Lets get serious about these 3 players

[steph]

Eddy, Mini and Fiora

Unfortunately, we can't win preliminary finals, with these 3 in the team

Regarding Mini and Eddy, the kids bust their guts, they run hard, they follow instructions and give it their all. But at the end of the day, they just aren't up to it.

The hawks and the cats don't have players in their side as bad as these guys.

Fiora: couldn't believe he was playing a prelim final, particularly after his performance for the scorps last week. We were actually joking about it before the game and then our nightmare came true. The hawks totally bullied us, and are far more aggressive at both the player and the ball. Fiora doesnt have an aggressive bone in his body.

Decisions have to be made. Fiora and Mini MUST be delisted. Eddy will probably be persisted with cos he's first yr. However, he's definitely not going to make it.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction, they have been triers and battlers all yr. I'm fed up with triers. we need winners.

[Eastern]

Spud Frawley on MMM suggested that Fiora's days at StKilda might be numbered.

Some news on de-listings will come out over the next 2 weeks. The rest will not come out until straight ater the trade period !!

[StNoodles]

fiora should go, agreed, but eddy is young, gaining experience and deserves another season or two to prove himself. mini is a huge disappointment as a first-rounder, but may be lucky enough to be kept as a depth player.

and i'm not having a go at mini here, i reckon he's a tryer, more the recruitment staff who were involved in his selection

[doristhesaint]

Could not believe fiora was in again how long has he been at the club and done nothing.

But that is a big problem with us in that we just dont have enough mogeral in the side and not the skills to play with out it.

[midas_touch]

I agree on Fiora being moved on. Whilst he has shown flashes of brilliance over the years at the Saints, he goes missing way too much in games to have a significant impact.

With Mini, he has improved since becoming back in favour by the match committee and has been a reliable tagger in Bakes' absence. I'd keep him as a depth player, since he is still pretty young.

And I think you are being too harsh on Robert Eddy, who is essentially a first year player, and so still has a couple of years to develop. He has been solid in his ten or so games at the club this year, and I expect him to play 15+ games next year as a midfield rotation.

[skeptic]

lol

Eddy and Mini are just kids and have been promising all year...
stupid to write them off

Fiora is a different kettle of fish... I think RL has given him quite a few chances this year because
a) he's a senior player
b) he works his butt off
I'm hoping that it's nice try not good enough for him (nothing personal fizz)

There's quite a few to point the finger at but u donn't start with the youngest of the young...
I'll bet ur one of the ones that wanted to delist Raph, trade Goddard to Carlton, thought Lenny was too slow etc

[bethb7]

Why did Fiora play last night anyway? Why was he brought in for a prelim final with hardly any senior footy under his belt? What happened to Birss coming in he has got a seriously rough deal from Lyon this season.

[steph]

lol

Eddy and Mini are just kids and have been promising all year...
stupid to write them off

Fiora is a different kettle of fish... I think RL has given him quite a few chances this year because
a) he's a senior player
b) he works his butt off
I'm hoping that it's nice try not good enough for him (nothing personal fizz)

There's quite a few to point the finger at but u donn't start with the youngest of the young...
I'll bet ur one of the ones that wanted to delist Raph, trade Goddard to Carlton, thought Lenny was too slow etc

I'll accept I'm being harsh on Eddy, I understand he is only a kid, but just hasnt shown anything to get me excited about his future. He runs hard, but has shocking skills, his attack on the ball in that marking contest last night when Hodge (i think) spoiled him, was simply shocking.

We need players with some serious aggression and i just dont see that in him. I know nerves play a part, but in the first quarter, the ball was delivered perfectly to him, uncontested situation and he dropped the mark 30m out. Maybe give him a year, but i havent got high hopes.

As for Mini, he has been given more than enough time. We cant continue wasting our time with mediocre players who just cannot find the ball. the day of the tagger is over, taggers must gather possessions themselves and hurt sides on the rebound. 3 possessions last night was simply shocking. He's been delisted once, this time it has to be for good. Hard call but has to be made

As for your comments suggesting i one of those calling for BJ to carlton and Lenny too slow, thats just ill informed and insulting and i wont bother justifying myself.

[skeptic]

As for your comments suggesting i one of those calling for BJ to carlton and Lenny too slow, thats just ill informed and insulting and i wont bother justifying myself.

lol, missed the point

I meant, ppl have a tendency to expect too much from kids and write them off quickly

BJ, Hudghton and Hayes (as the older forumites would remember at least with Maxy) were very very maligned early in the careers. U wouldn't like to trade any of them now.
I'm suggesting that ur doing that to the next generation as the previous did then.

I have no idea if u were or not... history would suggest...

[bobmurray]

I think Mini has been given a fair crack at it.Eddie's skills are poor for a player that was rookied and then promoted,maybe the coaching staff think they can develop these players to an acceptable standard....

I'm not sure how long is considered reasonable for that process to run it's course....

How do so many kids get into the system with such poor skills,what do the recruiters look for when they pick them out of the pack,skill doesn't seem to be a priority...

