Forward line dysfunction

[skeptic]

This has been an interesting thing to consider for me.

The hot take is that our forward line as a whole has actually functioned quite a bit worse since Max King has come back from injury… this in itself is quite interesting as King himself has actually been quite good minus Friday night.

The concern that’s emerged as many forumites have pointed out…
He often really doesn’t lead but prefers to play one to one and out body his opponent which he has done with some success.

This presents a few challenges -
1. He’s way way way more dangerous in space when he can rob at the ball. His advantage is in his reach.

2. This strategy tends to be pretty useless when the opposition gets numbers around the contest

3. This presents a real challenge to our marking forward… most notably Caminati and Higgins as the numbers inhibit their ability to lead into space but also result in reinforcing the mentality of bomb it long to a pack.

Caminati is a really interesting one because I’ve been a bit frustrated by his inability to get into the contest in recent weeks but on reflection, I’ve started to wonder…
Both Caminati and Phillipou tended to flourish more in an open forward line leading into space.
They didn’t necessarily win heaps of contests (but they won a few)… rather they’d bring the ball down with their natural competitiveness and willingness to take on their opponents saw them create/capitalise on opportunity

Likewise, the openness of the forward line saw Higgins and Mason Wood exploit their abilities to slip away from opponents, get on the end of a pass and kick goals.

Even Sharman who for all his faults… early on in his career showed a bit of a knack for getting away on the lead and being able to launch at the ball… in his limited opportunities forward, he’s playing as a pack marking forward which isn’t his strength.

In reflecting on it all…
Our forward style/functioning has really drastically changed since King returned.

If you look at style… King is playing a bit like Kosi 09 whereas I think if anything, he’s physique is best suited to emulating a player like Riewoldt who tended to his endurance to move his opponent into a position where Nick could turn the advantage to his favour.

I don’t know what the answer is beyond saying that we know to really work on our both approach moving the ball forward but also how the forwards present…
King
Butler
Higgins
Caminati
Pou
Gresh
Woods
Coops


There’s some fire power there and IMO more than enough to get the job done.

The midfield is copping a lot of flak RE delivery but I’m wondering if we’re really presenting them with adequate options

[nobhead]

This has been an interesting thing to consider for me.

The hot take is that our forward line as a whole has actually functioned quite a bit worse since Max King has come back from injury… this in itself is quite interesting as King himself has actually been quite good minus Friday night.

The concern that’s emerged as many forumites have pointed out…
He often really doesn’t lead but prefers to play one to one and out body his opponent which he has done with some success.

This presents a few challenges -
1. He’s way way way more dangerous in space when he can rob at the ball. His advantage is in his reach.

2. This strategy tends to be pretty useless when the opposition gets numbers around the contest

3. This presents a real challenge to our marking forward… most notably Caminati and Higgins as the numbers inhibit their ability to lead into space but also result in reinforcing the mentality of bomb it long to a pack.

Caminati is a really interesting one because I’ve been a bit frustrated by his inability to get into the contest in recent weeks but on reflection, I’ve started to wonder…
Both Caminati and Phillipou tended to flourish more in an open forward line leading into space.
They didn’t necessarily win heaps of contests (but they won a few)… rather they’d bring the ball down with their natural competitiveness and willingness to take on their opponents saw them create/capitalise on opportunity

Likewise, the openness of the forward line saw Higgins and Mason Wood exploit their abilities to slip away from opponents, get on the end of a pass and kick goals.

Even Sharman who for all his faults… early on in his career showed a bit of a knack for getting away on the lead and being able to launch at the ball… in his limited opportunities forward, he’s playing as a pack marking forward which isn’t his strength.

In reflecting on it all…
Our forward style/functioning has really drastically changed since King returned.

If you look at style… King is playing a bit like Kosi 09 whereas I think if anything, he’s physique is best suited to emulating a player like Riewoldt who tended to his endurance to move his opponent into a position where Nick could turn the advantage to his favour.

I don’t know what the answer is beyond saying that we know to really work on our both approach moving the ball forward but also how the forwards present…
King
Butler
Higgins
Caminati
Pou
Gresh
Woods
Coops


There’s some fire power there and IMO more than enough to get the job done.

