The Seaford Thread

[Solar]

There are several facts to the equation.

FACT 1: Membership is growing
FACT 2: Sponsorship is growing
FACT 3: The Club is doing well.
FACT 4: In two years time St. Kilda Football Club will be a Heavyweight.

membership is not growing.

It has stagnated for the past 2 years.

that may be somewhat the case, however,
i am talking about the next two years and the context of the future rather than the past SP.

then it's a gutsy call because there are many reasons why none of those four reasons could come to pass....

- the economy
- our draw next year.... sundays don't get you members or sponsors
- we are not sexy

but I'm curious about what you base that future claim on pilgrim

[Pilgram]

There are several facts to the equation.

FACT 1: Membership is growing
FACT 2: Sponsorship is growing
FACT 3: The Club is doing well.
FACT 4: In two years time St. Kilda Football Club will be a Heavyweight.

membership is not growing.

It has stagnated for the past 2 years.

that may be somewhat the case, however,
i am talking about the next two years and the context of the future rather than the past SP.

then it's a gutsy call because there are many reasons why none of those four reasons could come to pass....

- the economy
- our draw next year.... sundays don't get you members or sponsors
- we are not sexy

but I'm curious about what you base that future claim on pilgrim

interesting that you should ask Solar.
i base my claim on the fact that we ARE sexy.
i base it on the fact that the saints will be in a grand final in the next two years.
i base it on the administration.
i base it on the fact that there will be 35,000+ members in 2010.
and i base it on the fact that the club has survived whilst others have not.
this club is an australian success story.
while there has only ever been one flag you just have to look across the other side of the country to fremantle and discover that there are people worse off than us. we are survivors. we will survive. not only is the st. kilda football club surviving, the st. kilda football club has moved into a new future and moved into it well.
the club is administrated profitably with the new board and no-one can criticise them. the board are doing a remarkable and inspiring thing.
this club, regardless of whether you and i are members is moving into an area of the peninsula and by so doing have assured everyone that they, we, the people of the south-east, have a football team represented in a national context that is uniquely ours.
st. kilda has a location. st. kilda is the south-east.

[Solar]

pilgrim, thankyou for response

the only fact that you can put forward is that we have survived over all these years. Not sure if that is a great basis for your original claims.

I ask again, what exactly do you have as a basis for suggesting that we will be in a grand final in the next two years? It's hard enough to make top 4, to go the next step? You tell me in 2004 that ball would break down, dal santo would be tagged out of the game and kosi would collapse on TV and I would never have believed you. I thought the sky was the limit for that team, s*** happened and we never got there. My point, it's hard enough to predict weekly results, let alone a result in the next two years.

Secondly, I wonder why you believe we are sexy? We have a whole batch of established 23-27 year olds. Great for winning flags but not exciting. The blues are exciting, the tigers with cotchen are exciting. We have to use the results to create sexiness (see geelong).

35K + members? What fact do you have that leads to this future guess? The draw is not member friendly, we have lost our greatest player and did not make a grand final. Apart from grabbing a ben cousins I struggle to see how we can drum up members this year.... I agree this would not be the case for 2010 but that would require a flag or grand final apperance (see point one over how hard that is).

I am usually a very positive person but this feels like it flies in the face of everything we know. I hope your right but it feels as baseless as those who come on here and suggest we are gold coast bound in 2 years time (the other extreme)....

[saint66au]

Agree with Solar 100%

[Pilgram]

i'll keep it going then shall i?
the administration is doing a remarkable job.
the reason why this info may fly in the face of everything you know Solar is down to the administration, not your's truly.
the administration has a vision. i share the vision of the administration.
the administration wants to see the club become part of the big four - that is the vision that they have.
we are the emerging heavyweight of the competition.
we will have 35,000+ members in 2010 and beyond that if everything goes to plan we will rival the essendons, the carltons and the collingwoods of the competition on sheer volume of membership leaving your norths and melbournes stranded.
the struggle is long.
to survive is to succeed. to prosper is to exceed expectation.
we have a core group of individuals on the list that are excellent, add one or two established ingredients to the mix and it is the recipe for a premiership.

