Max vs Ben
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Re: Max vs Ben
There are days when I'd take someone like McCluggage and 2 x 2nd rounders for him in a heartbeat and other days where I wouldn't trade him for the world, but unfortunately the later are few and far between.
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Re: Max vs Ben
I wonder how St Kilda would be performing (and how we'd look like in games) if we'd just made the right choice with our number 1 draft picks in 2014... which would in turn have changed our philosophy and choices in later years.
How about this scenario. I won't go back to the 2013 draft, because of the uncertainty, but in 2014 we all know Christian Petracca was the obvious choice. That means we prioritise change to the midfield group and it could have meant getting a fair return for trading out Jack Steven in 2018 ( when he first said he wanted out).
If Richo and Lethlean weren't more concerned about saving their jobs than they were about getting St Kilda closer to becoming a premiership contender, then after Roo and Joey retired they should have acknowledged that there needed to be a bottoming out. It happened anyway... even if those two sold the board a bunch of fairytales.
So...back to the hypothetical..It's 2017. We know that we'll be looking for a KP Forward with Roo's retirement imminent and only Josh Bruce in that role...so in the 2017 draft we get Clark at pick 7 and Aaron Naughton at pick 8.
So...we get Petracca and he develops and stays with us through to 2018....then we look to add more mids as we bottom out in 2018 and (apologies to Max here) we select Connor Rozee with our first pick.
So instead of McCartin, Coffield and King. We'd have Petracca, Naughton and Rozee![🤔](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f914.svg)
Even if we did go for King with our first pick, we could have held on to our FRDP at the end of 2019...and that would have meant we'd have a choice of Flanders (pick 11) or...Kozi Pickett who went to Melbourne at pick 12 or Will Day(13), Miles Bergman (pick 14).
Without the board sucombing to Lethlean's inclusions with Hannebery, Hill, Howard, Jones and Butler we could have been doing what we did the last few years (i.e. hit the draft hard). But done it earlier and perhaps been more advanced than where we are now.
If we went down that path of doing a proper rebuild in 2017/18/19 we should have had both Naughton and Max King. They could interchange forward and back (in their first 2-3 years) with their development. And we'd currently have a strong and deep and talented midfield..oh well
.If only
How about this scenario. I won't go back to the 2013 draft, because of the uncertainty, but in 2014 we all know Christian Petracca was the obvious choice. That means we prioritise change to the midfield group and it could have meant getting a fair return for trading out Jack Steven in 2018 ( when he first said he wanted out).
If Richo and Lethlean weren't more concerned about saving their jobs than they were about getting St Kilda closer to becoming a premiership contender, then after Roo and Joey retired they should have acknowledged that there needed to be a bottoming out. It happened anyway... even if those two sold the board a bunch of fairytales.
So...back to the hypothetical..It's 2017. We know that we'll be looking for a KP Forward with Roo's retirement imminent and only Josh Bruce in that role...so in the 2017 draft we get Clark at pick 7 and Aaron Naughton at pick 8.
So...we get Petracca and he develops and stays with us through to 2018....then we look to add more mids as we bottom out in 2018 and (apologies to Max here) we select Connor Rozee with our first pick.
So instead of McCartin, Coffield and King. We'd have Petracca, Naughton and Rozee
Even if we did go for King with our first pick, we could have held on to our FRDP at the end of 2019...and that would have meant we'd have a choice of Flanders (pick 11) or...Kozi Pickett who went to Melbourne at pick 12 or Will Day(13), Miles Bergman (pick 14).
Without the board sucombing to Lethlean's inclusions with Hannebery, Hill, Howard, Jones and Butler we could have been doing what we did the last few years (i.e. hit the draft hard). But done it earlier and perhaps been more advanced than where we are now.
If we went down that path of doing a proper rebuild in 2017/18/19 we should have had both Naughton and Max King. They could interchange forward and back (in their first 2-3 years) with their development. And we'd currently have a strong and deep and talented midfield..oh well
![Crying or Very sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
Last edited by Scollop on Tue 09 Apr 2024 9:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Max vs Ben
Last season Ben had about 7-8 weeks when he got consistently 0 to 1 possession and no goals he is very lazy compared to Max and played most of his junior career as a KD not much forward.
He can't be drooped either Drew tried last season but was told by club Ben kind is not droppable.
interesting if Hardwick is in that position what will happen.
He can't be drooped either Drew tried last season but was told by club Ben kind is not droppable.
interesting if Hardwick is in that position what will happen.
