as AFL players in the age bracket 24-28. Of that list Sam Fisher is the oldest at 26 and Raph Clarke the youngest at 23.

It is clearly debatable whether or not certain players have reached their prime and how much more they may improve - Roo for instance could hardly improve much more having been a veritable star for 5 years now, whereas Sam Fisher at the same age is a later developer and probably still has his best days still ahead of him.

Which is why you go back to demographics. Which surely don't lie.

Oh and I missed out Leigh Montagna and Adam Schneider from that list. That's a total of 12 players from the same 3 year age group who are all guns coming through together. Whilst we have nothing like that talent coming through in the ages 20-23 that is a worry for the years to follow....

The last statement is the reason that the 2nd and 3rd year players have to improve. For last 6 years we have talent at the top end and their improvement will be small at best so it is up to others to improve for team to improve a group.

correct. Otherwise, if the youngun's don't improve in 09 and 10, we'll be like the Aussie cricket team circa end of last year - full of champions in their 30's!

[bigcarl]

My other fear, and one that I believe pretty much factual, is that Reiwoldt completely carried us last year.

When he started slowly, so did we. When he started winning games off his own boot, we started winning.

The second half of the year, I believe, was pretty much solely due to Riewoldt.

That's a very dangerous position to be in.

yes, we've an unhealthy reliance on him and have had for years now.

along with improvement in the midfield we desperately need another key forward who can contribute 50-plus goals.

with one (and a much more attacking, bolder mindset) i think we're a real chance in 2009.

witjhout one we can't expect to do any better than we did in 2008.

[Teflon]

Agree that our forward line was crap but not that Roo carried the team. Yes if he lifts the team lifts too but the argument is simplistic, condescending and smacks of GT Love.

Regardless of whether you like or dislike our gamestyle the results last year were equivalent to anything since 1997.

The pounding in the finals - yes you guessed it, originated from the centre. Lenny was our only presence and the entry into the 50 was less than desirable. Fix the the midfield and you begin to improve our problems significantly. Watch the recent games against Geelong it stands out like DB's.

Whether we can do this or not is yet to be seen but it seems like RL has a plan that is well structured.

I don't wish to denegrate GT because he was massively important for the saints at the time but I think the planning on-field had well and truely run dry.

We do need tolook at our FWD 50 structure but yep I agree with you and thought the midfield was really shown up after Ball (the Hayes chop out) went down. Against Hawks in finals we were brushed aside.

I know I will be shot for this...its 1 of my main reasons why I had St Kilda as the MOST to gain per club from a Ben Cousins....but we move on..

Im not sure where that midfield lift is going to come from - IMO it HAS to be the likes of Goddard but who else? Yes we can all throw in Sam Fisher....but is he really a mid? Gram to me is a second string mid (goes missing) as does Montagna still (good players but not at that consistently top level) Hopefully they move up a gear in 09.....Im sounding desperate.

I dont believe Mqualters etc are the answer but am happy to be proven wrong. Armitage NEEDS to establish himself in the 22 this year and we must pray the Jones/Eddy's/Geary's can contribute often on the big stage...again...not brimming with confidence.....I am sure they can on their day do a job....but thats a long way from consistent perfoming over 22 weeks plus finals......
I do believe Lyon understands this and will be planning for this and I take hope that Sydney had a knack for getting the most out of what many described as a no-name midfield.......Im all for "generic labels" as long as it comes with a cup in September....

[PJ]

The midfield must work as a group not individual star efforts that's what most are missing.

We can't be clutching to the idea that someone is going to have an outstanding year and save the day. No superstars. Even effort across the group with each doing their role.

It's way harder to shut down 22 working evenly than a hand full of superstars. This is the element of Sydney that Ross has brought - no slackers, no d*ckheads.

What is going to be interesting is finding the right combinations that click.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

its been said a million times but the lack of rookies/young draftees coming through espeically midfielders has hurt us

yes goddard and s fish provide a major part to the solution but so do the players in waiting, the young players that will take their spots on the flanks both down back and forward

to be successful this club needs its better players in their most effective positions

we will not win the flag with goddard and sam fisher playing in the back half, regardless of how well they kick, spoil and mark

[bigcarl]

Im not sure where that midfield lift is going to come from.

apart from the ones you mentioned, raph clarke is definitely worth a shot there.

blake has also been effective as a ruck rover (or pinch-hitting ruckman) through his career. he's no superstar, but for some reason the midfield has often looked and worked better with him in it.

