Reserves competition

[Sanctorum]

In our latest weekly lunch with my Saints mates in Brisbane we discussed the pros and cons of St Kilda's reserves team competing in the VFL in it's own right and sporting the club's iconic jumpers.

Media reports indicate that both SA teams plus WC Eagles are open to having their reserves team play in the VFL, as already do Sydney, GWS, Brisbane and Gold Coast.

Of the ten Victorian teams only Melbourne (Casey), Hawthorn (Box Hill) and St Kilda (Sandringham) do not have reserves teams playing in the VFL in their own right and identity.

It was suggested that these three clubs opt to remain linked to their VFL affiliates because of the cost factor but only St Kilda would have that concern, if in fact it is an issue.

It was also suggested that having all 18 AFL teams in their own reserves competition would damage the existing second tier comps in Victoria, SA and WA, a fertile breeding ground for future AFL recruits.

From what I have found online it appears this matter is on the agenda for the AFL Commission to examine and resolve, with the establishment of a new comp as soon as 2025.

Presumably the weekly playing rosters would be predominantly senior players who can't get a game in the firsts, topped up with young talent from the team's youth academies.

It seems to me that this would be a good thing because it's a return to the pre-expansion traditions of seconds teams; I'm also sure supporters are far more likely to go and watch them play as Saints instead of Dragons. Another factor for interstate supporters is that we get the chance to see our boys in action a bit more than we do currently.

I would be interested to read what other forumites think of this proposal.

[Otiman]

The more it's spoken about the more likely it is to happen.

Bring back the curtain raisers, televise the final quarter as part of the coverage.

It's a no brainer, the VFA is long dead and we are beating its corpse.

[Vortex]

There's one reason a curtain raiser game will never be revived, and that's concentration spans.

The youth of today can't spend more than 5 seconds of not being plugged into digital media let alone sit in a chair at the footy for more than one game.

I once heard the AFL investigated even shortening AFL matches because young people get bored. It's why you get the lights and music show now at games...."fan engagement" ...you lose the audience apparently if you dont keep flashing the lights and playing loud noise.

[B.M]

What is the benefit?

We control Sandy as it is

[CQ SAINT]

What is the benefit?

We control Sandy as it is

Exposure for development in a national competition.
A strong case to have our development zones protected due to the proof of our influence through our development programs.
National comp games being played at Seaford and Moorabbin.
Income generation and value added memberships for locals in our development t areas.

TBO needs upgrading. There will be a season when they can't play there.

The Bayside Saints has a certain ring to it.

AFL reserves being played in the same fixture will generate more TV time.

We will have connections to two U/18's squads, A women's team and 2 AFL sides.

Sandy might want to stand alone. I'm sure they will get the option, to go down a level, what ever that will be. But I doubt it very much.

The only decision to make is the names and branding, Sandringhams Saints, The Bayside Saints or Sandrigham reserves. Seeing Sandrigham don't have an AFL club, the last one isn't likely.

[skeptic]

We had an AFL reserves and a VFL
Then we had an VFL/Reserves system
Now it’s more a like an almost fully national VFL reserves
And the next step is going to be a nation wide reserves

Seems very full circle doesn’t it.

Might just be me but I think we’ve essentially controlled and run Sandy for the last few years… and the combined Sandy/St.Kilda presence in the bayside and the TBO… I really like it.
Like Sandy’s presence, colours, history, ground etc
I like that pair us both together is on brand with what we want to do

And I love the idea that with a full list, Sandy might actually have good depth and be competitive this year.

Since the original VFL went under… I don’t think we’ve had a reserves team that has been anything other than sucky and it feels like we’re finally on the verge of making this work.

I hope we see it out.

[The G Train Legacy]

There's one reason a curtain raiser game will never be revived, and that's concentration spans.

The youth of today can't spend more than 5 seconds of not being plugged into digital media let alone sit in a chair at the footy for more than one game.

I once heard the AFL investigated even shortening AFL matches because young people get bored. It's why you get the lights and music show now at games...."fan engagement" ...you lose the audience apparently if you dont keep flashing the lights and playing loud noise.

The curtain raisers were stopped to maintain grounds in good order for the main event.

Reserves curtain raisers would see punters come to games earlier, spend more time there and subsequently more money. Not that the extra $$ would likely go to the Club.

[Vortex]

There's one reason a curtain raiser game will never be revived, and that's concentration spans.

The youth of today can't spend more than 5 seconds of not being plugged into digital media let alone sit in a chair at the footy for more than one game.

I once heard the AFL investigated even shortening AFL matches because young people get bored. It's why you get the lights and music show now at games...."fan engagement" ...you lose the audience apparently if you dont keep flashing the lights and playing loud noise.

The curtain raisers were stopped to maintain grounds in good order for the main event.

Reserves curtain raisers would see punters come to games earlier, spend more time there and subsequently more money. Not that the extra $$ would likely go to the Club.

If the AFL thought they could make money out of a curtain raiser they'd make the players swim in mud whilst wearing pink tootoos. But there is zero marketability in a curtain raiser, at least on a regular weekend basis anyway. The modern life doesn't have time and the modern human doesn't have the concentration span.

The AFL would put an AFLW match on as a curtain raiser before they do a VFL game but even then it would have to be a final to make it the slightest bit enticing and also to allow optimal scheduling which would be impossible around every weekend of a H&A season. And the frequency could only be one or two per season anyway as any more would fatigue the market quickly.

And then there is concentration span issues for they young. If you think curtain raisers would work you are probably around the 60 year old mark or older. That's not meant to be a back hander but more about marketing and demographics and interest and motivation factors.

