What’s with the midfield?

[skeptic]

It feels like it’s been tired or out of sorts since the Carlton game when players game times where managed.

Sinclair has been the standout and pretty spectacular all year

Steele hasn’t been the same since injury

Crouch’s output or perhaps his effectiveness has dropped markedly for three weeks and a great start to the year

Gresh is a bit all over the shop like Crouch

Ross has been good but wasn’t crash hot yesterday

Woods slowed since injury but doing ok

Byrnes is largely the same… runs a lot with fluctuations in his possession count and the damage he does by foot

Clark has been a positive so far.

Paton is all over the place.

Hill has also by and large been very good despite the odd down week.

I don’t know… they seem a bit tired to me. We also don’t seem to be particularly great defensively in terms of opposition mids as the emerging pattern is that opposition mids are topping the stat charts against us with the counter argument being a question of effectiveness vs useless passing around.

Regardless… I’m looking at Bytel and Windhager + to a lesser degree Billings who have been pushing for selection and getting very very little reward for effort and to a degree… at least with the former 2, their actual week to week playing is being effected they’re missing games to play a quarter as the sub.

I think I’d like to see a little more rotation here myself. Certainly if Crouch really does have something going on… I think Bytel for a full game for a week or 2 pbly isn’t going to kill us.

Thoughts?

[IluvHarvey]

Crouch’s output or perhaps his effectiveness has dropped markedly for three weeks and a great start to the year

i don't think it's a coincidence that Crouch's output has dipped since Steele has come back in.
He is spending less time in the Centre bounces which is his bread and butter.

[Sanctorum]

Well may we worry about St Kilda's midfield in recent matches, yet invariably the team has won more clearances than their opposition, which makes me wonder how good the midfield will be when the likes of Crouch, Steele, Clark, Gresham, do get into top form.

I also firmly believe they have erred in not playing Marcus Windhager who's all-round game is so much better than that of Ryan Byrnes.

[nostalgicsaint]

I think after the short break weeks they've used the last few to put a block of training into them.

Ross hinted at it in his presser.

[Teflon]

I think after the short break weeks they've used the last few to put a block of training into them.

Ross hinted at it in his presser.

He wasn’t happy at the presser that’s for sure
The midfield is struggling no question- it’s not about clearances it’s about impact
Numbers for Ross Crouch and Steele yesterday were worryingly low
Steele concerns me most - his drop off from Brownlow fancy (injuries taken into consideration) is alarming
He’s shed kilos but looks a shell of what he was
I think this midfield desperately need an injection of quality - problem is I’m not yet convinced on Windhager or Bytel (but I agree with you that if this is an exploratory year….then play them in blocks to find out).
I am certain Owens is the only other right now with the physical attributes to go in there immediately
So….short term what do you do if you are Ross??
Imo
Keep playing Sinclair mid - find a HBF replacement (Coffield….how far???….could Jimmy Webster do that role interim??)
With King/Caminit/Sharman (new Membrey) up forward play Owens as mid to drift forward
Pick your games ….but I’d rest Crouch or Ross and give Bytel and Windy starting 18 time

[nostalgicsaint]

I think after the short break weeks they've used the last few to put a block of training into them.

Ross hinted at it in his presser.

He wasn’t happy at the presser that’s for sure
The midfield is struggling no question- it’s not about clearances it’s about impact
Numbers for Ross Crouch and Steele yesterday were worryingly low
Steele concerns me most - his drop off from Brownlow fancy (injuries taken into consideration) is alarming
He’s shed kilos but looks a shell of what he was
I think this midfield desperately need an injection of quality - problem is I’m not yet convinced on Windhager or Bytel (but I agree with you that if this is an exploratory year….then play them in blocks to find out).
I am certain Owens is the only other right now with the physical attributes to go in there immediately
So….short term what do you do if you are Ross??
Imo
Keep playing Sinclair mid - find a HBF replacement (Coffield….how far???….could Jimmy Webster do that role interim??)
With King/Caminit/Sharman (new Membrey) up forward play Owens as mid to drift forward
Pick your games ….but I’d rest Crouch or Ross and give Bytel and Windy starting 18 time

I do agree the mids need more support/variety.

