St Kilda to kick on

[Sanctorum]

From today's Hun, not to be read by anyone who disparages the Murdoch press

"ST KILDA TO KICK ON by Jay Clark

They have already been dubbed likely sliders in 2024.

The popular theory is St Kilda caught the opposition off guard in 2023 by making finals but are set to come back to the pack next season.

Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.

Internally there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, plus new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow, that will help inject some midfield quality.

Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.

The list still lacks star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.

Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have – but will it be enough?

What happened in 2023?

The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system that choked the opposition.

They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder pre-season. Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.

The small forwards put enough of a score on and kids such as Owens and Wanganeen-Milera came on in a big way.

Ticks everywhere.

But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final.

It was a reminder that there is still a decent gap to the top teams – but there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.

Where do they finish in 2024?

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months, and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.

They now have some play space to make some moves.

The spine will be a key focus next season.

Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle and if King can play a full season, he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman Medal.

But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal? It is a huge season for the full-forward who the Saints need to become an A-grader.

The midfield has plenty of workhorses but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Jack Steele.

Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.

If Lyon can keep them in the finals (and win 13 games) for a second-straight year, it would be a super effort.

Biggest improver in 2024?

Phillipou is the one. The big-bodied midfield-forward has special traits and can rise up to pluck a mark, or spin out of a pack to lob a goal on the run.

But a long season caught up with him last year as the top-10 pick rounded out the campaign in quiet fashion, averaging nine touches in his last five games.

As his fitness builds – and he has shone on the track so far this pre-season – Phillipou will be given greater responsibilities to lead this new era at St Kilda.

But Lyon will make him earn it with hard work at training and consistent efforts in games.

Phillipou has a huge upside in his game and the Saints need him to become a legitimate star after he gets 100 to 150 games under his belt.

Essendon took Elijah Tsatas over Phillipou at pick five in the 2022 draft, but it was a close call.

Matthew Allison, Josh Battle, Dan Butler, Ryan Byrnes, Liam Stocker, Jimmy Webster, Zak Jones, Tom Campbell, Jack Hayes, Max Heath, Oli Hotton, Dougal Howard, Isaac Keeler, Angus McLennan, James van Es, Mattaes Phillipou, Jimmy Webster, Mason Wood, Tim Membrey, Seb Ross, Ben Paton and Cooper Sharman."

Clark raises a couple of interesting points. Like many supporters, including myself, he questions Max King's "hunger, durability and accuracy in front of goals". There's no doubt that if King is going to be an elite key forward he needs to develop a tank like Nick Riewoldt, and if the latter doesn't go back to the US he could do the club no greater service than to mentor the successor to his #12 guernsey to do exaxtly that in the pre-season.

It's good to know that Clark confirms what supporters have been saying, that Mattaes Phillipou is a potential future star.

[SaintWiki]

Surely Jay Clark's assumptions are embellished regarding what the coaching staff believe. I would have thought they already would have decided what each player needs to work on, bar none.

[shanegrambeau]

I like Jay Clark

No idea who wrote this/edited this, especially at this time of year. But probably makes no diff.
Or perhaps it was written in November and canned for future release? lol

Good points about article
1) He notes that Pou must be super talent and that his out put for the second half of the season was very low.

I concur and like some have mentioned, couldn’t fathom why he was being picked week-in, week-out for such a small contribution.

2) Max King
Fair enough to question but cruel . Max’s shoulder will be a career concern from the little I know.

3) GWS
Towels us up by classy kids

Interesting

1) doesn’t mention Hunter Clark and Zac Jones
These are possible ‘downers’ for expectations now.
So yes, we have Dow and Henry, but it will be a bonus if the former two can bely dampened expectations now

Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

[Vortex]

My take away

That we over achieved in 23 IS popular opinion

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months

Lyon is repairing our TPPs

A big year for Max in 24, needs to deliver on his franchise potential.

SS is furtile ground for corporate media outlets to steal content… more so this time of year.

[B.M]

Lyon is list manager now??

[samuraisaint]

I like Jay Clark

No idea who wrote this/edited this, especially at this time of year. But probably makes no diff.
Or perhaps it was written in November and canned for future release? lol

Good points about article
1) He notes that Pou must be super talent and that his out put for the second half of the season was very low.

I concur and like some have mentioned, couldn’t fathom why he was being picked week-in, week-out for such a small contribution.

2) Max King
Fair enough to question but cruel . Max’s shoulder will be a career concern from the little I know.