and apparently ross is pretty impressed with this heyne, so he might be a bit of a bolter.

there's also leigh fisher and even baker (if he can get back to what he was) to consider.

of the ones you mentioned, hayes and ball obviously are vital cogs.

gram is capable of cutting loose and dominating a lesser opponent. so is the inconsistent montagna.

cj is a goer and quick, so he should be strongly considered as part of the rotation.

i've a feeling that one of bj/fisher (probably fisher) will be used as a second key forward in an attempt to make us not so one-dimensional in attack.

the other should be used on the ball or the wing, not the half backline where we have capable alternatives.

what of dal santo?

i'm not convinced he's a gut-running midfielder. he just might not have the tank to be able to run off the opposition's best tagger every week.

i am convinced that he's a superbly-skilled player, though. slot him in on the half forward line and watch him do some real damage.

'

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Im not sure where that midfield lift is going to come from.

apart from the ones you mentioned, raph clarke is definitely worth a shot in the midfield.

blake has also been effective as a ruck rover (or pinch-hitting ruckman) through his career. he's no superstar, but for some reason the midfield has often looked and worked better with him in it.

and apparently ross is pretty impressed with this heyne, so he might be a bit of a bolter.

why raph clarke??? whenever he gets the ball most supporters still cringe...don't lie

so he played well in 3 games in september...he was unmarked entirely...remember when goddard played that role he was still criticized???

remember??? or are we going to easily forget that due to raph have epilepsy??? not being harsh...but it seems an excuse for him from supporters

on he contrary jason blake plays much better when he has more to do, when he plays on the last line of defence he looks lost at times and has the usual 'blake-isms'...however on the ball or around it he looks much better, he seems to play off instinct instead of using his head too much given the time and making a shmozzle of the situation

[bigcarl]

why raph clarke??? whenever he gets the ball most supporters still cringe ... don't lie

i think many are coming around on him actually.

ross said this week the club considered him best on ground in the final we won. i thought so, too.

he also was named our most promising player for 2008.

i'm expecting a big season from him. very talented player in my opinion and his form running into the 2008 finals gave us some real impetus.

could be a ball magnet in the midfield.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

why raph clarke??? whenever he gets the ball most supporters still cringe ... don't lie

i think many are coming around on him actually.

ross said this week the club considered him best on ground in the final we won. i thought so too.

he also was named our most promising player for 2008.

i'm expecting a big season from him. very talented player in my opinion.

could be a ball magnet in the midfield.

i trust what ross says however its going to take me a little more than that to come around, and by god i hope he proves me wrong, he has shown glimpses much like armitage - moment or two in games are useless unless you carry it out for 4 quarters

and he was named our most promising player because none of the other youngen's did anything of note, they debuted and played no frills football, nothing flashy or special

raph ran the lines in the finals and got noticed

[bigcarl]

none of the other youngen's did anything of note, they debuted and played no-frills football, nothing flashy or special

i thought they played no-impact football to be honest.

it was certainly "no-thrills football" and you are right that there was nothing special about it.

raph, on the other hand, got a lot of the football and did something with it.

i applaud a young guy showing a bit of flair and taking chances. it shows he's backing himself and not trembling at the thought of being dropped if he makes a mistake.

we need more like him, players who are willing to take a few risks.

they can't all be dour shut-down artists and nor would you want them to be.

guys like armitage and eddy need to step up like raph has.

[PJ]

Gotta agree with bigcarl here Raph looked really good but more than that he looked consistent, confident and no clangers. The style he played in all the last games was really consistent.

[Saints94]

3rd Pies We have more talls then we have small guys and we have the same talents as Geelong or Hawthorn etc........... This guy knows F*** all about footy

[Saints Premiers 2008]

none of the other youngen's did anything of note, they debuted and played no-frills football, nothing flashy or special

i thought they played no-impact football to be honest.

it was certainly "no-thrills football" and you are right that there was nothing special about it.

raph, on the other hand, got a lot of the football and did something with it.

i applaud a young guy showing a bit of flair and taking chances. it shows he's backing himself and not trembling at the thought of being dropped if he makes a mistake.

we need more like him, players who are willing to take a few risks.

they can't all be dour shut-down artists and nor would you want them to be.

guys like armitage and eddy need to step up like raph has.

you are right on the no-impact football bit...i tried to sugar-coat it all..

