Chris McDermott Is A Fool!!!

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saint66au
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Post: # 692202Post saint66au »

rodgerfox wrote:I'm still amazed that people are still moronic enough to look at ladder positions in order to assess whether a team improved or not - or will improve the following year.
Well what other freaking benchmarks should we use?? Should the AFL sit down and repostion the Top 8 after Round 22 just in case someones in a postion they (according to you) dont deserve??

Your ability to pop up when theres something to whinge about, coupled with your propensity to find negatives in ANYTHING, is truly breathtaking sometimes. If McDermott had said we'd finish 2nd you'd lambast him for not having a clue, but because he said 13th, that fits in with your perpetually negative mindset so he's "on the money" :roll:

*sigh* sometimes its liking having Poochy around again


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Post: # 692205Post Mr Magic »

saint66au wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:I'm still amazed that people are still moronic enough to look at ladder positions in order to assess whether a team improved or not - or will improve the following year.
Well what other freaking benchmarks should we use?? Should the AFL sit down and repostion the Top 8 after Round 22 just in case someones in a postion they (according to you) dont deserve??

Your ability to pop up when theres something to whinge about, coupled with your propensity to find negatives in ANYTHING, is truly breathtaking sometimes. If McDermott had said we'd finish 2nd you'd lambast him for not having a clue, but because he said 13th, that fits in with your perpetually negative mindset so he's "on the money" :roll:

*sigh* sometimes its liking having Poochy around again
How long before the anti RL thread comes up?
Will it be before the season commences or will he at least wait until after we win Round 1?


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rodgerfox
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Post: # 692215Post rodgerfox »

saint66au wrote:
Well what other freaking benchmarks should we use?? Should the AFL sit down and repostion the Top 8 after Round 22 just in case someones in a postion they (according to you) dont deserve??
We were twice the team Collingwood was because they finished 8th, and we finished 4th. Froget the fact that they had a higher %, beat us during the year, and had only 1 less win than us.

However, we were only 2 spots behind Hawthorn. Froget the fact that they mauled us in a final, and won about 10 games more than us during the year. Oh, and they won the flag. But forget all that, just check the ladder positions as the best guage to how everyone is looking.


I agree with your logic that the ladder is a great benchmark to assess how well team's performed.

You're a genius.


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Post: # 692216Post BAM! (shhhh) »

rodgerfox wrote:Where are we going to improve?

Teams under us will improve, teams above us may not.

If we don't improve, we won't move up the ladder. If we don't improve, teams will overtake us.


I'm unsure where this improvement is going to come from.
If the Saints play as last sighted in the H&A 2008, that would be a genuine improvement on 2008 as a whole.

The Saints had an incredibly bipolar season (2nd half, only Geelong was better). I couldn't give a toss about the final 2008 ladder (with 3 teams well seperated from a very tight pack with little to seperate 4th from 6th, and the position decided in the late stages of a game against Essendon on %), but the right teams played off in the prelims, and the right teams played off on grand final day.

The problem isn't that if we don't improve for 2k9 we'll be overtaken - a drop from 4th to 13th would signify the Saints themselves had gone backwards, the league in general hasn't improved that much - the problem is if we don't improve, we'll definately be on the outer again on grand final day.

Where to look for improvement? Plenty of places - Armitage, Geary, McQualter, Raph and Xav Clarke, Robert Eddy, Matt Maguire, James Gwilt, Leigh Montagna, Jason Gram, Stephen Baker, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Adam Schneider, Jack Steven, Sam Gilbert, Justin Koschitzke, leigh Fisher. Even Hayes and Goddard have shown better form than was sighted during the Saints run home. Most of them won't improve so much as to turn games (and improvement may be balanced by someone going backward), but there's plenty to like about the '09 Saints when you get past predicting the premiers (and after teh Cats and Hawks, daylight would be next fav as of now).

Really, only Max, Reiwoldt and Fisher would be showing up for '09 without improvement being expected as they prepare to tackle the season.

