Will Jack Higgins go up a level?

[Otiman]

Higgins needs to play a different role in the front 6 this year. We have enough big forwards (now) with King, Caminiti, Membrey, Hayes and Sharman all available for selection round 1. You also have Philippou and Owens rotating through there.

His 'lead up' style as mentioned by another poster won't cut it, he will need to win the ball at ground level and create opportunities from there.

Otherwise he is just robbing a tall leading forward of their role, and most importantly ground position.

Out of the two, Butler is the more important asset, can play as a pressure forward, lay tackles, create opportunities, and the odd sneaky one out the back/over the top.

[shanegrambeau]

Higgins needs... a different role ..
....enough with King, Caminiti, Membrey, Hayes and Sharman...
... also... Philippou and Owens rotating....

His 'lead up' style..won't cut it..
Otherwise..just robbing a tall leading forward of their role..

Out of the two, Butler is the more important asset....

King
Good for 12 games
Caminiti
1 or 2 cameos, based on last year, guaranteed to destroy his team mates chances
Membrey
Based on last year..done
Hayes
cooked
Sharman
Shows promise


I know it sounds negative, and i haven't got a clue obviously. But as a genuine peanut fan, I think King has the most promise. Followed by Sharman. Pou is an unlnown. He might be a star. In cricket, he might be a Cam Green allrounder,or who knows , a Mitch Marsh might emerge???

I suspect Butler and HIggins are both over the hill, due to injury and concussion. I susppect that NWM might become an elite forward in the vogue of Nicky Winmar

[Otiman]

If King's only good for 12 games he's not worth being in the side. We are not in a position to build a team around him until he can put a full season together without injury. Which is a shame because he's the type you build around. Right now we're looking to build around Owens and Pou.

Caminiti was a first year player off no preseason. He has the tools to work on his craft.

Membrey could go either way, it's all between the ears.

Hayes and Sharman spot on. Hayes to be relied on only for depth, or second ruck to free up players like Caminiti and Owens.

[B.M]

How can any player guarantee not to get injured in AFL footy

Extreme athletes training at max intensity playing a ballistic contact sport

You’re lucky if you don’t get injured?!

King May never get injured again or he might get injured every year for the rest of his career???

It’s the same with all players, but when you are a KPF in pack marking situations- there always a risk!

[Yorkeys]

How can any player guarantee not to get injured in AFL footy

Extreme athletes training at max intensity playing a ballistic contact sport

You’re lucky if you don’t get injured?!

King May never get injured again or he might get injured every year for the rest of his career???

It’s the same with all players, but when you are a KPF in pack marking situations- there always a risk!

See T. Lynch of Richmond.

Heard Ange P response to a journo who was critical of his side's hamstring injuries: "..mate it's because these guys run very fast for long periods, you and I would not understand because we can't run like them...."
Similarly, if you are in pack marking situations often with defenders really wanting to hurt as much or more than getting the ball, there are going to be injuries. See T. Stewart of Geelong, punch to back of head and knees into the body specialist.

[Otiman]

There's unlucky, and then there's injury prone.

If you can't build a career because you can't get on the pitch, you're no good. See McCartin, McKenzie, Hanerbery with us.

[Big Max]

He’s not in the best 10 players at stk

Nor should a forward pocket be

Sinclair
Marshall
Steele
King
Wilkie
Crouch
Owens
Wanganeen Milera
Hill

Would be my best 10


Outside of that
Wood
Membrey
Ross
Clark
Webster
Higgins
Butler
Battle
Henry
Howard


Fringe
Windhager
Dow
Stocker
Byrnes
Sharman

Not sure he's in our best 15

[NickyDal]

He’s not in the best 10 players at stk

Nor should a forward pocket be

Sinclair
Marshall
Steele
King
Wilkie
Crouch
Owens
Wanganeen Milera
Hill

Would be my best 10


Outside of that
Wood
Membrey
Ross
Clark
Webster
Higgins
Butler
Battle
Henry
Howard


Fringe
Windhager
Dow
Stocker
Byrnes
Sharman

Not sure he's in our best 15

I strongly disagree.
He is easily in the top 10 best small forwards in the league let alone top 10 for St Kilda.
Wasn't he also our leading goal kicker last year??