Wayne Carey did a shoulder in 1997 as did McKernan. They played in 2 Grand Finals and a Premiership after 1997 and both played on for years after that.

And that was way back then; Sports science and reconstructions have improved a helluva lot in 27 years.

[Life Long Saint]

That we over achieved in 23 IS popular opinion

You can't overachieve. All you can do exceed expectations.
You acheve to a level that you're capable of reaching...Never more than that.

[Vortex]

Lyon is list manager now??

Not directly Im guessing but Id expect as all good managers should and based on some of his comments, he has overseen the development and implementation of a policy to avoid mismanaging our TPP to avoid overpaying too few at the expense of list depth and list quality.

[skeptic]

I think Lyon is a good example of someone who whilst not running the various departments… demonstrates a reasonable level of insight into how they work and consequently has a degree of input as to what he wants from them.

BM and I are having this discussion RE Richo (sorry Vortex, I won’t bring it up again for a while) in another thread and how he didn’t have the cattle… and it wasn’t his role to work on skills/fitness etc.

One gets the impression with RTB, that he’s not delegating to his fitness people and seeing what they produce - he gives off the impression that he has his standards that he expects players to meet, and he pushes the the assistants and the players to get there.

If RTB succeeds or fails, it’ll be based on the plan that he has in mind that he’ll drive across all areas. IMO, our more recent coaches have been less inclined to take that accountability

[CQ SAINT]

It's a simple plan, you control what you can, and set high expectation for what is achievable.

If the expectation is that the coach will drive success, then on-field performance is the result of a complex whole.

A system of interconnected functions.

Lyon provides the purpose of each activity and others provide the determination to have that purpose met.

[saintsRrising]

I think Lyon is a good example of someone who whilst not running the various departments… demonstrates a reasonable level of insight into how they work and consequently has a degree of input as to what he wants from them.

BM and I are having this discussion RE Richo (sorry Vortex, I won’t bring it up again for a while) in another thread and how he didn’t have the cattle… and it wasn’t his role to work on skills/fitness etc.

One gets the impression with RTB, that he’s not delegating to his fitness people and seeing what they produce - he gives off the impression that he has his standards that he expects players to meet, and he pushes the the assistants and the players to get there.

If RTB succeeds or fails, it’ll be based on the plan that he has in mind that he’ll drive across all areas. IMO, our more recent coaches have been less inclined to take that accountability

When Lyon came back one thing he said was " I'm the leader of football. "

Richo and Ratts were not that, they were just the head coach. "Good Blokes" that were content to plod along.

So Lyon leads and influences every football aspect at St Kilda that impacts on our ability to win football games whether that be our next games, or future games.

He is also strongly focused on winning a flag, and in leading the club there through good football decisions, good football people , hard work and discipline.


So Lyon is not our list manager, but he very much will be influencing who comes and goes. Lyon have met with Billings and Gresh last year and will have ben central to them going.

He will have also been central to the type of players we have drafted and traded in, even if others have done the legwork.

Lyon is not a Dictator, he knows that you need a strong team of people both offield, and on, to be ultimately successful. But he also knows that you need a strong football leader, and that is Lyon's most important role at St Kilda.

I have no doubt that Lyon is a hard taskmaster and if you are not up to the standards he demands, both offield and on, then your time will cease at the Saints, and Lyon is also ruthless too in that if there is a better option available then change will be made.

[B.M]

Is he lying when he uses the phrase

I let the cobblers cobble

And don’t get stuck in the weeds??

[skeptic]

Is he lying when he uses the phrase

I let the cobblers cobble

And don’t get stuck in the weeds??

Are you saying he has no input at all?

[nostalgicsaint]

Is he lying when he uses the phrase

I let the cobblers cobble

And don’t get stuck in the weeds??

Leaders let individual contributors do their job.

But they still make sure the individual contributors know what is expected of them and provide relevant context as to how their role is relevant to the bigger picture.

[Yorkeys]

The title uses a slang reference to a past party boy image the club had.

A little backhander?

What passes for humour in the Hun. Or is the journo not that clever.

[CQ SAINT]

When Lyon was quoted as saying it was the 'end of an era' i believe he was lamenting his lack of control over the football department, and was already negotiating; because he didn't get what he wanted moving forward.

I'd have taken top ten draft picks for anyone, I could of get the most from, and rebuilt.

The dwarf lied and then tried it.