When the papers start their preseason writeups, one thing a lot of them will suddenly notice is that taking the AFLs oldest player out of a list who's average age was middle of the pack will display a young list - it's challenge is to produce real impact players from lower draft picks to complement a quality core in it's prime. That's the mystery of St Kilda, they really need the 2nd tier to step up, and are short on guys in that range who have really looked likely to, but there are plenty of contending individuals, and they only need a couple to do so.

While I'd see a premiership prediction as January optomism, and even a top 4 prediction as being premature, I think to write the Saints out of finals is incredibly pessimistic. We're not closer, but we're closer than half the league.


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Post: # 692218Post spert »

rodgerfox wrote:
spert wrote:Hawthorn first positon on ladder -does that indicate any improvment from the previous year? Does Melbourne on the bottom indicate they had a bad year??
Sigh.
The more this thread goes on, the more I sigh too..


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Post: # 692220Post degruch »

rodgerfox wrote:
saint66au wrote:
Well what other freaking benchmarks should we use?? Should the AFL sit down and repostion the Top 8 after Round 22 just in case someones in a postion they (according to you) dont deserve??
We were twice the team Collingwood was because they finished 8th, and we finished 4th. Froget the fact that they had a higher %, beat us during the year, and had only 1 less win than us.

However, we were only 2 spots behind Hawthorn. Froget the fact that they mauled us in a final, and won about 10 games more than us during the year. Oh, and they won the flag. But forget all that, just check the ladder positions as the best guage to how everyone is looking.


I agree with your logic that the ladder is a great benchmark to assess how well team's performed.

You're a genius.
Wouldn't matter that the Hawks have struggled against us in recent years, and that we flogged 'em during the season quite convincingly with all stars on deck, plus they had a week off in the final. See, you can come up with a miriad of reasons to defend whatever side you want...but I'm surprised you'd need to rush to the defense of a talented St Kilda team that hasn't even played a game in 2009 yet. I don't think we're that far away from the Hawks or the Cats...but I'm happy to waiti til the season starts to be proven wrong.


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Post: # 692223Post rodgerfox »

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:Where are we going to improve?

Teams under us will improve, teams above us may not.

If we don't improve, we won't move up the ladder. If we don't improve, teams will overtake us.


I'm unsure where this improvement is going to come from.
If the Saints play as last sighted in the H&A 2008, that would be a genuine improvement on 2008 as a whole.

The Saints had an incredibly bipolar season (2nd half, only Geelong was better). I couldn't give a toss about the final 2008 ladder (with 3 teams well seperated from a very tight pack with little to seperate 4th from 6th, and the position decided in the late stages of a game against Essendon on %), but the right teams played off in the prelims, and the right teams played off on grand final day.

The problem isn't that if we don't improve for 2k9 we'll be overtaken - a drop from 4th to 13th would signify the Saints themselves had gone backwards, the league in general hasn't improved that much - the problem is if we don't improve, we'll definately be on the outer again on grand final day.

Where to look for improvement? Plenty of places - Armitage, Geary, McQualter, Raph and Xav Clarke, Robert Eddy, Matt Maguire, James Gwilt, Leigh Montagna, Jason Gram, Stephen Baker, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Adam Schneider, Jack Steven, Sam Gilbert, Justin Koschitzke, leigh Fisher. Even Hayes and Goddard have shown better form than was sighted during the Saints run home. Most of them won't improve so much as to turn games (and improvement may be balanced by someone going backward), but there's plenty to like about the '09 Saints when you get past predicting the premiers (and after teh Cats and Hawks, daylight would be next fav as of now).

Really, only Max, Reiwoldt and Fisher would be showing up for '09 without improvement being expected as they prepare to tackle the season.

When the papers start their preseason writeups, one thing a lot of them will suddenly notice is that taking the AFLs oldest player out of a list who's average age was middle of the pack will display a young list - it's challenge is to produce real impact players from lower draft picks to complement a quality core in it's prime. That's the mystery of St Kilda, they really need the 2nd tier to step up, and are short on guys in that range who have really looked likely to, but there are plenty of contending individuals, and they only need a couple to do so.