[B.M]

Nope

Don’t agree

If he was a better kick, and better defensively maybe

I think Butler is a better small forward

[NickyDal]

Nope

Don’t agree

If he was a better kick, and better defensively maybe

I think Butler is a better small forward

I'm not sure how you can disagree that he was our leading goal kicker.

[B.M]

With 36 goals - he’s not a 2gpg small forward

Butler kicked 33 goals - and actually defended

[Scollop]

Higgins has the worst efficiency of all our key forwards

He kicked the most points for the year. Is that a good thing? What would have happened if we targetted a different forward?

I think there were circumstances that created the perfect storm for Higgo to be our highest goal scorer..and I'm not just talking about injuries to Skunk and Max King

Did Jack score the most goals for any St Kilda forward because he's the best option or best target?

Or...was it a case of, choose the guy who is 19 and has played a handful of games or go to Snags because he's on the lead?

He's certainly got strengths (speed, strength, marking etc..) and he seems to lift the team with his antics. I also like the fact that he gets under the skin of opposition defenders, but he has to improve if he wants to keep his spot imo

[CQ SAINT]

This data below features Jack Higgins career at StK., after tasting Grand final success and having serious health set backs at Richmond, and then life saving brain surgery, he picked himself up and asked for trade to his childhood Club.

Total/ave.

Games 59 / 19 proven himself durable despite health set backs resurfacing in 2022

Disposals 741 / 13.6 nice numbers for a lead-up goal kicking, defensive small

Tackles - 106 / 1.79 that will do me from the forward half. He needs to get it, not chase it.

Frees For - 53 / 1 he is doing something to get them, either leading up or tackling, both at the same time is not impossible, but pointless. If drops one, it's hard to make it up in such a congested spot on the ground. Thank God Richo left.

Cont Pos - 327 /6.5 excellent forwards %

Unc Pos - 414 / 7 excellent for a lead up.

inside 50 - 124 / 2 must ne getting fairly high up in half forward

Goals - 93 / 1.6 that's right BM, it's not 2.0 yet 27/30/36. It's damn close and is rising. Gresham and fancy foot Billings were getting cheapies and spraying them all over the place, at his expense,but not anymore

Behinds - 66 / 1.1 Wow. The PTSD around here is alarming.

Goal kicking accuracy 58% That's pretty good. 60% and above would be considered elite, but I'm sure he can work on his disposal efficiency as the forward line gels in to plan, rather than the kick and hope theory Richo bought us ans took into Melbourne's forward line when they thought 2 rucks were better than a ruck/forward option.

Higgins is everything Billings wasn't. He is not gathering stats, pretending to be a midfielder.

Butler does his hustling in the middle of the ground and can run all day at pace.

He and Hill should run a muck now with those other two Richo clowns out of the way.

Henry and Collard will learn from two very good mentors.

Henry is going to be a star. It's start this year.

[CQ SAINT]

I forgot about the brownlow votes.

One every 4/5 games in a so called, pathetic forward line, with so called, sub par mids.

Now I'm done.

[B.M]

He’s a GOP

[CQ SAINT]

He’s a GOP

Lol. Like you'd have any idea

[CQ SAINT]

,
Maybe we can compare him in two seasons to that 150 game champion named Billings and you will finally see what GO(150games)P actually looks like.

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

How can any player guarantee not to get injured in AFL footy

Extreme athletes training at max intensity playing a ballistic contact sport

You’re lucky if you don’t get injured?!

King May never get injured again or he might get injured every year for the rest of his career???