[st.byron]

lol


I'll accept I'm being harsh on Eddy, I understand he is only a kid, but just hasnt shown anything to get me excited about his future. He runs hard, but has shocking skills, his attack on the ball in that marking contest last night when Hodge (i think) spoiled him, was simply shocking.

We need players with some serious aggression and i just dont see that in him. I know nerves play a part, but in the first quarter, the ball was delivered perfectly to him, uncontested situation and he dropped the mark 30m out. Maybe give him a year, but i havent got high hopes.

As for Mini, he has been given more than enough time. We cant continue wasting our time with mediocre players who just cannot find the ball. the day of the tagger is over, taggers must gather possessions themselves and hurt sides on the rebound. 3 possessions last night was simply shocking. He's been delisted once, this time it has to be for good. Hard call but has to be made

think you're being harsh on Eddy. He's played 12 games FFS. Give him a chance.
Mini has done enough over the last half of the season to deserve his spot. Had a shocker last night but he wasn't alone.

Fiora = waste of a spot on the list. Time to go.

[Otiman]

Delist, place rookie list. Should do the trick as far as contracts go. Even if it frees up a rookie salary amount of room on the salarcy cap.

[steph]

As for your comments suggesting i one of those calling for BJ to carlton and Lenny too slow, thats just ill informed and insulting and i wont bother justifying myself.

lol, missed the point

I meant, ppl have a tendency to expect too much from kids and write them off quickly

BJ, Hudghton and Hayes (as the older forumites would remember at least with Maxy) were very very maligned early in the careers. U wouldn't like to trade any of them now.
I'm suggesting that ur doing that to the next generation as the previous did then.

I have no idea if u were or not... history would suggest...

I was too young when Max first started so can't recall.

BJ i'd seen play in high school and knew we were on a massive winner with him. Lenny I've never had doubts over. However, we are getting off the topic.

My issue is that Eddy hasn't shown a lot that we can build on. He has poor skills, doesn't have exquisite pace, and is very weak overhead. Whilst of course he will improve, and get some size, I just dont know by how much he can improve. We can't continue to stack our team with good average workhorse type players. I'd love to be proven wrong, and am sure he will be retained, but just don't see a lot of upside.

[ausfatcat]

People have bad memories and or selective memories


Maxy debut year = 1997
Maxy B&F finish for 1997 = top 10 (if my memory serves)


People just remember a bad Grandfinal performance

[The_Dud]

i'd keep Eddy, but get rid of the other two

i don't think Fiora or Mini are gonna get any better, and they're not oo flash at the moment

[Bernard Shakey]

Fiora is contracted to the end of 2009.

Mini was delisted and redrafted on the Rookie List this year for the same reason, he was contracted till the end of 2008.

Can't do that with Fiora, he's too old. He will not be delisted because we can't afford it and he won't be traded because nobody would want him. He will stay.

Mini will stay, because he is doing what Ross wants him to do.

Eddy has done alright and will not be delisted.

[Little Dozer]

It's a disgrace that Fiora is still at the club. Absolutely astonishing....

[mad saint guy]

As for Mini, he has been given more than enough time. We cant continue wasting our time with mediocre players

I think that has been our main downfall in the past couple of years.

Too much time invested in the likes of Rix, C. Gardiner, Ferguson, McQualter etc who just don't have the tools to ever be effective players in a top team. Then we go and delist Brooks, Watts and Sweeney without ever giving them a chance despite plenty of talent and dominant performances in the VFL.

I know many will disagree but I also think we can put Eddy, Jones and Attard into the group of players who aren't up to it. None of them have the skill to execute an effective, attacking game plan. Brad Howard seems like another who will fall into this category.

If we want to be a serious contender we will have to bite the bullet, cut the players who aren't up to it, trade hard for any gun midfielders or forwards available and then try to recruit the best kids possible. In 3-4 years time we could have a decent side capable of matching it with the best and we could give Roo, Kosi, Ball, Fisher etc a chance at a flag.

With all that said, we'll probabaly end up delisting Ferguson and Leigh Fisher, with Harvey, Gehrig and Gards retiring. That leaves spots for McQualter and Eddy to be elevated and 3 draft picks to be used.

[saintsRrising]

Eddy is having his first year...and showed improvement. Importantly he seems to know where to run. However I think nerves go the best of him in the finals as he lost his soft hands.

He is definately worth giving more games to see if he can keep improving.




Mini....I think has already reached his level. Like Charlie Gardiner he is better than VFL...but is not good enough if you want to bea GF Team.

You need some "depth players" on your list, but the saints currently have too many.

Fiora delivered the goods (well at least at an ok level) in 2007, but in 2008 he reverted to his previous years form. He has had his chances.... his contract may see him kept as one of the depth players.

[Statsman]

It's all a symptom of the fact that our list doesn't have enough depth. We need about 25 legit AFL quality players on our list so we can cater for a few injuries. Unfortunately we've only got about 16 in that categories which means guys like Eddy, McQualter, Jones and Gwilt are getting regular games instead of being depth players that only play when we have injuries to cover. These guys should be playing the bulk of their football at VFL level, developing their game and hopefully improving to AFL level down the track. However they're able to get regular AFL games because we don't have anybody better standing in front of them and keeping them out of the senior team.