[Solar]

i'll keep it going then shall i?
the administration is doing a remarkable job.
the reason why this info may fly in the face of everything you know Solar is down to the administration, not your's truly.
the administration has a vision. i share the vision of the administration.
the administration wants to see the club become part of the big four - that is the vision that they have.
we are the emerging heavyweight of the competition.
we will have 35,000+ members in 2010 and beyond that if everything goes to plan we will rival the essendons, the carltons and the collingwoods of the competition on sheer volume of membership leaving your norths and melbournes stranded.
the struggle is long.
to survive is to succeed. to prosper is to exceed expectation.
we have a core group of individuals on the list that are excellent, add one or two established ingredients to the mix and it is the recipe for a premiership.

ok I get the whole vision, I have written enough social/environmental policy to see that plainly. But usually what comes next is a series of aims, which I can see you have. 35k members, grand final in two years etc.

So the next part of this is constructing a series of action plans and outcomes. An example is "we want 35k fans in two years" as the aim and the action plan revolve around a membership compaign focusing on getting new members from this place.... or offering a cheaper or easer way to become a member..."

my point being, it's great to be behind this admin and vision statements are vital in any business, club or organsiation. But you need to produce a map to get from A to B.....

so far all I'm getng from you is the vison..... it's a pretty way out one as well in the climate and situation the club finds itself at. So I ask you, how are we going to go from Awesome vison to fantastic reality.....

(please I'm curious, it takes something decient to get someone to suggest what you have )

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Getting a little off topic here arent we??

[Pilgram]

i'll keep it going then shall i?
the administration is doing a remarkable job.
the reason why this info may fly in the face of everything you know Solar is down to the administration, not your's truly.
the administration has a vision. i share the vision of the administration.
the administration wants to see the club become part of the big four - that is the vision that they have.
we are the emerging heavyweight of the competition.
we will have 35,000+ members in 2010 and beyond that if everything goes to plan we will rival the essendons, the carltons and the collingwoods of the competition on sheer volume of membership leaving your norths and melbournes stranded.
the struggle is long.
to survive is to succeed. to prosper is to exceed expectation.
we have a core group of individuals on the list that are excellent, add one or two established ingredients to the mix and it is the recipe for a premiership.

ok I get the whole vision, I have written enough social/environmental policy to see that plainly. But usually what comes next is a series of aims, which I can see you have. 35k members, grand final in two years etc.

So the next part of this is constructing a series of action plans and outcomes. An example is "we want 35k fans in two years" as the aim and the action plan revolve around a membership compaign focusing on getting new members from this place.... or offering a cheaper or easer way to become a member..."

my point being, it's great to be behind this admin and vision statements are vital in any business, club or organsiation. But you need to produce a map to get from A to B.....

so far all I'm getng from you is the vison..... it's a pretty way out one as well in the climate and situation the club finds itself at. So I ask you, how are we going to go from Awesome vison to fantastic reality.....

(please I'm curious, it takes something decient to get someone to suggest what you have )

you raise some interesting questions.
an action plan is something that i'm not in control of.
ross lyon has that.
i'd imagine that it will sit in the first draw of his new desk in his new office once that office has been built for him.
the administration have a vision that is second to none in my opinion.
as far as outcomes are concerned, this is a time of rapid adjustment.

[skeptic]

i won't get drawn into the discussion but in this topic, Archie covered some of the questions asked on this topic

personally, I'm happy with the decision... anyway, hope it helps

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... ht=#667064

[Pilgram]

thanks skeptic,
your thread is awesome.
i think that everyone loves the ask archie section on saintscentral.com
.. especially barks4 and Grumpy

[WayneJudson42]

just a couple of thoughts

there were only ever two options in the past 6-12 months, that was casey or frankston. We went for frankston because they offered a freehold piece of land. This fell through and they insteed offered to put more money up front into the construction of the seaford training facility. We have had this discussion re: the advantages of a land assest (worth only what it cazn be sold for or use as an asset for lending purposes), so it was still a good income as long as the club keeps the costs down.