While I'd see a premiership prediction as January optomism, and even a top 4 prediction as being premature, I think to write the Saints out of finals is incredibly pessimistic. We're not closer, but we're closer than half the league.
A fair post.

This is the part that worries me though....

"Where to look for improvement? Plenty of places - Armitage, Geary, McQualter, Raph and Xav Clarke, Robert Eddy, Matt Maguire, James Gwilt, Leigh Montagna, Jason Gram, Stephen Baker, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Adam Schneider, Jack Steven, Sam Gilbert, Justin Koschitzke, leigh Fisher. Even Hayes and Goddard have shown better form than was sighted during the Saints run home."

Every club in the comp expects improvement from their middle tier. I don't know why people think we're alone here.


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Post: # 692224Post PJ »

I agree with your logic that the ladder is a great benchmark to assess how well team's performed.
Actually it is if you remove all the subjective arguments for and against.
You're a genius.
This really makes your argument rock solid. Can you find room for anymore sincerity.


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Post: # 692225Post rodgerfox »

degruch wrote:
Wouldn't matter that the Hawks have struggled against us in recent years, and that we flogged 'em during the season quite convincingly with all stars on deck, plus they had a week off in the final.
Of course it doesn't matter.

Collingwood beat Geelong too. Doesn't mean squat.


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Post: # 692226Post rodgerfox »

PJ wrote:
I agree with your logic that the ladder is a great benchmark to assess how well team's performed.
Actually it is if you remove all the subjective arguments for and against.
Oh dear.

And can you give me one good reason why you would remove subjective arguments??

Do you think the footy deptartments at each club sit down and ignore subjective arguments when assessing where they're at? Or do you think they just settle on ladder position??


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Post: # 692227Post WayneJudson42 »

rodgerfox wrote:I'm still amazed that people are still moronic enough to look at ladder positions in order to assess whether a team improved or not - or will improve the following year.
Another example of a stupid and hostile post. :lol:


The lid is off after Round 2! Enjoy the journey, coz you just don't know where we'll end up. Live for today and seize the moment.
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Post: # 692228Post degruch »

rodgerfox wrote:
degruch wrote:
Wouldn't matter that the Hawks have struggled against us in recent years, and that we flogged 'em during the season quite convincingly with all stars on deck, plus they had a week off in the final.
Of course it doesn't matter.

Collingwood beat Geelong too. Doesn't mean squat.
Neither do any of your posts in this thread.

You cut off the most important part of my comment, the bit that you should read a bit more carefully.


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Post: # 692230Post PJ »

They do a number of things but in the cold light of day all you are left with is in black and white.

Hawthorn - premiers
St.Kilda - 4th

Next you'll be telling me the earth is flat.


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rodgerfox
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Post: # 692231Post rodgerfox »

PJ wrote:They do a number of things but in the cold light of day all you are left with is in black and white.

Hawthorn - premiers
St.Kilda - 4th

Next you'll be telling me the earth is flat.
I haven't argued where we finished on the ladder. I'm arguing the relevance.


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Post: # 692233Post rodgerfox »

WayneJudson42 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:I'm still amazed that people are still moronic enough to look at ladder positions in order to assess whether a team improved or not - or will improve the following year.
Another example of a stupid and hostile post. :lol:
You don't have to read it. And even further, you're under no obligation to respond if you don't like it.


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Post: # 692238Post PJ »

So you're arguing that fact has no relevance..


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Post: # 692241Post PJ »

You actually haven't proposed an argument or offered any debatable opinions.


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Post: # 692242Post rodgerfox »

PJ wrote:So you're arguing that fact has no relevance..
The only relevance is obviously during the year.

Once that year has passed, it holds no relevance bar your pick in the draft.