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Re: Max vs Ben
We are the next pick club
2001 Judd
2007 Dangerfield
2013 Bontempelli
2014 Petracca
2017 Naughton
2018 Rozee
All taken with the very next pick after ours - there are more, that’s just from memory
Then there Frawley and Reiwoldt in 2006 taken a few picks after ours
Jimmy Bartel in 2001 taken 2 picks after our pick
Our drafting history is tragic
2001 Judd
2007 Dangerfield
2013 Bontempelli
2014 Petracca
2017 Naughton
2018 Rozee
All taken with the very next pick after ours - there are more, that’s just from memory
Then there Frawley and Reiwoldt in 2006 taken a few picks after ours
Jimmy Bartel in 2001 taken 2 picks after our pick
Our drafting history is tragic
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Re: Max vs Ben
Glad we got Max over Ben. He has seniority and is the alpha, not to mention his mum’s favourite
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Re: Max vs Ben
Ben 14.6
Max 6.6
What is going wrong with the way we use Max or how he plays at StK compared to Ben at GC
Max 6.6
What is going wrong with the way we use Max or how he plays at StK compared to Ben at GC
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Re: Max vs Ben
Is that the right question?
Just because they are twins does it mean they should both have equal talent and or have to play the same position equally well.
Max has rarely looked comfortable, Ben does.
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Re: Max vs Ben
You’d think twins
The same height, the same weight, the same experience, same position
Both done an ACL and a few other injuries
Yeah, they are comparable
The same height, the same weight, the same experience, same position
Both done an ACL and a few other injuries
Yeah, they are comparable
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Re: Max vs Ben
What I found really strange
At a f50 ball up, Ro was obviously set up behind the ball outside 50
Membrey took the ruck contest (at 188cm) opposed to Briggs
Obviously Briggs got an easy HO to advantage and GWS cleared the ball
We had 202cm Max King 15m away in the goal square (completely irrelevant
And the ‘second ruck’ Mitch Owens 190cm nearby in the corridor
I’d have King taking the ball up
Owens at the clearance
In fact nothing wrong with King taking f50 ruck contests
He’s 6’8”
At a f50 ball up, Ro was obviously set up behind the ball outside 50
Membrey took the ruck contest (at 188cm) opposed to Briggs
Obviously Briggs got an easy HO to advantage and GWS cleared the ball
We had 202cm Max King 15m away in the goal square (completely irrelevant
And the ‘second ruck’ Mitch Owens 190cm nearby in the corridor
I’d have King taking the ball up
Owens at the clearance
In fact nothing wrong with King taking f50 ruck contests
He’s 6’8”
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Re: Max vs Ben
Yeah but you’re forgetting that this is Winx we’re talking aboutB.M wrote: ↑Sun 14 Apr 2024 9:02pm What I found really strange
At a f50 ball up, Ro was obviously set up behind the ball outside 50
Membrey took the ruck contest (at 188cm) opposed to Briggs
Obviously Briggs got an easy HO to advantage and GWS cleared the ball
We had 202cm Max King 15m away in the goal square (completely irrelevant
And the ‘second ruck’ Mitch Owens 190cm nearby in the corridor
I’d have King taking the ball up
Owens at the clearance
In fact nothing wrong with King taking f50 ruck contests
He’s 6’8”
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
You don’t run Winx at Warnnambool in the steeple chase or regional Group 4 races…do you?
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Joking obviously. Roo and Joey and few others christened Max with that nickname way before he earned it!!
The ridiculous thing was that Lethlean and Richardson treated him like he was a superstar the moment he set foot in the club
He was going to be the next Rooy and Buddy combined.
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Re: Max vs Ben
So we’ve established that they play differently.
That’s great news as it means that there should be room for both in our forward line !
Throw the cheque book at Ben and bring him home - along with a couple of midfielders.
That’s great news as it means that there should be room for both in our forward line !
Throw the cheque book at Ben and bring him home - along with a couple of midfielders.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
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Re: Max vs Ben
St Kilda has always pinned its hopes on individuals, as far back as I remember.
Until we put the team and club first, we will keep making the same mistakes.
Until we put the team and club first, we will keep making the same mistakes.
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Re: Max vs Ben
Yes, we have and unfortunately we are still doing the messiah complex.
Though at the moment it all seems to be about the coach rather than a single player.
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Re: Max vs Ben
Teams are no good without star individuals
Name a premiership team - I’ll give you half a dozen superstars
Name a premiership team - I’ll give you half a dozen superstars
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Re: Max vs Ben
In 2016?
Bontempelli, Liberatore, McCrae, Daniel, Johannison, Wood, Boyd, Dunkley, Stringer, Morris
Bontempelli, Liberatore, McCrae, Daniel, Johannison, Wood, Boyd, Dunkley, Stringer, Morris
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Re: Max vs Ben
Bontempelli - definitely
McCrae - 3 time AA
Liberatore- absolute gun
Dale Morris - gun
Easton Wood - gun
Caleb Daniel - AA
Stringer - in 2016 was I think AA and a star forward
Johannison- was outstanding in 2016
I am grading all these players on there form in 2016
They finished 7th remember- and had a form spike in the finals
McCrae - 3 time AA
Liberatore- absolute gun
Dale Morris - gun
Easton Wood - gun
Caleb Daniel - AA
Stringer - in 2016 was I think AA and a star forward
Johannison- was outstanding in 2016
I am grading all these players on there form in 2016
They finished 7th remember- and had a form spike in the finals