Ross Lyon...

[Dan Warna]

our list was good enough to maul WCE, adelaide, hawks and a couple of other team.

our reserves full of saints are smashing the opposition.

given the restrictions of salary cap and injuries we have a very good list.

[evertonfc]

How depressing is it to be all excited over the prospect of scraping into the eight...

Then again, our starting 22 features names such as Blake, Attard and Jones - how can you possibly even think of the finals? Fiora, L Fisher and Rix are marginally better, but the sad fact is that none of them would crack it for a gig in a premiership team.

Waiting for our 'project' players to come through - most of the above are exactly that, added to Gwilt, Ferguson, Watts, Brooks and Sweeney - has definitely hurt us.

You can only have so many projects happening at one time; you need action. Hence, not having a crack here, but Robert Harvey is still in our midfield, and a semi-motivated (seemingly) Fraser Gehrig is sitting in the square....because nobody has stepped up to replace them.

[Dan Warna]

actually have a look at the bottom 5 at wce and sydney and theya re pretty ordinary too.

i think some 10 players got less than 11 possessions last GF.

not everyone in your team has to be a star.

WCE showed how ordinary they are with a handful of injuries.

melbourne beat footscray, hawks turned their form around and mauled Brisbane...

we have a good list, we dont have form.

[evertonfc]

I get what you mean Dan, but think about this:

Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Braun, Embley, Wirrapunda, Morton, Hurn, R Jones, B Jones, Stenglien, Fletcher, Selwood, Le Cras.

West Coast have that depth to play with in the midfield. What have we got? Our first four or five, plus Jones, Birss, Thompson and McQualter?

Come on mate - yes, we're not too bad, but we're not top four, and that's where you want to be, generally speaking, if you want to win flags.

It's not about having a list full of stars, that's the mistake people make: it's about having a great first 22, and then backing that up with real depth into the early 40s.

Our depth stops in the early 30s - that's an issue over 22 rounds + finals.

[Dan Warna]

who have WCE got as a forward line?

besides glass how much quality have they got in the back line?

we have spread our talent through a few quality defenders, a few quality midfielders and a few quality forwards.

WCE have spent their resources in the midfield.

think of it like the one of the supercoach games. their salary cap 800k cousines, 800k judd, 600k kerr, 500k chick, then embley and co.

we have spent our money on goose (recovering from injury) max, Fisher, goddard in our backline, dalsanto, ball, hayes, harvey, montagna in the midfield, rieowldt, FG, in the forward line and kosi in the ruck.

their midfield is the best, but take away 3 of judd, kerr, cousins and embley and they really get exposed badly.

[evertonfc]

who have WCE got as a forward line?

besides glass how much quality have they got in the back line?

we have spread our talent through a few quality defenders, a few quality midfielders and a few quality forwards.

WCE have spent their resources in the midfield.

think of it like the one of the supercoach games. their salary cap 800k cousines, 800k judd, 600k kerr, 500k chick, then embley and co.

we have spent our money on goose (recovering from injury) max, Fisher, goddard in our backline, dalsanto, ball, hayes, harvey, montagna in the midfield, rieowldt, FG, in the forward line and kosi in the ruck.

their midfield is the best, but take away 3 of judd, kerr, cousins and embley and they really get exposed badly.

Dan, they've made the past 2 GFs and will probably win it this year.

They've realised it's not 1991 anymore and that as important as it is to have good KPPs, having gun midfielders is the key to success in modern football.

[JeffDunne]

Ross is not the problem, he's a symptom.

In 2000 we thought we had to copy the Crows to be successful.

That didn't work so we thought copying the Lions was the way to go.

When that didn't work and the world went the way of the flood, we thought we could buck that trend with a style that was essentially of our making.

That also didn't produce the results we were after so we again changed course and this time tried to copy the Swans.

Unfortunately for us teams have worked out how to counter this style too.

I suspect if the same people are steering the ship we'll find ourselves in a not unfamiliar position this time next season - trying to find a style to copy based on what happened in 2007/8.

We follow as a club, we don't lead. It's why we remain unsuccessful.

[satchmo]

Face facts - the sooks come out screaming to sack the coach like a pack of screaming hyenas after we lose....they'll crawl back under their rocks next win.....just drooling over the next loss......and away we go again...weak as.

And then we sack the coach, and the same sooks defend the new coach no matter how ordinary he is....even weaker !

[rodgerfox]

Dan, they've made the past 2 GFs and will probably win it this year.

They've realised it's not 1991 anymore and that as important as it is to have good KPPs, having gun midfielders is the key to success in modern football.

This is the big problem with footy - and particularly with us.

Sydney's style\game plan\coaching\list\whatever is not the key to winning modern footy games.

They again, for the 3rd year in a row, have no injuries. The same as it has been over the past 3 seasons - it directly coincides with their 'charge' towards September.

