2013-2014 Draft Selections

[B.M]

Were a complete cluster fk

Now the stench of the 2013/14 drafts is finally gone

Pick 3 - Billings traded
Pick 18 - Dunstan delisted
Pick 19 - Acres traded
Pick 1 - McCartin delisted
Pick 21 - H Goddard delisted
Pick 22 - McKenzie delisted
Pick 41 - Lonie delisted

It fkd us for 10 years!!!!

[Banger9798]

The Trout years

[Otiman]

Don't disagree but for their picks, Acres and Dunstan were OK. McKenzie would have been OK if not for injuries.

[skeptic]

It’s a sad state of affairs when I, am amateur armchair quarterback could out recruit the recruiters.

I don’t pay attention to all drafts, just those where we have earlier picks but 2014 I was all over it.

That year I’d have netted us
Petracca
H. Goddard
Touk Millar
Caleb Daniels

The downside is that I pbly would have missed Sinclair in the rookie draft but at the same time… pbly would have deferred to the club at that point.

Whilst obviously this anomaly would mostly have been a fluke… I shouldn’t have been able just read phantom drafts, watch highlight videos, read amateur profiles and done that much better than the paid professionals at the club.

What an amateur outfit that contingent was

[Killa]

The perennial should have subject

Billings - played 150 games before moving to Melbourne We will see what comes next, so another Dunstan or Acres?
Dunstan - played over 100 games before moving to Melbourne where he could not find a regular game then injured
Acres - represented Carlton in the 2023 Finals Series as a key player
Mc Cartin - represented Sydney in a Grand Final as a key player
Goddard - could not get on the park due to injuries
Mc Kenzie - took time but, when fit, was showing signs before injury again interrupted
Lonie - pick 41 so speculative

IF we can get 150 and 100 game players from those Drafted this year plus a couple more play finals and Grand Finals as key players I, for one, will be satisfied

I note there is no mention of Sinclair, Marshall and Wilkie as success stories - all off the Rookie List and now A Grade players in the Competition (not just at St Kilda)

[CQ SAINT]

The perennial should have subject

Billings - played 150 games before moving to Melbourne We will see what comes next, so another Dunstan or Acres?
Dunstan - played over 100 games before moving to Melbourne where he could not find a regular game then injured
Acres - represented Carlton in the 2023 Finals Series as a key player
Mc Cartin - represented Sydney in a Grand Final as a key player
Goddard - could not get on the park due to injuries
Mc Kenzie - took time but, when fit, was showing signs before injury again interrupted
Lonie - pick 41 so speculative

IF we can get 150 and 100 game players from those Drafted this year plus a couple more play finals and Grand Finals as key players I, for one, will be satisfied

I note there is no mention of Sinclair, Marshall and Wilkie as success stories - all off the Rookie List and now A Grade players in the Competition (not just at St Kilda)

If your satisfied from the the return of 13-14 and the 150 games that followed from Billings and Dunstan, then you are easy to please and perhaps a little biased. Acres trade was unnecessary and a little stupid but we did get Hill. He didn't play any finals at Freo though he had a good crack.

But that of course, is your prerogative.

[SaintPav]

Weak as piss giving up Acres like that.

Pathetic dealing considering what was already on the table. Should have told cow bell to f.ck off.

Club obviously didn’t see the potential in Acres at that point.

[Yorkeys]

Weak as piss giving up Acres like that.

Pathetic dealing considering what was already on the table. Should have told cow bell to f.ck off.

Club obviously didn’t see the potential in Acres at that point.

Reinforces my bias that A. Richardson was not a good coach but Longmuir seems ok.
We will never know the full opportunity cost of indulging AR for so long. Stuff to weep over.

[B.M]

What has that got to do with coaching?

They are
Recruiting decisions
List management decisions

[Saintmike65]

Were a complete cluster fk

Now the stench of the 2013/14 drafts is finally gone

Pick 3 - Billings traded
Pick 18 - Dunstan delisted
Pick 19 - Acres traded
Pick 1 - McCartin delisted
Pick 21 - H Goddard delisted
Pick 22 - McKenzie delisted
Pick 41 - Lonie delisted

It fkd us for 10 years!!!!

Yep…the trout years were appalling!

[SaintPav]

Wasn’t that deal done under Ratts?

Coaches do have a say and get involved when it suits them.

[cwrcyn]

Not just 2023 -2014. From a national draft selection perspective, it gets no better after that. As I posted elsewhere, we only have three players aged between 25 and 27 left who were selected in the national draft.

Clark
Paton
Battle

They are from the 2015 to 2017 drafts

Thank goodness some rookie picks came through.

[Life Long Saint]

What has that got to do with coaching?

They are
Recruiting decisions
List management decisions

You can't just walk over player development like that.
How you develop a player that comes onto the list is just as, if not more, important that the selection of the player.
We have butchered player development for years. I wonder how we would have gone with Petracca? I would bet London to a brick that he wouldn't have gone as well with us as he did with Melbourne.
I suspect for too long we focussed on what the player can't do instead of what they can do.

How many of our top line players did we actually recruit and develop?
Sinclair...Given his skills as rated by Champion Data, he should have been a gun much earlier than he was.
Look at our midfield...Crouch, Steele, Marshall, and Jones when fit...All either traded in or picked as mature aged rookies.
Wilke, Wood, Hill, Butler, Higgins, Howard, Membrey, Stocker, and Cordy all traded in or mature aged recruits.
It's only really Ross, Webster, Clarke, and Battle left that are in the mature bracket that have been regular senior players...The rest are still developing.