The midfield is copping a lot of flak RE delivery but I’m wondering if we’re really presenting them with adequate options

Watch the crows 3rd qtr against pies then compare that to their 1st half .pressure around the ball .
Overlap run
Hitting up short options
Creating space for fwds to lead into.
Not f***** hard .
Got nothing to do with personel .its using your brain and playing smart /unpredictable brand of footy not a slow / lazy, dumb brand .

[Impatient Sainter]

This has been an interesting thing to consider for me.
The hot take is that our forward line as a whole has actually functioned quite a bit worse since Max King has come back from injury… this in itself is quite interesting as King himself has actually been quite good minus Friday night.
The concern that’s emerged as many forumites have pointed out…
He often really doesn’t lead but prefers to play one to one and out body his opponent which he has done with some success.
This presents a few challenges -
1. He’s way way way more dangerous in space when he can rob at the ball. His advantage is in his reach.
2. This strategy tends to be pretty useless when the opposition gets numbers around the contest
3. This presents a real challenge to our marking forward… most notably Caminati and Higgins as the numbers inhibit their ability to lead into space but also result in reinforcing the mentality of bomb it long to a pack.
Caminati is a really interesting one because I’ve been a bit frustrated by his inability to get into the contest in recent weeks but on reflection, I’ve started to wonder…
Both Caminati and Phillipou tended to flourish more in an open forward line leading into space.
They didn’t necessarily win heaps of contests (but they won a few)… rather they’d bring the ball down with their natural competitiveness and willingness to take on their opponents saw them create/capitalise on opportunity
Likewise, the openness of the forward line saw Higgins and Mason Wood exploit their abilities to slip away from opponents, get on the end of a pass and kick goals.
Even Sharman who for all his faults… early on in his career showed a bit of a knack for getting away on the lead and being able to launch at the ball… in his limited opportunities forward, he’s playing as a pack marking forward which isn’t his strength.
In reflecting on it all…
Our forward style/functioning has really drastically changed since King returned.
If you look at style… King is playing a bit like Kosi 09 whereas I think if anything, he’s physique is best suited to emulating a player like Riewoldt who tended to his endurance to move his opponent into a position where Nick could turn the advantage to his favour.
I don’t know what the answer is beyond saying that we know to really work on our both approach moving the ball forward but also how the forwards present…
King
Butler
Higgins
Caminati
Pou
Gresh
Woods
Coops
There’s some fire power there and IMO more than enough to get the job done.
The midfield is copping a lot of flak RE delivery but I’m wondering if we’re really presenting them with adequate options

Watch the crows 3rd qtr against pies then compare that to their 1st half .pressure around the ball .
Overlap run
Hitting up short options
Creating space for fwds to lead into.
Not f***** hard .
Got nothing to do with personel .its using your brain and playing smart /unpredictable brand of footy not a slow / lazy, dumb brand .

The issue is the lack of flow coming from our midfield, wings and flanks (apart from NWM & Sinclair). When was the last time we saw 3 or 4 long link up handballs to set up a midfielder running through the centre square to hit up a leading forward? Not since round 6 its like we have morphed back into the exact same team that played under Ratten & Richardson before him. With Steele really struggling through injuries we simply dont have any real damaging midfield talent...

[Scollop]

Max King's biggest issue is his aerobic fitness

He was gasping for air in the first quarter after a few leads or some bullocking 1-1 against his opponent

Pou, Caminiti and Membrey are much better at getting up the ground and repeat leads

I've seen many talented athletes in different sports go from being average or above average to elite once they got everything right with their aerobic fitness.

Max looks like he's worked a fair bit on his strength side. He probably hasn't focused on his running and swimming and bike riding as much

[longtimesaint]

Having no pre season would account for his lack of aerobic fitness

[shanegrambeau]

Mathew Lloyd said Max is more the pack cruncher and Ben more the lead-into-open-spacer.

They both seem a little spacey TBH

[seano1]

They all seem to be trying to out-mark each other , agree with some of your comments but think if they created the leads and just left the smalls to get maxs dropped marks instead of also sometimes trying to out mark the talls would be handy . Maybe it’s time to give Peris a shot see if he can deliver with his pace

[bigcarl]

I’d prefer King playing further up the ground to be honest.

Would force him to move around a bit more for a start.

Also - given that he will drag a few defenders with him - ought to leave plenty of space out the back for opportunists and a lead-into-space forward.

Plus he’s a better kick from farther out.

One thing for sure, though, long bombs to King with three defenders on him is not an efficient strategy imo.