Richo got six years as a result and we were farked.

Ratten lost control to Rath and Leathlean.

Ross is back with a better plan, better facilities and a clear development plan which looks sustainable, whether he leads or not.

A new era is being born.

[samuraisaint]

From today's Hun, not to be read by anyone who disparages the Murdoch press

"ST KILDA TO KICK ON by Jay Clark

They have already been dubbed likely sliders in 2024.

The popular theory is St Kilda caught the opposition off guard in 2023 by making finals but are set to come back to the pack next season.

Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.

Internally there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, plus new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow, that will help inject some midfield quality.

Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.

The list still lacks star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.

Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have – but will it be enough?

What happened in 2023?

The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system that choked the opposition.

They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder pre-season. Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.

The small forwards put enough of a score on and kids such as Owens and Wanganeen-Milera came on in a big way.

Ticks everywhere.

But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final.

It was a reminder that there is still a decent gap to the top teams – but there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.

Where do they finish in 2024?

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months, and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.

They now have some play space to make some moves.

The spine will be a key focus next season.

Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle and if King can play a full season, he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman Medal.

But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal? It is a huge season for the full-forward who the Saints need to become an A-grader.

The midfield has plenty of workhorses but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Jack Steele.

Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.

LOL at the HS listing the Gold Coast Suns as being a team which are looking to take our place in the top 8 and play finals next season

Based on what? A new coach Or their complete inability to manage to NEVER finish higher than 12th! 12th!! In twelve seasons.
They only won against us because they sacked their coach the week they played us. They even threw away a five-goal lead against North! That's the same North who had previously lost 20 games in a row. And they kicked twenty goals in the process

The Bulldogs potentially yes, I can see that, and the Crows were robbed of their rightful place in the top 8 last season at the expense of Sydney, but the Suns are no chance.

[samuraisaint]

I like Jay Clark

No idea who wrote this/edited this, especially at this time of year. But probably makes no diff.
Or perhaps it was written in November and canned for future release? lol

Good points about article
1) He notes that Pou must be super talent and that his out put for the second half of the season was very low.

I concur and like some have mentioned, couldn’t fathom why he was being picked week-in, week-out for such a small contribution.

2) Max King
Fair enough to question but cruel . Max’s shoulder will be a career concern from the little I know.

3) GWS
Towels us up by classy kids

Interesting

1) doesn’t mention Hunter Clark and Zac Jones
These are possible ‘downers’ for expectations now.
So yes, we have Dow and Henry, but it will be a bonus if the former two can bely dampened expectations now

Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

He predicted we would drop out (of the top 8). Only Mark Robinson at the HS thinks we will play finals in 2024. I think the only media pundit who picked us to play finals last season was Tim Watson.

[shanegrambeau]

I like Jay Clark…..
Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

He predicted we would drop out (of the top 8). Only Mark Robinson at the HS thinks we will play finals in 2024. I think the only media pundit who picked us to play finals last season was Tim Watson.

And he says, “ the popular opinion is…they were lucky and they’ll slide”

As if he is different! Nice gambit!!

One of those, ‘hey, I never told a lie’

Sneaky bastard!

[samuraisaint]

I like Jay Clark…..
Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

He predicted we would drop out (of the top 8). Only Mark Robinson at the HS thinks we will play finals in 2024. I think the only media pundit who picked us to play finals last season was Tim Watson.

And he says, “ the popular opinion is…they were lucky and they’ll slide”

As if he is different! Nice gambit!!

One of those, ‘hey, I never told a lie’

Sneaky bastard!

I think, so long as we can beat Geelong at Geelong, Richmond at Norwood and the Hawks in Tassie, we should make the Top 8 and play finals.

[NickyDal]

From today's Hun, not to be read by anyone who disparages the Murdoch press

"ST KILDA TO KICK ON by Jay Clark

They have already been dubbed likely sliders in 2024.

The popular theory is St Kilda caught the opposition off guard in 2023 by making finals but are set to come back to the pack next season.

Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.

Internally there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, plus new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow, that will help inject some midfield quality.

Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.

The list still lacks star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.

Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have – but will it be enough?

What happened in 2023?

The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system that choked the opposition.

They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder pre-season. Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.

The small forwards put enough of a score on and kids such as Owens and Wanganeen-Milera came on in a big way.

Ticks everywhere.

But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final.

It was a reminder that there is still a decent gap to the top teams – but there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.

Where do they finish in 2024?

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months, and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.