It’s the same with all players, but when you are a KPF in pack marking situations- there always a risk!

Well, at least he won't have Dougal Howard trying to pull his arm out of its socket this year. We hope........

[shanegrambeau]

.....after tasting Grand final success and having serious health set backs at Richmond, and then life saving brain surgery, he picked himself up and asked for trade to his childhood Club.

.....

1) I don't think Higgo played in any grand final or tasted success.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... ggins.html

2) It looks to me that he wasn't deemed to be good enough at Richmond as some more fancied stars started to rise.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/mis ... p56epa.htm

[NickyDal]

With 36 goals - he’s not a 2gpg small forward

Butler kicked 33 goals - and actually defended

Higgins only played 22 games in 2023 out of a possible 24 and kicked 36 goals. He has been improving every year he has been at the Saints. Give him a clean bill of health in 2024 and he just might kick 50 goals for the season. Bookmark it.

Once he hits his peak he will definitely be a 2gpg player. Bookmark that too.

[CQ SAINT]

.....after tasting Grand final success and having serious health set backs at Richmond, and then life saving brain surgery, he picked himself up and asked for trade to his childhood Club.

.....

1) I don't think Higgo played in any grand final or tasted success.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... ggins.html

2) It looks to me that he wasn't deemed to be good enough at Richmond as some more fancied stars started to rise.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/mis ... p56epa.htm

Caroline Wilson might have had a little to do with that article and Higgins was polite.

In 2020, senior players kept him out. He got chances when they were injured or took Covid leave.

Dimmer was playing up on the wife.
The Captain was breaking curfew with his wife.
Dusty was doing whatever he liked

Higgins was there 5 highest contested ball winner and fourth in inside 50's playing a new role in the middle.

He was the next mid off the rank and wanted to take his chances there. It didn't work out but it wasn't through fault of his own.

The era was over.

Dimma got burnt out and relocated

Higgins has been our best and most consistent forward since.

Read this. Its only a wiki article but its well written and researched with over 100 related source materials.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Hi ... ootballer)

Enjoy the read.

[shanegrambeau]

It’s fun and interesting to see Tigers and (some) Saints fans discuss him leaving Richmond.

My impression is that Butler was nominally the bigger loss, had it not been for his ankle injury, (something that might finish his career prematurely.)

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ ... 689/page-7

I like dean33’s comment. It sounds plausible.
“ I imagine not many tiger supporters spend much time thinking about Higgins. Can’t blame him for leaving, wasn’t getting paid much and wasn’t playing much, now getting paid much more and playing weekly. Good on him but to say we miss him is quite the stretch.”

PS. I don’t mind if you don’t give a rats about Big Footy..check out the arguments. It’s fun.

[CQ SAINT]

Haha. Thanks Shane.

There's enough nonsense here for me but I enjoy the banter and some good reads occasionally. I'd hate to to be a moderator, too much responsibility and level headedness. At least Skeptic hasn't got his up his arse.

I had a look because you were kind enough to link me up but i don't like big footy, there's too much to weed through and I dont like the cross club commentary. I find the commentary on Higgins character funny. He want s the best for himself and clearlynthat was going to be at St.Kilda and he took his chances and has had to overcome some serious doubt. He was unlucky not to get a cheap medallion but t by at club and there players hadd srptruggled for years. I think he was good enough but maybe other deserved a chance too.

The brain op really set a great start to a career back and must have been frightening for him and his family. I just see that kids in the crowd supporting us when I think of him.

There are some clever people there at BF though, who used to be here, but this is where I tune in for a my fix

I don't mind a good s*** stir and banter here and there. That will do me. I'm a willing participant.

I dont dislike any of the posters here either, in fact I've been lucky to only bump heads seriously once or twice in over 20 years of reading this and back then you couldnt get a word in edgeways anyway.

I think I've been active for for about 10 years, from when I retired from playing and coaching at 43 and have spent less time in a live football environment.