Don't think the solution is to drop/rest the blokes you identify.

From my perspective

*Gresham should go out on the back of form not injury. King comes in.
*This allows Owens to spend some time on the ball. (The time Gresham was getting)
*Hunter Clark to get more minutes and centre bounce attendance
*Sinclair to keep his current balance between half back and on ball
*more dangerous/dynamic player as sub- Billings/Gresham


This allows more bench time/forward time for Steele, Crouch, Ross.

Billings or Gresham type player to come on as sub for whichever midfielder is most tired/least impactful.

[shanegrambeau]

I think after the short break weeks they've used the last few to put a block of training into them.

Ross hinted at it in his presser.

He wasn’t happy at the presser that’s for sure
The midfield is struggling no question- it’s not about clearances it’s about impact
Numbers for Ross Crouch and Steele yesterday were worryingly low
Steele concerns me most - his drop off from Brownlow fancy (injuries taken into consideration) is alarming
He’s shed kilos but looks a shell of what he was
I think this midfield desperately need an injection of quality - problem is I’m not yet convinced on Windhager or Bytel (but I agree with you that if this is an exploratory year….then play them in blocks to find out).
I am certain Owens is the only other right now with the physical attributes to go in there immediately
So….short term what do you do if you are Ross??
Imo
Keep playing Sinclair mid - find a HBF replacement (Coffield….how far???….could Jimmy Webster do that role interim??)
With King/Caminit/Sharman (new Membrey) up forward play Owens as mid to drift forward
Pick your games ….but I’d rest Crouch or Ross and give Bytel and Windy starting 18 time

I do agree the mids need more support/variety.

Don't think the solution is to drop/rest the blokes you identify.

From my perspective

*Gresham should go out on the back of form not injury. King comes in.
*This allows Owens to spend some time on the ball. (The time Gresham was getting)
*Hunter Clark to get more minutes and centre bounce attendance
*Sinclair to keep his current balance between half back and on ball
*more dangerous/dynamic player as sub- Billings/Gresham


This allows more bench time/forward time for Steele, Crouch, Ross.

Billings or Gresham type player to come on as sub for whichever midfielder is most tired/least impactful.

If Steele is not doing it offensively, how about these roles?
a) as a forward
b) or tagger
c) or decoy tagged..(i.e. drags a dagger around)

2016
St Kilda Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel Ameet Bains said....

“We’re thrilled to have Jack join the Saints and with his ability to play both in the ^{midfield and forward,} we think he’ll strongly complement our young, emerging list while filling a key need,” Bains said.

[Banger9798]

We need Michito in there

[nostalgicsaint]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Agree in the future he will be a key cog of our midfield though.

[nostalgicsaint]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Agree in the future he will be a key cog of our midfield though.

[123]

Re Steele's performance, I can't believe how steele only took 3 weeks to recover from a clavicle break. Considering he puts his body on the line with tackling. I've broken my clavicle 3 times and it takes 6 weeks to heal the break. Then you need a few weeks of rehab! I just don't get it. Is this normal?

[meher baba]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Moving players from where they are doing well to another part of the ground is something of an obsession with many posters: Sinclair and Owens to the midfield, Marshall to the forward line, Gresham out of the midfield and playing him purely as a goal sneak, Battle to the forward line, Membrey to the backline.

Thankfully the coaching staff are generally less keen about these ideas than arecfans.

Midfielders can take a while to develop the fitness to play midfield and can therefore add pens some of their early career on the half back line. And talk wingers and ruckmen can sometimes develop into half or full forwards.

But, on the whole, moving a player who is doing well in one position to another position is a sign of weakness and desperation: eg, our AA halfback Sinclair playing increasingly in the middle this season. Halfback will always be Sinclair’s best position IMO, but, as was the case in the backend of 2022, our midfield is struggling against teams that have the strike power to keep running straight through it. So Lyon and Lenny are using Sinclair as a stopgap. But I believe it weakens our run out of defence.

Like many, I’d prefer to see Windhager in there, but he doesn’t seem to be firing on all cylinders right now. I don’t think his hand injury has helped him at all. I hope he has a big game in thr VFL on Sunday and forces his way back in. To me he is a big part of the long-term solution. Not Sinclair and (although I seem to be in a minority among fans on this) probably not Bytel.