They now have some play space to make some moves.

The spine will be a key focus next season.

Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle and if King can play a full season, he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman Medal.

But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal? It is a huge season for the full-forward who the Saints need to become an A-grader.

The midfield has plenty of workhorses but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Jack Steele.

Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.

LOL at the HS listing the Gold Coast Suns as being a team which are looking to take our place in the top 8 and play finals next season

Based on what? A new coach Or their complete inability to manage to NEVER finish higher than 12th! 12th!! In twelve seasons.
They only won against us because they sacked their coach the week they played us. They even threw away a five-goal lead against North! That's the same North who had previously lost 20 games in a row. And they kicked twenty goals in the process

The Bulldogs potentially yes, I can see that, and the Crows were robbed of their rightful place in the top 8 last season at the expense of Sydney, but the Suns are no chance.

With the list GC have now I can see them finishing top 4 in 2025 and consistently playing finals for the next decade.

[shanegrambeau]

I like Jay Clark…..
Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

He predicted we would drop out (of the top 8). Only Mark Robinson at the HS thinks we will play finals in 2024. I think the only media pundit who picked us to play finals last season was Tim Watson.

And he says, “ the popular opinion is…they were lucky and they’ll slide”

As if he is different! Nice gambit!!

One of those, ‘hey, I never told a lie’

Sneaky bastard!

I think, so long as we can beat Geelong at Geelong, Richmond at Norwood and the Hawks in Tassie, we should make the Top 8 and play finals.

If I had to bet the house on it, I don’t see us beating Geelong at Geelong. Honestly, would you?

[samuraisaint]

I like Jay Clark…..
Anyway
I can’t wait to se e Jay Clark’s ladder predictions given that he separates himself from those who ‘predicted a slide’ so to speak, for the Saints

He predicted we would drop out (of the top 8). Only Mark Robinson at the HS thinks we will play finals in 2024. I think the only media pundit who picked us to play finals last season was Tim Watson.

And he says, “ the popular opinion is…they were lucky and they’ll slide”

As if he is different! Nice gambit!!

One of those, ‘hey, I never told a lie’

Sneaky bastard!

I think, so long as we can beat Geelong at Geelong, Richmond at Norwood and the Hawks in Tassie, we should make the Top 8 and play finals.

If I had to bet the house on it, I don’t see us beating Geelong at Geelong. Honestly, would you?

I am going to say something I normally wouldn't post. Despite not having won at Geelong this century - and with what must be said with very strong teams in that period (in the 2004-2006 seasons we won more matches than any other team in the AFL - however, we didn't play down there in our 2007-2011 seasons when we won 66% of our games), I don't believe that this means we will necessarily lose at Geelong in Round 1 this year.

Our average losing margin down there is 48 points since we last saluted, but we did go close as recently as 2021.

Did you know that we never played at KP with RL coaching us? But when he coached Freo they won at Geelong more than any other opponent (including a final). This gives me pause to go into this one with a lot more confidence than the previous games this century. I don't think Chito, NWM, Windhager, Caminiti, Matteas, King or Sharman could care less about losing down there by 100 points in 2014 and 2015 to be honest, and Henry and Hill used to win there anyway when they played for Freo. Lyon may even use the club record down there to set the players a challenge to do what the 2004-2011 teams could/did not.

That's my take.

[samuraisaint]

From today's Hun, not to be read by anyone who disparages the Murdoch press

"ST KILDA TO KICK ON by Jay Clark

They have already been dubbed likely sliders in 2024.

The popular theory is St Kilda caught the opposition off guard in 2023 by making finals but are set to come back to the pack next season.

Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.

Internally there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, plus new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow, that will help inject some midfield quality.

Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.

The list still lacks star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.

Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have – but will it be enough?

What happened in 2023?

The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system that choked the opposition.

They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder pre-season. Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.

The small forwards put enough of a score on and kids such as Owens and Wanganeen-Milera came on in a big way.

Ticks everywhere.

But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final.

It was a reminder that there is still a decent gap to the top teams – but there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.

Where do they finish in 2024?

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months, and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.

They now have some play space to make some moves.

The spine will be a key focus next season.

Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle and if King can play a full season, he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman Medal.

But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal? It is a huge season for the full-forward who the Saints need to become an A-grader.

The midfield has plenty of workhorses but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Jack Steele.

Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.