basically the young players would get 10 touches playing most of the game doing nothing of note

perhaps we cream ourselves over armitage due to him coming out with the superb play per game that holds us over until the next week where he tackles someone once again

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Im not sure where that midfield lift is going to come from.

apart from the ones you mentioned, raph clarke is definitely worth a shot in the midfield.

blake has also been effective as a ruck rover (or pinch-hitting ruckman) through his career. he's no superstar, but for some reason the midfield has often looked and worked better with him in it.

and apparently ross is pretty impressed with this heyne, so he might be a bit of a bolter.

why raph clarke??? whenever he gets the ball most supporters still cringe...don't lie

so he played well in 3 games in september...he was unmarked entirely...remember when goddard played that role he was still criticized???

remember??? or are we going to easily forget that due to raph have epilepsy??? not being harsh...but it seems an excuse for him from supporters

on he contrary jason blake plays much better when he has more to do, when he plays on the last line of defence he looks lost at times and has the usual 'blake-isms'...however on the ball or around it he looks much better, he seems to play off instinct instead of using his head too much given the time and making a shmozzle of the situation

Raph Clarke also finished the season with 3 good games. I think the big positive people saw with Raph is that over that period of 6 games, he played each game better than the last - he was one of the few who could hold his head high after the Hawthorn game, and was phenomenal during the Collingwood game.

IMO, the most important thing he did was truly take on the role a loose defender should - whether the opposition tries to match them up or not - backing into contested situations, running with and without the ball, and providing rebound and defensive marking.

The Goddard comparison is quite apt - while Raph will never be the user of the ball Goddard is (Raph is one sided and lacks Goddard's footy IQ), it's been an issue that while Goddard excels there, we've never been able to release him from the role and use his skills elsewhere... the position is one of those that's not necessarily difficult to play (in the context of an AFL side), but is difficult to play well. On one hand, it's a good position to blood kids, on the other, when you look at the really good sides, it's one where the players in that position truly stand out.

After many years of debating Raph, those final 6 games suggested that perhaps this was a role he could be one of those guys in, releasing Goddard in the same way that Blake releases Fisher.

If supporters are still cringing out of habit, they should get over it, he was never as bad as many like to make out, and he's given real reason to believe he's turned a corner. At the same time, we should be hesitant about deciding he's made it... 6 games does not a career make.

[Richter]

That's a total of 12 players from the same 3 year age group who are all guns coming through together. Whilst we have nothing like that talent coming through in the ages 20-23 that is a worry for the years to follow....

The last statement is the reason that the 2nd and 3rd year players have to improve. For last 6 years we have talent at the top end and their improvement will be small at best so it is up to others to improve for team to improve a group.

We seem to be deriveing different comclusions from the same information!

I see us as having around 16 players from the 23-26 age group, 6 from the 26+ and 6 from the under 23 group. The rest of our list are teenagers who I would be surprised if they have any impact until 3-4 years down the track.

I argue that the smaller (per man) improvement we are likely to see in the main group nevertheless because there are more of them, adds up to a larger effect than the greater (per man) improvement likely in the younger group.

Does that make some sense?

Basically I am saying that improvements in the likes of Goddard, Joey, Ball, Raph Clarke, X Clarke, Maguire are more vital in terms of potential premiership impact than that of Armitage, Gilbert, Allen, Eddy, Gwilt, Geary.

[plugger66]

That's a total of 12 players from the same 3 year age group who are all guns coming through together. Whilst we have nothing like that talent coming through in the ages 20-23 that is a worry for the years to follow....

The last statement is the reason that the 2nd and 3rd year players have to improve. For last 6 years we have talent at the top end and their improvement will be small at best so it is up to others to improve for team to improve a group.

We seem to be deriveing different comclusions from the same information!

I see us as having around 16 players from the 23-26 age group, 6 from the 26+ and 6 from the under 23 group. The rest of our list are teenagers who I would be surprised if they have any impact until 3-4 years down the track.

I argue that the smaller (per man) improvement we are likely to see in the main group nevertheless because there are more of them, adds up to a larger effect than the greater (per man) improvement likely in the younger group.

Does that make some sense?

Basically I am saying that improvements in the likes of Goddard, Joey, Ball, Raph Clarke, X Clarke, Maguire are more vital in terms of potential premiership impact than that of Armitage, Gilbert, Allen, Eddy, Gwilt, Geary.

Well thats where we differ because I am beleiver in the bottom 6 in the side being the difference between being a top side and a middle of the road side.