But our problems go a big deeper than that. Midfield is the major area of concern

[Otiman]

We haven't gelled with King yet.

Having him there is inviting the footy to his space, which is much easier for the opposition defense to read.

I'd be interested in seeing our F50 efficiency with and without King.

[Devilhead]

Replace Dysfunction with Shithousery and you will be closer to the mark

[B.M]

Didn’t King kick 11 in 3 weeks prior to last game?

[Annoyedsaint]

Caminiti looked a foot shorter & 20kg lighter than Andrews. Is he tall enough to play that role for starters?

Obviously needs to get stronger.

Looked very much out of his depth and was completely non-competitive at least 6 times.

I’m sorry, but that’s not good enough if you want to stay in the side.

[Saint 58]

I’d prefer King playing further up the ground to be honest.

Would force him to move around a bit more for a start.

Also - given that he will drag a few defenders with him - ought to leave plenty of space out the back for opportunists and a lead-into-space forward.

Plus he’s a better kick from farther out.

One thing for sure, though, long bombs to King with three defenders on him is not an efficient strategy imo.

But our problems go a big deeper than that. Midfield is the major area of concern

Agree ... King to CHF

[Jacks Back]

We haven't gelled with King yet.

Having him there is inviting the footy to his space, which is much easier for the opposition defense to read.

I'd be interested in seeing our F50 efficiency with and without King.

Kind of like Sydney play better when Buddy isn't there - they're not looking for him all the time.

[Teflon]

Didn’t King kick 11 in 3 weeks prior to last game?

That’s great but it’s not sustainable against top sides
You want multiple avenues
Eggs in 1 basket is dumb
King clearly likes contested marking has an aversion to leading that’s all good as long as we have other options..

[B.M]

Why are the eggs in one basket

We kicked it to both King and Andrews!

[Saint2]

King has to work harder for four quarters and Lyon should run him at CHF, and bring in Cordy to sit at FF. Caminiti is looking like he needs a run at Sandy, and probably Sharman should get a full game on the HFF. Harvey/ Lyon just needs to get more movement and structure in the forward half.

[Yorkeys]

Caminiti looked a foot shorter & 20kg lighter than Andrews. Is he tall enough to play that role for starters?

Obviously needs to get stronger.

Looked very much out of his depth and was completely non-competitive at least 6 times.

I’m sorry, but that’s not good enough if you want to stay in the side.

Was out muscled by Andrews, however I admired his spirit, kept at it, didn't drop his head, later outsmarted Andrews to mark and goal. Plenty of upside to that youngster I feel. Tough apprenticeship, for sure.

[Otiman]

Was out muscled by Andrews, however I admired his spirit, kept at it, didn't drop his head, later outsmarted Andrews to mark and goal. Plenty of upside to that youngster I feel. Tough apprenticeship, for sure.

I agree, think Hammer can hold his head high on that one and learn from it at the same time.

[saintkev]

I’d prefer King playing further up the ground to be honest.

Would force him to move around a bit more for a start.

Also - given that he will drag a few defenders with him - ought to leave plenty of space out the back for opportunists and a lead-into-space forward.



Plus he’s a better kick from farther out.

One thing for sure, though, long bombs to King with three defenders on him is not an efficient strategy imo.

But our problems go a big deeper than that. Midfield is the major area of concern

Agree ... King to CHF

Or to centre-half-back if things are going pear shaped.

[B.M]

CHF???

Who plays there in 2023?!

[bigcarl]

CHF???

Who plays there in 2023?!

Ok Marto, call it higher up the ground or whatever is the current buzzword, but you get the drift. Higher rather than deeper.

[Teflon]

Why are the eggs in one basket

We kicked it to both King and Andrews!

True
And Sicily against Hawks
Coaching instruction you think ?

[B.M]

Coach didn’t do much about it

Considering the group is so ‘coachable!’

Personally
I would have gone

Steele to Andrews - and use Steele at every possibility - see if he sags of a player who can get dangerous and hurt him
Owens into the midfield
Caminiti to interchange- second ruck

[Teflon]

Coach didn’t do much about it

Considering the group is so ‘coachable!’

Personally
I would have gone

Steele to Andrews - and use Steele at every possibility - see if he sags of a player who can get dangerous and hurt him
Owens into the midfield
Caminiti to interchange- second ruck

All excellent decisions ….4 weeks after the game…