[ace]

Don't worry about Crouch.
He will want to stick it right up Nicks for releasing that you can go (which he did) video.

[SaintPav]

Re Steele's performance, I can't believe how steele only took 3 weeks to recover from a clavicle break. Considering he puts his body on the line with tackling. I've broken my clavicle 3 times and it takes 6 weeks to heal the break. Then you need a few weeks of rehab! I just don't get it. Is this normal?

No.

He’s a freak.

[Teflon]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Agree in the future he will be a key cog of our midfield though.

You play players where they have greatest impact
Owens wasn’t targeted as a specialist forward- we had a need he went there to support the need
He was always earmarked as that tall bull mid we desperately lack
Just because he’s done well there…doesn’t mean he can’t be moved or that’s it….his papers are now stamped as a forward
I understand (not you) but some posters struggle with that concept
Lucky the coaching staff don’t hence you are seeing more of Sinclair round the ball
Greatest impact

[Impatient Sainter]

If you look at this years stats we are really struggling in hitouts and clearances. Its a combination of Marshall being a poor tap ruckman and our mids struggling to read the ball off the opposition ruckman. Something Ive noticed in the past weeks is all our mids are completely flat footed at clearances and consequently slow to react. The Port game really highlighted how poor our clearance work had become, they constantly just marched the ball out. The other issue is the quality of the clearances the opposition are having compared to ours - there is a huge disparity. I think you will find that is why RTB has been guarded in responding to questions regarding Marshalls games, he is not happy with his rucking.

[nostalgicsaint]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Agree in the future he will be a key cog of our midfield though.

You play players where they have greatest impact
Owens wasn’t targeted as a specialist forward- we had a need he went there to support the need
He was always earmarked as that tall bull mid we desperately lack
Just because he’s done well there…doesn’t mean he can’t be moved or that’s it….his papers are now stamped as a forward
I understand (not you) but some posters struggle with that concept
Lucky the coaching staff don’t hence you are seeing more of Sinclair round the ball
Greatest impact

100% agree he will be that bull mid who goes forward in the long run.

I dont necessarily agree he will drive more impact at this stage of his career as a mid than he is currently as a forward and relief ruck.

As we've seen his current impact is outrageous and in the short term I'd be reluctant to mess with that to find an extra 5% improvement in our midfield.

[Teflon]

We need Michito in there

He is in there as a Josh dunkley style second ruckman.

I.dont understand why everyone wants to move him from the positions he is playing right now- he is dominating.

Agree in the future he will be a key cog of our midfield though.

You play players where they have greatest impact
Owens wasn’t targeted as a specialist forward- we had a need he went there to support the need
He was always earmarked as that tall bull mid we desperately lack
Just because he’s done well there…doesn’t mean he can’t be moved or that’s it….his papers are now stamped as a forward
I understand (not you) but some posters struggle with that concept
Lucky the coaching staff don’t hence you are seeing more of Sinclair round the ball
Greatest impact

100% agree he will be that bull mid who goes forward in the long run.

I dont necessarily agree he will drive more impact at this stage of his career as a mid than he is currently as a forward and relief ruck.

As we've seen his current impact is outrageous and in the short term I'd be reluctant to mess with that to find an extra 5% improvement in our midfield.

I’m not sure on that
I watched him in there at times against Nth and he was the only one who looked like effecting a clearance our way ..
His competitive ability is a standout
Anyway time will tell but we won’t be genuinely top 4 or flag chance imo till that midfield gets some genuine class/X factor

[Jacks Back]

I think you will find that is why RTB has been guarded in responding to questions regarding Marshalls games, he is not happy with his rucking.

Then why not play Campbell who is a better tap ruckman? The answer would be that he won't do much around the ground. I still think a better ruckman than Marshall would help with the clearances.

[Jacks Back]

If Steele is not doing it offensively, how about these roles?
a) as a forward
b) or tagger
c) or decoy tagged..(i.e. drags a dagger around)

I think the umpires would check for that sort of thing before the game - but he could stash one in his trunks (if he were a wrestler)

[Scollop]

Don't worry about Crouch.
He will want to stick it right up Nicks for releasing that you can go (which he did) video.