On the pokies issue, AOK I get your view but it ignores the situation at the time. When the linton street plan was developed the loan was going to rely on a certain amount of pokie income. Once the council decided that a certain amount of pokies would have to go (despite the fact that extra pokie machines went up the road to the sandbelt... hmmm politics..). Perhaps if the council and club were on better terms they might have developed another income stream which would create a better outcome. Yet remember such situations and a council member bringing the press to a protest in the moorabin reserve over the loss of important parkland (it's a bloody car park!!).

There are positives and negatives for the seaford decision. Yes its further away from the city but I'm not sure why that effects the players? jump on one of the freeways and your there in no time. It is being developed in what is seen as a area of population increase. The facilities sound like they will be top notch and the amount of our outlay is in our hands.

The hysteria on here is a little over the top.

This SHOULD be the final word on the matter.

Who is this guy to say what the final word should be?

1500 posts - I've never read - where did he come from?

Geez, some ppl!!!

We need Pokies like a hole in the head, they are bad vibes and bad karma.

This will NOT be the last word on the matter... that I promise you.

My comment was in context of agreeing with the post, as it is logical and well spoken IMO.

Get it? It was a rhetorical comment. Feel free to carry on your war of discontent, by all means.

[skeptic]

alright i'll bite

to the guys that really don't like the idea of moving to Belvedere Park, can I ask why?

I'm not a huge fan of the location but here's what I see

-We're going to get an $11m training facility for SFA. One that is supposedly as good as any going round.

-It appears that this is actaully happening. The ETA is mid 2010. Now lets say that it's pushed back by whatever delays for 2years, and opens in 2012, that's a grand total of 4 1/2 years... we waited on Moorabbin for 5yrs and got nothing there.
2 boards couldn't work with the council. It was an unworkable situation.

-Ideas of developing in Sandy, Elsternwick, Albert park, Monash and St.Kilda are all pipe dreams. AF says that they explored all these options and for 1 reason or another (AFL funding, land development, state funding, council probs) they don't hold up to the current deal. Infact I doubt they even hold up to the CF offer.
I tend to belive AF when he says they explored all of these options becasue why would u go to seaford if we could get just as good a deal at Elsternwick??? Doesn't make sense.

-We've got a hold on the SE suburbs market. We're the only club in that entire region and we have strong representation and hsitorical links right through... St.Kilda, Moorabbin, Sandy, Seaford and Frankston too.

What's wrong with the idea other than it doesn't sound as nice being in St. Kilda and being further away from the city?

[yipper]

alright i'll bite

to the guys that really don't like the idea of moving to Belvedere Park, can I ask why?

I'm not a huge fan of the location but here's what I see

-We're going to get an $11m training facility for SFA. One that is supposedly as good as any going round.

-It appears that this is actaully happening. The ETA is mid 2010. Now lets say that it's pushed back by whatever delays for 2years, and opens in 2012, that's a grand total of 4 1/2 years... we waited on Moorabbin for 5yrs and got nothing there.
2 boards couldn't work with the council. It was an unworkable situation.

-Ideas of developing in Sandy, Elsternwick, Albert park, Monash and St.Kilda are all pipe dreams. AF says that they explored all these options and for 1 reason or another (AFL funding, land development, state funding, council probs) they don't hold up to the current deal. Infact I doubt they even hold up to the CF offer.
I tend to belive AF when he says they explored all of these options becasue why would u go to seaford if we could get just as good a deal at Elsternwick??? Doesn't make sense.

-We've got a hold on the SE suburbs market. We're the only club in that entire region and we have strong representation and hsitorical links right through... St.Kilda, Moorabbin, Sandy, Seaford and Frankston too.