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Post: # 692256Post saint66au »

So..cmon on then Rodg...you are so quick to. mock , demand proof or shout down people who, god forbid, might hold a shred of positivity still 2 1/2 months from Round 1....lets hear your theories on why we will finsh "around 13th" eh??

You must be expecting a lot of our players to drop off form..name names...lets hear your theories, or are we too moronic to be favoured with them??


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Post: # 692261Post BAM! (shhhh) »

rodgerfox wrote: A fair post.

This is the part that worries me though....

"Where to look for improvement? Plenty of places - Armitage, Geary, McQualter, Raph and Xav Clarke, Robert Eddy, Matt Maguire, James Gwilt, Leigh Montagna, Jason Gram, Stephen Baker, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Adam Schneider, Jack Steven, Sam Gilbert, Justin Koschitzke, leigh Fisher. Even Hayes and Goddard have shown better form than was sighted during the Saints run home."

Every club in the comp expects improvement from their middle tier. I don't know why people think we're alone here.
We're anything but alone in expecting/hoping for tier to improve. However those behind us right now need more improvement than we do.

Given the number of names vs the quality, it might be unrealistic to expect our improvement to sufficiently outstrip Geelong and Hawthorn's enough to take over the top, it's hard to make a compelling case that we'll get passed by 9 teams (and finish 13th) - A lot of teams need a lot more than St Kilda.

Play like 2nd half of 2k8, we'll go top 4.
Play like the 1st half, out of finals.
On the balance, call it a 5-7 finish (someone will come from outside the 8 to go top 4, one of the aging teams - and we're just not old enough to take this prize - will plummet).

The variable other than the club that comes from outside the 8 tends to be mid-tier improvement v regression, and while our depth is concerning if injuries strike our top tier (the more middling prospects we need to come good, the less likely we are to see the result), the bredth of prospects gives us as good a basis for expecing improvement - and holding off the vultures if you like - as anyone else.


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Post: # 692266Post LennyBoy »

Chris who :roll:

Is this the same moron that is on an Adelaide's Leading Football Coverage Station with the likes of KG Cunningham, Graham Cornes, Steven Rowe, Russell Ebert, Chris Dittmar, David Wildey, and Michelangelo Rucci :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Says a lot about the demise of South Australian Football coverage, and the fact they have no respect / clue about Victorian football full stop.

Go on Saints prove this guy wrong, clearly our newest poochy. :lol:


Poochy 1 2 3 4 and 5 should be reinstated!
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Post: # 692269Post LennyBoy »

Those SA wankers don't know that anything exists beyond the outer suburbs of Adelaide, that quaint country town caught in a 1940's timewarp that is only famous for its bizarre gothic sex crimes and mass murders.
And then there are the smart ones that got out like myself. :wink:


Poochy 1 2 3 4 and 5 should be reinstated!
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Post: # 692274Post degruch »

LennyBoy wrote:
Those SA wankers don't know that anything exists beyond the outer suburbs of Adelaide, that quaint country town caught in a 1940's timewarp that is only famous for its bizarre gothic sex crimes and mass murders.
And then there are the smart ones that got out like myself. :wink:
...and that's how I got my job, on the Gothic Sex Crimes Commission.


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Post: # 692277Post LennyBoy »

degruch wrote:
LennyBoy wrote:
Those SA wankers don't know that anything exists beyond the outer suburbs of Adelaide, that quaint country town caught in a 1940's timewarp that is only famous for its bizarre gothic sex crimes and mass murders.
And then there are the smart ones that got out like myself. :wink:
...and that's how I got my job, on the Gothic Sex Crimes Commission.
Speaking of Adelaide, we play there twice in the first five rounds of 2009. It could be a defining venue for us early on this season.


Poochy 1 2 3 4 and 5 should be reinstated!
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Post: # 692278Post LennyBoy »

saint66au: *sigh* sometimes its liking having Poochy around again
It would be great to see the return of the great man / dog to our forum anytime soon. Poochy where are thou? This board is backing your return!


Poochy 1 2 3 4 and 5 should be reinstated!
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