[Impatient Sainter]

What is the benefit?

We control Sandy as it is

If we control Sandringham then why dont we play in Saints colours, like Hawks/Box Hill and Melbourne/Casey? I have no doubt we would have our VFL side if the club could afford it.

[B.M]

For the development of our players, does it matter what jumper the reserves are in?

[saynta]

For the development of our players, does it matter what jumper the reserves are in?

Ah, no.

[shanegrambeau]

Like Sandy and it is part of my lil old world down there.
And we are cousins in a sense.


If St Kilda wants to give more proof to its brand and have its own seconds team, then do so it but for heavens sake , don’t use a different name! What’s the point?

The idea is to flog the brand. Like the Winfield or Marlboro sign. I vote no to some weak name like Moorabbin Saints

So if there is to be a seconds, call it St Kilda ..and flog the St Kilda name.

Sell St Kilda merch at the games Have real St Kilda players come down and meet fans etc.

Call it St Kilda

Better still play it in St Kilda !!

Other than that, Sandy are our friends. No?

[Impatient Sainter]

There's one reason a curtain raiser game will never be revived, and that's concentration spans.

The youth of today can't spend more than 5 seconds of not being plugged into digital media let alone sit in a chair at the footy for more than one game.

I once heard the AFL investigated even shortening AFL matches because young people get bored. It's why you get the lights and music show now at games...."fan engagement" ...you lose the audience apparently if you dont keep flashing the lights and playing loud noise.

There are still a number of supporters that make the time to get to both games quite often. They might watch the Saints at Marvel on a Saturday evening and then turn up on Sunday to watch Sandringham at Trevor Barker Oval. Personally I watch both games (TV) each week. Thats not to suggest they all would go and watch both games back to back but it gives supporters the choice. If they are die hard supporters they will choose to get to the venue early and watch both the VFL and AFL games. They come in all forms and age groups including young people.

I think the idea has merit perhaps initially with perhaps a select 6-8 games per season. I do think the AFL would benefit by growing the link and support between the VFL and AFL teams. Not everyone is the same but for me watching the VFL holds as much interest as the AFL, it provides a wholeistic footy experience that I grew up with.

[Sanctorum]

It's unlkely that reserves games will ever be played again before the seniors like they did in the old days, for a variety of reasons, and that's not a problem.

If St Kilda ditch their current association with Sandringham, which is my preference, then the Dragons will have the option to remain in a subsidiary competition which could still be called "VFL", in company with other Melbourne teams currently in the VFL:

Box Hill
Casey (formerly Springvale?)
Coburg
Geelong Falcons
Frankston
Northern Bullants (Preston)
Port Melbourne
Werrribee
Williamstown

The new comp can simply be called "AFL Reserves" or if the AFL can find a naming sponsor for the trophy, for example "Telstra Cup".

[B.M]

There should definitely be an AFL reserves

Richmond - punt road
North - Arden St
Adelaide - ?????
Port - Alberton
Brisbane - ?????
Carlton - Princes Park (IKON)
Collingwood - VIC Park
Essendon - Tullamarine
Freo - Fremantle Oval
Geelong - Skilled
Hawthorn - Waverley
Melbourne - ?????
Stk - Moorabbin
Sydney- ?????
GWS - Giants Stadium
West Coast - ?????
Bulldogs - Whitten oval

Women play curtain raiser to AFL reserves

VFL
Have u19s and Seniors - affiliate with AFL clubs to provide supplementary players if necessary
Williamstown
Werribee
Frankston
Box Hill
Casey
Sandringham
Coburg
Preston
North Ballerat

Then have Ammos
And Suburban
EFL
EDFL
SFL
MPFL


Elite U18 comp

[spert]

Not sure if the Sandy alliance is good or bad for us. Watching Sandy last season was a bit sad, and I don't think that our promising youngsters or fringe players can improve greatly by playing poor quality football as we see at Sandy. I guess it all comes down to costs, and if we were to run a reserves team, then it would need to be bolstered by a number of players who probably would never get senior AFL games. Maybe better to rotate young players more regularly through the senior team and give them exposure to what they need to do, and this would also put pressure on senior players for positions. Dunno

[shanegrambeau]

Who says this?

“ We welcome the announcement from Tim Wilson - Federal Liberal Member for Goldstein over the weekend, making an election promise of $1.3m towards our Infrastructure Re-Development Project at Wilson Storage Trevor Barker Beach Oval.”

Sandy FC

And this…?
“ We continue to work with our local MPs at both State & Federal level, and Bayside City Council, to secure the funding required to undertake this project. “

Don’t discount the local politics ??

Who knows? A floating casino just off at Sandy Yacht club? With a tinny shuttle to the Beach Oval??

Could be on the cards?

https://www.sandringhamfc.com.au/latest ... evelopment

With the romance of the name : Wilson Storage Trevor Barker Oval, anything is possible. Call the Tinny HMST Wilson Storage )His Majesty’s St Kilda Tinny

[samuraisaint]

I know it has to come down to basic dollars and cents, but the beach oval surface and the way players are not developing properly at Sandy is one key area of concern. That, and our debt.

I know Melbourne and Casey (Springvale) and Hawks and Box Hill have been successful but try as I might, I cannot see any passion on the field when I watch Sandy play. None.

IMO, whack a Sandringham FC (add relevant year here) on the back of a St Kilda guernsey and get them back playing in a St Kilda reserves outfit at Moorabbin, then things will fall into place better.

[B.M]

Performance comes down to availability- that simple