Just one more point...
Once again, for the people in the back, Jack Billings was a clear top 3 pick in that draft. Every club (including the Bulldogs) would have taken him at 3.
Kudos to the Bulldogs for picking the Bont at pick 4 as a fair dinkum bolter.

[CQ SAINT]

What has that got to do with coaching?

They are
Recruiting decisions
List management decisions

The recruiters recruit.

The coach develops the talent.

[Yorkeys]

What has that got to do with coaching?

They are
Recruiting decisions
List management decisions

Serious? Ok Acres was mediocre until coached by Longmuir and Voss. Only hindsight is calling it a poor decision to let Acres go. Which it has proven to be.

[B.M]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

[B.M]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

[CQ SAINT]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

Id agree that greats like Hayes and Harvey drove their own development, but lets not forget that MOST of these elite players are usually exposed to elite age based development from 14-15 and are identified as special and the coaches develop game and team play around them. These guys drive the game plan.

The majority of kids don't develop the mental approach to preparation until they reach club land.

This is where good coaches set standards, like, we don't tag, we attack and we don't want contested football, let's run the ball relentlessly and play a running rebound and hold possession game.

[Yorkeys]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

Yes, maybe that's it. He got a heck of a reality check being rejected by a poor performing club, I guess. Change of coaching just coincidental.

[CQ SAINT]

Acres put on some excellent performances for St.Kilda but he seems to have toughened up since leaving and found his peak performance fitness.
I think we lacked that. Peak performance training.

[Life Long Saint]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

Id agree that greats like Hayes and Harvey drove their own development, but lets not forget that MOST of these elite players are usually exposed to elite age based development from 14-15 and are identified as special and the coaches develop game and team play around them. These guys drive the game plan.

The majority of kids don't develop the mental approach to preparation until they reach club land.

This is where good coaches set standards, like, we don't tag, we attack and we don't want contested football, let's run the ball relentlessly and play a running rebound and hold possession game.

Harvey and Hayes are dead set exceptions.
They not only took it upon themselves, but set the example for others.
You could mount a case that Harvey was responsible for a lot of the midfield development just by example.
Hayes would have learned a lot from Banger.

Where has the player development been in the years between Lyon's two stints at coaching?
Harvey was an assistant under Lyon previously. He left when we gave Watters the job.
I don't accept for a minute that every draft pick after that time was no good.
18yo boys are still learning the craft and it's a massive step up from playing against other boys to playing against men.
We have been lacking in getting the kids to the next level.

[CQ SAINT]

Acres probably just matured with age?

Players do get better over time

Do you think Lenny Hayes or Robert Harvey would have been any better or worse at a different club?

Most of players development comes from within

Coaches have some impact but really it’s down to the individual player

Id agree that greats like Hayes and Harvey drove their own development, but lets not forget that MOST of these elite players are usually exposed to elite age based development from 14-15 and are identified as special and the coaches develop game and team play around them. These guys drive the game plan.

The majority of kids don't develop the mental approach to preparation until they reach club land.

This is where good coaches set standards, like, we don't tag, we attack and we don't want contested football, let's run the ball relentlessly and play a running rebound and hold possession game.

Harvey and Hayes are dead set exceptions.
They not only took it upon themselves, but set the example for others.
You could mount a case that Harvey was responsible for a lot of the midfield development just by example.
Hayes would have learned a lot from Banger.

Where has the player development been in the years between Lyon's two stints at coaching?
Harvey was an assistant under Lyon previously. He left when we gave Watters the job.
I don't accept for a minute that every draft pick after that time was no good.
18yo boys are still learning the craft and it's a massive step up from playing against other boys to playing against men.
We have been lacking in getting the kids to the next level.

We identified Marshall, Wilkie and Sinclair who all had the traits to push themselves. But we did develop Sinclair and Marshall, even though Richo held them back and put them out of position.

[Saints58]

Not just 2023 -2014. From a national draft selection perspective, it gets no better after that. As I posted elsewhere, we only have three players aged between 25 and 27 left who were selected in the national draft.

Clark
Paton
Battle

They are from the 2015 to 2017 drafts

Thank goodness some rookie picks came through.

I know Battle was offered a 3 year deal and only wonted 2 so he could explore his free agency options.

Next year I think there will be some interest in Dougal, and Battle and if that is the case and we loose both him and Battle we are very think in the KPD only Cordy.

Jury still out on Van es and shoemaker so we might be in big trouble there.

As this draft had a lot of KPP I was a perplexed we didn't pick another one up we already had 3 mids and Henry, Dow I know a lot of people on this site get really excited about mids but KPP are also important so lets hope we can get a experienced one next year before they are resigned or we are in real trouble.

Next year draft is a draft with a lot of mids and not many KPP so we might have missed our chance to get a quality Big.

[Life Long Saint]

We identified Marshall, Wilkie and Sinclair who all had the traits to push themselves. But we did develop Sinclair and Marshall, even though Richo held them back and put them out of position.

Wilke and Marshall were mature aged recruits. Marshall was 21 and had played at North Ballarat in the VFL for two seasons. Wilke was 23 when drafted and overlooked in four National Drafts and was playing in the SANFL.
We, in fact, played Marshall out of position until 2019 when he played predominantly in the ruck.
Sinclair was a fringe player for many years. He's a gun now, but Champion Data rated his skills as elite many years before he was a regular senior player and it wasn't until we moved him to half back that he was able to really use his weapons of decision making and foot skills.
It took Ratten half of the 2020 season to start focussing on what he could do rather than what he couldn't.

[Life Long Saint]

Jury still out on Van es and shoemaker so we might be in big trouble there.

Has the jury even started deliberation?