I'm just a loyal, one club person but I love Saintsational and don't know what I would do without a little footy banter.

Usually 2 lines at the club about a mates team is enough to get a laugh or a red face from Pies or Bombers supporter before it gets too heated.

I watch maybe 4 games a week and like to keep my head in the football news.

We have a very strong local club here in Hervey bay and it has a huge following and there is quite a few Saints here. It still a social thing for me.

For 28 years of my life, I coached and played and spent 15 - 20 hours a week at the club I played for in Qld and I played in a decent Victorian comp for 9 years from 15 years of age.

I don't care when players leave, or if they do well at another club. Once they are gone,the become irrelevant to me.

Generally I don't miss much footy news and there is a huge AFL fan base her and a decent sports club to follow them at.

Once of our local sides has dominated the regional league here for 3 decades and until a few years back I followed my wife and son playing here.

My son moved to Brisbane to play in a better comp and the wife retired at 40 and only took the sport up when she retired from the QBL State Basketball comp. We are a sports family.

I'm 53 and we have a no tackle social over 35's comp we're you just put on a coloured top and join in the team with the lower numbers and we go to a comp yearly with out regional towns. It's good to get away with the bys once a year and we often meet up with guys I've played with and against for 16 years in this state. I've been here 30 years, came for work and am semi retired, with business interests.

It's still good fun and a quarter does the trick.

There was a group here who won 11 of 15 premiership as a core group in the 90's and 00's and they are mostly still around in there 40's, 50's and even 60's and we get together every week of the year, if Monday nights are free to keep the knees and backs moving.

That's my kind of fun.

I'm on 3 weeks holiday, my daughter got married the week before Xmas, Xmas was nice and I don't drink but I'm bored and this gives me something to do and gets me reading other sources for the pleasure of interest.

I guess I run hot and cold like most other posters. I don't mind free thinking disagreeable discussion as long as no #irect punches are thrown. I like stats and research too.

Anyway Shane, Ive probably said too much but I sense I may be appearing insensitive and fat headed, thats not unusual for me, but there's no malice intended.

Thanks for the exchange.

[shanegrambeau]

So the take away points are that at Richmond it a very mixed bag of opinions

On the one hand, a bunch of fans seem to think Jack was disruptive and an entitled pest. The other group recoil and say, leave him alone, and he’s doing better now.

Anyway, it’s quite interesting. Just think, if Jack’s settled he could kick 60 goals. Same perhaps for Membrey. But I can’t see it and I hope I’m wrong..cause I loved the cocky collar episode!!

In 2021, after that loss to Sydney when poor Jack just kicked behind after behind !! Poor bastard.

I’ve bowled an over wides once almost! I’m sure we all have ! (Or maybe not lol)

Anyway, it’s gonna be a hard road. And he is a Saints man. Maybe he can be that Milney of character??

Note to CQ Saint
I don’t personalise my posts as a rule so or attempt to credential myself, but I learned to take a pack mark in my late 20s.

[CQ SAINT]

So the take away points are that at Richmond it a very mixed bag of opinions

On the one hand, a bunch of fans seem to think Jack was disruptive and an entitled pest. The other group recoil and say, leave him alone, and he’s doing better now.

Anyway, it’s quite interesting. Just think, if Jack’s settled he could kick 60 goals. Same perhaps for Membrey. But I can’t see it and I hope I’m wrong..cause I loved the cocky collar episode!!

In 2021, after that loss to Sydney when poor Jack just kicked behind after behind !! Poor bastard.

I’ve bowled an over wides once almost! I’m sure we all have ! (Or maybe not lol)

Anyway, it’s gonna be a hard road. And he is a Saints man. Maybe he can be that Milney of character??

Note to CQ Saint
I don’t personalise my posts as a rule so or attempt to credential myself, but I learned to take a pack mark in my late 20s.

Yes Shane, brilliant work again.