We haven't drafted successfully the last few years and as a result we don't have enough "quality" players coming up through the ranks. Instead, our depth is coming from late draft picks, rookie listed hopefuls, and mature age triers. We need to make sure our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks bring quality, 100 game players into our club.

We've got Armitage and McEvoy to look forward to (fingers crossed) and that's about it.

[mad saint guy]

It's all a symptom of the fact that our list doesn't have enough depth. We need about 25 legit AFL quality players on our list so we can cater for a few injuries. Unfortunately we've only got about 16 in that categories which means guys like Eddy, McQualter, Jones and Gwilt are getting regular games instead of being depth players that only play when we have injuries to cover. These guys should be playing the bulk of their football at VFL level, developing their game and hopefully improving to AFL level down the track. However they're able to get regular AFL games because we don't have anybody better standing in front of them and keeping them out of the senior team.

The issue is that too many of those players are so limited that they aren't going to improve to be near AFL standard. I agree that a club should aim to have 25 AFL proven players on the list and the rest should be kids who are potential best 22 material. We persist with too many players who aren't up to AFL footy but aren't going to improve.

We have had just two rising star nominees in the past 4 years. Look at all the kids who have stepped up this year. There are so many young players who are able to take the step up into AFL footy and do well these days...but we either can't recruit them or just prefer to stick with known quantities.

[Otiman]

Eddy 13 matches, 3 finals - Will be a player. Is our best second year player. Once he develops some body strength and confidence, he will start to win those contested balls, and hopefully learn to take some contested marks. Good fitness base to build on.

Mini 35 matches, 6 finals - From the depths of delistment, he has come back and cemented a spot in the 22 as an inside mid/tagger. Bakes and Attard coming back into the side may push him out. Seems to be ahead of Birss in the coaches eyes. Not sure about Mini, could go either way.

People are forgetting a little thing called development. There are very few players who can kick it into career best form in the first two years. It takes time, especially for lower draft picks who are working through professional development programs to bring them up to AFL level.

As for Fiora, he is well past his best. He has played 140 career games, and has been in decline for over a year now. Delist, Trade, Pay out his contract, do whatever needs to be done.

What worries me in general, with the way Ross is recruiting and developing players, is that he sees our weaknesses (speed through the midfield and whatever else he said through out the year), and to his credit, he has addressed these issues. However, it has opened up new flaws due to the lack of ability of these players. Fiora has been picked many times in games where Lyon believed leg speed would win the game, and has failed. Clint Jones is another who is addressing a weakness but exposing a new weakness.

We are going to go around in circles with this. Next year we will be focusing on leading targets and creating space, but our skills will likely go down a notch again.

[S.A Saint]

the way i see things with ross lyon (not bagging him or anything think he has done a good job since coming over) is that he loves players that try their guts out. this is not bad thing, however we seems to be having a fair few of these players that try and get selected weekly but their disposal and footy smarts are just not up to afl level.

we need to seriously recruit player that can kick a ball properly or work 24/7 during the off season so that every player can hit up a target at least 20 meters (see banger) out with no hesitation. our skill levels are one of the worst imho in the afl.

with regards to eddy mini and fiora....
i would keep eddy and delist both mini and fiora. mini is just to one dimensional and we have plenty of people that can just tag and be more affective (baker, birss, dempster, jones). i think we should delist fiora and pay him out as i dont think he would be on high wages anyway round 100 grand mayb.

one other thing that i dont understand is birss. i mean when ever he has played this season he has performed better than half the side and still can not get a game with us. his last game he shut down van berlo who was on fire racking up over 30 disposals and just get him to 12 i think. i believe he is a better version on mini. however if baker can get back the he would slot in front of both.

[vacuous space]

What worries me in general, with the way Ross is recruiting and developing players, is that he sees our weaknesses (speed through the midfield and whatever else he said through out the year), and to his credit, he has addressed these issues.

I have no problem with the way we've recruited players. Draft players to fill long term holes and trade for guys who can help you in the short term. I disagree with anyone who thinks McEvoy would have been better served being thrown to the wolves the way Kreuzer was. I'd also disagree with anyone that thinks Armitage would have had a better game if he were handed 10 more games experience he hadn't earned. I don't think there's any benefit to blooding youngsters before they're ready.

We need to get better at identifying junior talent, but that's not going to happen overnight. Remember, this club's recruiting department was run out of the back of JB's car on the cheap. It's going to take time to bridge the gap between our recruiting and the heavyweights of the league.

[groupie1]

i agree with lose Fiora - Maybe Melbourne will take him for, say, a s*** Melbourne player

Mini - tough. I don't think he's up to it. But he's done a role. Again, re Birss - what's up with that? very unlucky. Mini possibly stays for depth.

Eddy - young guy, will learn the toughness to stay on his feet - I think they see a future B Goddard. Definitely keep.