LOL at the HS listing the Gold Coast Suns as being a team which are looking to take our place in the top 8 and play finals next season

Based on what? A new coach Or their complete inability to manage to NEVER finish higher than 12th! 12th!! In twelve seasons.
They only won against us because they sacked their coach the week they played us. They even threw away a five-goal lead against North! That's the same North who had previously lost 20 games in a row. And they kicked twenty goals in the process

The Bulldogs potentially yes, I can see that, and the Crows were robbed of their rightful place in the top 8 last season at the expense of Sydney, but the Suns are no chance.

With the list GC have now I can see them finishing top 4 in 2025 and consistently playing finals for the next decade.

I was referring specifically to them replacing us in the Top 8 this season, but you left out the word 'if'. 'If' they hold onto that list. 'If' the new coach is immediately successful. 'If' they don't get key injuries and lose that one important player to injury at critical junctures of the season.

Young teams often fall away badly in the back halves of seasons. We saw it this year with our own team, and 2020 too, if we're being honest. But in both those seasons, our players righted the ship at the right time, and we qualified for finals. I think they should improve under Hardwick, but not enough to replace us in the Top 8 this year.

I don't get the misplaced optimism on them for 2024. Take the two final matches of last season. Allowing Carlton to come back from 40 points behind to beat them at home, then North kicked over 20 goals against them at a windswept Hobart Oval. That was the 'Roos highest score since 2019, and a team which have struggled to kick a goal at times in games recently.

They have had very good personnel for their entire time in the AFL competition and yet have never finished higher than twelfth. Curious indeed, isn't it?

[NickyDal]

From today's Hun, not to be read by anyone who disparages the Murdoch press

"ST KILDA TO KICK ON by Jay Clark

They have already been dubbed likely sliders in 2024.

The popular theory is St Kilda caught the opposition off guard in 2023 by making finals but are set to come back to the pack next season.

Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.

Internally there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, plus new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow, that will help inject some midfield quality.

Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.

The list still lacks star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.

Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have – but will it be enough?

What happened in 2023?

The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system that choked the opposition.

They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder pre-season. Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.

The small forwards put enough of a score on and kids such as Owens and Wanganeen-Milera came on in a big way.

Ticks everywhere.

But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final.

It was a reminder that there is still a decent gap to the top teams – but there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.

Where do they finish in 2024?

Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months, and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.

They now have some play space to make some moves.

The spine will be a key focus next season.

Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle and if King can play a full season, he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman Medal.

But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal? It is a huge season for the full-forward who the Saints need to become an A-grader.

The midfield has plenty of workhorses but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Jack Steele.

Adelaide, the Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.

LOL at the HS listing the Gold Coast Suns as being a team which are looking to take our place in the top 8 and play finals next season

Based on what? A new coach Or their complete inability to manage to NEVER finish higher than 12th! 12th!! In twelve seasons.
They only won against us because they sacked their coach the week they played us. They even threw away a five-goal lead against North! That's the same North who had previously lost 20 games in a row. And they kicked twenty goals in the process

The Bulldogs potentially yes, I can see that, and the Crows were robbed of their rightful place in the top 8 last season at the expense of Sydney, but the Suns are no chance.

With the list GC have now I can see them finishing top 4 in 2025 and consistently playing finals for the next decade.

I was referring specifically to them replacing us in the Top 8 this season, but you left out the word 'if'. 'If' they hold onto that list. 'If' the new coach is immediately successful. 'If' they don't get key injuries and lose that one important player to injury at critical junctures of the season.

Young teams often fall away badly in the back halves of seasons. We saw it this year with our own team, and 2020 too, if we're being honest. But in both those seasons, our players righted the ship at the right time, and we qualified for finals. I think they should improve under Hardwick, but not enough to replace us in the Top 8 this year.

I don't get the misplaced optimism on them for 2024. Take the two final matches of last season. Allowing Carlton to come back from 40 points behind to beat them at home, then North kicked over 20 goals against them at a windswept Hobart Oval. That was the 'Roos highest score since 2019, and a team which have struggled to kick a goal at times in games recently.

They have had very good personnel for their entire time in the AFL competition and yet have never finished higher than twelfth. Curious indeed, isn't it?

I hope you are right but I doubt it. They have the best young list in the whole comp now. Then when you factor in their Academy is producing top players now I can see them dominating the competition. Whether that translates to premierships I don't know. Look at their recent draft haul. Due to their academy and the sneaky advantages all 4 northern teams have, they got the equivalent of FOUR (4) first round draft picks. Think about that for a moment....