What's wrong with the idea other than it doesn't sound as nice being in St. Kilda and being further away from the city?

Agree totally. Ideally, we would have had the romantic return to the Junction as 1st choice. Or a half decent council at Kingston and we would have stayed at Moorabbin. So instead, we go to one of Melbourne's growing regional areas where we shore up support as the only club in the Southern region of Melbourne and get the state of the art facilities for practically nothing . The Saints will become huge in the next few years.

[The Craw]

Arsenal's training ground can be found at their Traning Centre located in Hertfordshire, a 45 minute drive from the Emirate Stadium. The first team squad along with young professionals and Academy scholars all train on these fields. The fields in their Training Centre is considered one of the best in the country.

Gee the absolute arrogance of the administration to have a training facilitiy so far from their main ground.... just a 2 bit operation they are...

[barks4eva]

2 boards couldn't work with the council. It was an unworkable situation.

-

Don't you mean ONE CEO!

I tend to belive AF when he says they explored all of these options becasue why would u go to seaford if we could get just as good a deal at Elsternwick??? Doesn't make sense.

Then you'd tend to believe anything IMO, the board had an agenda for Frankston a long time ago, I have no doubt other options closer to St.kilda were never entertained or canvassed by the current board and Gdanksi!

Butterss was given the boot before he could either keep the club at Moorabbin or locate it closer to St.Kilda!

Perhaps I'll ask Archie for any official documents proving that the board did look at this as an option, any government documents rejecting this proposal and anything else that affirms this, other than the spin that come's from Archie's mouth!

I also have no doubt that the St.Kilda board cannot produce any evidence whatsoever to back up any claim that they'd already looked into it!

They wanted Frankston pure and simple, because they believe, incorrectly IMO, that this is a strategic move!

Bottomline they've got the blinker's on and this was the option they preferred, and IMO the option they preferred ahead of staying at Moorabbin, hence why negotiations went awol with the Kingston council to begin with!

Can anyone tell me exactly how many pokie machines the club will be having in Seaford?

[Pilgram]

barks4,
you seem to have a big issue with AF and in turn we all have an issue with you.
let me tell you something man-to-man:
small ppl talk about ppl.
big ppl talk about 'things'.
get over it and move on you turnip.

[barks4eva]

barks4,
you seem to have a big issue with AF and in turn we all have an issue with you.
let me tell you something man-to-man:
small ppl talk about ppl.
big ppl talk about 'things'.
get over it and move on you turnip.

My issue is with moving the ST KILDA FOOTBALL CLUB to Seaford and anyone responsible for this nonsense!

[Pilgram]

barks4,
you seem to have a big issue with AF and in turn we all have an issue with you.
let me tell you something man-to-man:
small ppl talk about ppl.
big ppl talk about 'things'.
get over it and move on you turnip.

My issue is with moving the ST KILDA FOOTBALL CLUB to Seaford and anyone responsible for this nonsense!

you just couldn't help yourself.

[stinger]

barks4,
you seem to have a big issue with AF and in turn we all have an issue with you.
let me tell you something man-to-man:
small ppl talk about ppl.
big ppl talk about 'things'.
get over it and move on you turnip.

well said....

[Pilgram]

barks4,
you seem to have a big issue with AF and in turn we all have an issue with you.
let me tell you something man-to-man:
small ppl talk about ppl.
big ppl talk about 'things'.
get over it and move on you turnip.

well said....

are we talking about the future?

[St Fidelius]

Thanks Pilgram...

You have now put me off turnips for life

[Pilgram]

Thanks Pilgram...

You have now put me off turnips for life

seriously?

[St Fidelius]

Thanks Pilgram...

You have now put me off turnips for life

seriously?

nah...

never a big fan of turnips, but now I farking hate them.

I've always found that turnips repeat on me...

and when you think about it, a turnip is a very fitting name for that poster IMO

[aussierules0k]

[Pilgram]

40,000 members is realistic beyond 2010