The big problem is that short sighted people (like our board) see their success and try to emulate it, without taking into account that they can't get within 5 goals of anyone when they have more than 2 good players missing.

[iwantmeseats]

Everything I would say has been said. All I can add in my opinion is RL = DUD! I dont have to wait till next year to see that!

and


CAN SONEONE TELL ME WHY X CLARKE WAS LEFT ON THE GROUND FOR SO LONG LAST NIGHT ?

We are in alot of trouble with RL. And its just my opinion, so remember that

[Solar]

The reason why the swans developed their game plan was that their weakness was overall ability in most positions. Yes they had good skilled players like williams, o'loughan, davis but most of their team consisted of shorter slower less skilled players. So they developed a total play for the team mentality based around numbers in the contest and winning the stoppages. Flooding back in numbers helped their shorter slower defenders hold off power forwards.

This took over 2 years to really take effect, which along with a great uninjured list meant that they learnt to trust each other and work as a complete team.

We are completely different. We have a collection of players which can WIN one on one contests more often. Our second shelf players are like everyone elses, but the game plan wasn't based around these players.

OS the question that needs to ask, wil this game plan RL is developing the right one for our list. Do we need to totally re-construct this list or change this game plan to suit our list? My opinion, adjust this game plan because the likes of BJ, Roo, kosi, hayes etc. are once in a generation set of talent.

[carn_sainter]

Face facts - the sooks come out screaming to sack the coach like a pack of screaming hyenas after we lose....they'll crawl back under their rocks next win.....just drooling over the next loss......and away we go again...weak as.

you are the biggest running joke i've seen on this site...

do you not realise this is exactly what you did for 3 years?

laughable...

no credibility


as for ross, he's alright...sure can't be blamed for the butchered disposal that has hurt us most

good coach by virtue of not being a bad coach...as long as he has the players united and believeing, most of his job is done...

now, if they can just hit a few targets...

[borderbarry]

IU tend to agree with Solar. It is foolish to have a defensive game plan with our list.

[Solar]

IU tend to agree with Solar. It is foolish to have a defensive game plan with our list.

I am all for developing players with a defensive side to their game, in fact joey has really improved in this area this year. But we remind me of the gunners of the 90's, kick a goal then shut up shop for the rest of the match....

[Spinner]

actually have a look at the bottom 5 at wce and sydney and theya re pretty ordinary too.

i think some 10 players got less than 11 possessions last GF.

not everyone in your team has to be a star.

WCE showed how ordinary they are with a handful of injuries.

melbourne beat footscray, hawks turned their form around and mauled Brisbane...

we have a good list, we dont have form.

Dan....I think the difference between teams like WCE and Sydney is that it is not always the same 6 players having no impact. It isnt always the same players at WCE not getting over ten possessions, if some play a bad game others will always step up.

With St Kilda, if our 5 midfield guns arnt firing (which they cant always do) there is no stepping up from the other blokes. Hence why we can sometimes play so well and then so poorly.

The fringe players make all the difference. Every team has guns. Yet they cant alway fire week in week out. That just isnt football.

[Dan Warna]

interestingly we generally had a to 5 defence playing the old strategy.

now I understand we have had a lot of injuries this year...which is a fair call for why our defence struggled.

I would also say that we have had similar injuries in previous years and OMG we shouldn't be satisfied with 8th is being shoved at supporters all the time.

either injuries are an excuse or they are not an excuse, you can't be selective.

what is missing from our previous defence to our current defence?

max, v2, maguire, penny, aussie jones were the cornerstone of defence.

Penny finished up with us a few years ago, and so did aussie, even 06 our defence across the season was solid, with fisher and gram slipping in.

goddard also is a big miss after a very good 06 and early 07.

this year our defence has been mauled with injuries, at the moment we have available v2 (dominating in the reserves,) fisher (who didmarvellously as a KPP and seems that RL wants to reinvent as tadhg Kennelly, max and Goose returning from injury. etc and the fishers.

gram is being used as a negative tagger after showing us what an awesomely offensive player he can be during 06 and early 07....

it kinda seems like matthew young being replaced by tony delany.

Sam Fisher is an outstanding player, so is Gram, but they seem to have their roles reversed these past few weeks, negating the strengths of both players to the detriment of the team.

Gram has grabbed his legs a few times, is he playing injured? he seems to be flashing his pace a lot less.

I just dont get why our defence now has to play this rubbish when we should have a tonne of talent available.

instead of playing as a team we seem to be playing as a collection of individuals and if that is the case, the coach has to address the problem.