Good point. I'm sure he does but...

Would have been better to rest him last week and let him come in fresh for this game. It's not like he was in ripping hot form for the last 3 weeks

It's not like he is 23 years of age or a robot. Manage the team ffs. This is not 1997.

The game has changed and there's a lot more running required. Utilise your whole list for the benefit of St Kilda FC.

It would've been beneficial to the team as a whole to mix it up and give Windy or Bytel or Billings a game.

What is the purpose of letting Crouch play every single week for 22 Rounds of Home and Away other than to prop up his payments and his bonus.

Same with a few others. If we start playing favourites we segregate the list (best 22 is archaic and outdated thinking). It's going to bite us in the medium to long term term. In the short term it means you are burning them out and not getting peak performance from certain players.

[Yorkeys]

Don't worry about Crouch.
He will want to stick it right up Nicks for releasing that you can go (which he did) video.

Good point. I'm sure he does but...

Would have been better to rest him last week and let him come in fresh for this game. It's not like he was in ripping hot form for the last 3 weeks

It's not like he is 23 years of age or a robot. Manage the team ffs. This is not 1997.

The game has changed and there's a lot more running required. Utilise your whole list for the benefit of St Kilda FC.

It would've been beneficial to the team as a whole to mix it up and give Windy or Bytel or Billings a game.

What is the purpose of letting Crouch play every single week for 22 Rounds of Home and Away other than to prop up his payments and his bonus.

Same with a few others. If we start playing favourites we segregate the list (best 22 is archaic and outdated thinking). It's going to bite us in the medium to long term term. In the short term it means you are burning them out and not getting peak performance from certain players.

Or just respect the judgement of the highly qualified people employed to coach and manage fitness.

[Scollop]

Don't worry about Crouch.
He will want to stick it right up Nicks for releasing that you can go (which he did) video.

Good point. I'm sure he does but...

Would have been better to rest him last week and let him come in fresh for this game. It's not like he was in ripping hot form for the last 3 weeks

It's not like he is 23 years of age or a robot. Manage the team ffs. This is not 1997.

The game has changed and there's a lot more running required. Utilise your whole list for the benefit of St Kilda FC.

It would've been beneficial to the team as a whole to mix it up and give Windy or Bytel or Billings a game.

What is the purpose of letting Crouch play every single week for 22 Rounds of Home and Away other than to prop up his payments and his bonus.

Same with a few others. If we start playing favourites we segregate the list (best 22 is archaic and outdated thinking). It's going to bite us in the medium to long term term. In the short term it means you are burning them out and not getting peak performance from certain players.

Or just respect the judgement of the highly qualified people employed to coach and manage fitness.

wtf? If RTB asks; "Is Bradley right to go?" and they give the nod, then...they don't pick the team do they Yorkeys?

If match committee has preconceived ideas about 'best 22' then that's what I'm complaining about

[takeaway]

Don't worry about Crouch.
He will want to stick it right up Nicks for releasing that you can go (which he did) video.

Good point. I'm sure he does but...

Would have been better to rest him last week and let him come in fresh for this game. It's not like he was in ripping hot form for the last 3 weeks

It's not like he is 23 years of age or a robot. Manage the team ffs. This is not 1997.

The game has changed and there's a lot more running required. Utilise your whole list for the benefit of St Kilda FC.

It would've been beneficial to the team as a whole to mix it up and give Windy or Bytel or Billings a game.

What is the purpose of letting Crouch play every single week for 22 Rounds of Home and Away other than to prop up his payments and his bonus.

Same with a few others. If we start playing favourites we segregate the list (best 22 is archaic and outdated thinking). It's going to bite us in the medium to long term term. In the short term it means you are burning them out and not getting peak performance from certain players.

Or just respect the judgement of the highly qualified people employed to coach and manage fitness.

wtf? If RTB asks; "Is Bradley right to go?" and they give the nod, then...they don't pick the team do they Yorkeys?

If match committee has preconceived ideas about 'best 22' then that's what I'm complaining about

Doubt whether any of the core players are even mentioned at selection, except if they have a niggle or two. I'd give Brad a break round 12.

[B.M]

We’re doing it again