[Dan Warna]

lol 2 or 3 seasons ago folks were QQing about us having too many midfielders and not enough KPPs >< now we have what should be a solid spine with guys like max, fisher and goose holding down FB adn CHB, goddard, kosi, FG and Reiwoldt who can play CHF/FF with watts looking like a FF in the making, and folks are crying we dont have enough midfielders ><

our midfield is strong even in the absence of harvey and thomo.

thomo is clearly too good for VFL and yet when he is in the seniors he is played off the bench or in a tagging role while preference is given to birss and jones who generally across the season look to require more development.

[barks4eva]

Hopefully someone is the phone to GT offering him his job back

You mean the machiavelian maestro, the svengali snakeoil salesman who F***** our list with amatuerish and incompetent management, the one who set the club back three years with poor recruiting, drafting, no rookies etc..., the same guy who hired and fired fitness staff on an annual basis which probably contributed tiowards our terrible run with injuries for FIVE YEARS

Is this the ***** you're talking about?

Poor recruiting is the number ONE reason why things are not going gangbusters right now. and you want the buffoon responsible for this mess reinstated

Edited to remove abuse..mod

[JeffDunne]

Prick?

Was that necessary?

I understand your difference of opinion on GT's coaching and the decisions he made, but I cannot comprehend the bitterness you display towards someone who achieved a lot for this club. You even admit to supporting the job he was doing up until 2 years ago.

Why the hate? I don't get it.

[St Fidelius]

[quote="Please use correct nicknames]

You mean the machiavelian maestro, the svengali snakeoil salesman who F***** our list with amatuerish and incompetent management, the one who set the club back three years with poor recruiting, drafting, no rookies etc..., the same guy who hired and fired fitness staff on an annual basis which probably contributed tiowards our terrible run with injuries for FIVE YEARS

Is this the ***** you're talking about?

Poor recruiting is the number ONE reason why things are not going gangbusters right now. and you want the buffoon responsible for this mess reinstated

Edited to remove abuse..mod[/quote]

Give us all a break FFS and get some help

You have repeated this same dribble for over 12 months, how about you have a cup of shut the F*** up

And get some help

[Teflon]

Face facts - the sooks come out screaming to sack the coach like a pack of screaming hyenas after we lose....they'll crawl back under their rocks next win.....just drooling over the next loss......and away we go again...weak as.

And then we sack the coach, and the same sooks defend the new coach no matter how ordinary he is....even weaker !

Hows it weak to defend a rookie coach in his first year trying to isntil a new game plan on a side that isnt what it was 2 yrs ago?

Weak is going with the flock cause they might just laugh at a lame gag or it could score you internet heroism.......but carry on....

[Teflon]

Face facts - the sooks come out screaming to sack the coach like a pack of screaming hyenas after we lose....they'll crawl back under their rocks next win.....just drooling over the next loss......and away we go again...weak as.

you are the biggest running joke i've seen on this site...

do you not realise this is exactly what you did for 3 years?

laughable...

no credibility


as for ross, he's alright...sure can't be blamed for the butchered disposal that has hurt us most

good coach by virtue of not being a bad coach...as long as he has the players united and believeing, most of his job is done...

now, if they can just hit a few targets...

Grant Thomas had 5 yrs - Ross Lyons had 18 games work it edited to remove abuseAnd who the f@rk would ever get credibility reading the shyte you come up with anyway nor care if they didnt have it by your warped standards??????

Add to the topic rather than personalise it and if you cant muster a sensible thought *edited to remove abuse*

[St. Luke]

St Luke, you can't be serious. "We won two quarters and nearly won a third". You beauty!!!!! What a team we are!!!

I am serious actually. We made some stupid mistakes that cost us dearly and don't even get me started on the umpiring. I'm amazed Dal Santo wasn't reported for headbutting Halls elbow - simply ridiculous!

We're talking about a 17 point loss on a foreign ground. I think we're being far too critical on the guys considering who and where we were playing. Anyway, I'm over it! If we're serious about this season we can still make it off our own backs and that starts with Freo this week!

[Dan Warna]

rant Thomas had 5 yrs - Ross Lyons had 18 games work it you simple pr!ck.!!!!!

And who the f@rk would ever get credibility reading the shyte you come up with anyway nor care if they didnt have it by your warped standards??????

Add to the topic rather than personalise it and if you cant muster a sensible thought shut the f@rk up


teffers dishing out the abuse.

btw he wasn't brought in as a rookie coach, he was brought in to finish the job.

and look at the team GT inherited and where they were, and look at the team RL inherited.

[/b]

[Iratedebate]

teffers dishing out the abuse.

btw he wasn't brought in as a rookie coach, he was brought in to finish the job.

and look at the team GT inherited and where they were, and look at the team RL inherited

Yep due to Malcolm Blight and poor ladder finishes, GT inherited the best of both worlds. He inherited talented players with experience and the BEST young kids in the country. RL on the other hand inherited a team that has been in decline the last few yrs and one that has topped up and virtually added no young talent to the group due to pathetically poor list management