Milestones

[CQ SAINT]

12 wins in one of those seasons


Not sure if he was our best player and we performed poorly - it was his fault?

Flawed logic

More likely it was those who were our worst players at that time who were more to blame?

Question
How did you rate Jack Steven?

I think Seb because he was there, he was our best player - he has become a symbol of mediocrity. And his achievements down played.

I think that’s a ridiculous notion. Players perform or not
In that era not enough performed - Seb was one of the few that did

I did not rate Jack Steven. He was lazy, stupid and distracted.

Lazy, stupid and distracted enough to win 4 Trevor Barker medals. Gee, he might have been able to play a bit if it weren't for him being lazy, stupid and dumb.

I'll judge him on his whole career and rate him accordingly. He started out like a house on fire and just turned 32.

[B.M]

Who started out like a house on fire?

Jack didn’t play much in his first 3 years

2013 was his breakout year at 23yo

[CQ SAINT]

Who started out like a house on fire?

Jack didn’t play much in his first 3 years

2013 was his breakout year at 23yo

The moment Ross was out of the picture, he broke into the team. The bulls*** started in 2011 and just got worse from their.

He and Ross dominated the award in one of the clubs darkest eras and we couldnt give the awards to blokes who we where retiring or trading. He was put on a pedestal and s*** on us.

Like I said, I'll judge his career on a whole and and I'm not a fan. Wasted talent.

[Vortex]

Who started out like a house on fire?

Jack didn’t play much in his first 3 years

2013 was his breakout year at 23yo

The moment Ross was out of the picture, he broke into the team. The bulls*** started in 2011 and just got worse from their.

He and Ross dominated the award in one of the clubs darkest eras and we couldnt give the awards to blokes who we where retiring or trading. He was put on a pedestal and s*** on us.

Like I said, I'll judge his career on a whole and and I'm not a fan. Wasted talent.

Do you recon tbey should put an asterisk next to Jack's name on the TB Honour board?

[CQ SAINT]

Who started out like a house on fire?

Jack didn’t play much in his first 3 years

2013 was his breakout year at 23yo

The moment Ross was out of the picture, he broke into the team. The bulls*** started in 2011 and just got worse from their.

He and Ross dominated the award in one of the clubs darkest eras and we couldnt give the awards to blokes who we where retiring or trading. He was put on a pedestal and s*** on us.

Like I said, I'll judge his career on a whole and and I'm not a fan. Wasted talent.

Do you recon tbey should put an asterisk next to Jack's name on the TB Honour board?

I dont think Im likely to recon that. No.

[B.M]

Darkest eras?

Did you support StK during the 80s???

I don’t get the whole - you won a B&F in a poor season so it doesn’t count.

To win a B&F you still need to play well, against good opposition, who are regularly beating up on you - so it’s against the odds.

If you’ve played footy, you’d know how hard it is to get a kick when you’re getting pumped. You don’t have the luxury of quality team mates giving you quality ball.

Ask yourself if the following players were no good, because they were good in a bad team?

T.Barker - B&F in 77 & 81
G.Burns - B&F in 84 & 86
D.Frawley - B&F in 88
A.Thompson - B&F in 2000

Still got to be a great player to win a B&F in League footy - regardless

Jack Steven won 4

Was he as good as Lenny Hayes who won 3 or NDS who won none - no
But doesn’t diminish the fact he won 4 and will go down as a club great!

[Vortex]

Who started out like a house on fire?

Jack didn’t play much in his first 3 years

2013 was his breakout year at 23yo

The moment Ross was out of the picture, he broke into the team. The bulls*** started in 2011 and just got worse from their.

He and Ross dominated the award in one of the clubs darkest eras and we couldnt give the awards to blokes who we where retiring or trading. He was put on a pedestal and s*** on us.

Like I said, I'll judge his career on a whole and and I'm not a fan. Wasted talent.

Do you recon tbey should put an asterisk next to Jack's name on the TB Honour board?

I dont think Im likely to recon that. No.

Just a silent asterisk then, yeah agree, better to think it than make it official.

[The_Dud]

Darkest eras?

I don’t get the whole - you won a B&F in a poor season so it doesn’t count.

To win a B&F you still need to play well, against good opposition, who are regularly beating up on you - so it’s against the odds.

Um, no you don't.

You just have to play better than your teammates. You could literally be the 23rd best player on the ground that day and get maximum votes in the B&F.

It's like saying in school the smartest 3rd grader knows as much as the smartest 12th grader.

B&Fs are an extremely subjective award. Good job if you get one, but trying to pretend all B&Fs (or seasons) are equal is ridiculous.

[CQ SAINT]

Darkest eras?

Did you support StK during the 80s???

I don’t get the whole - you won a B&F in a poor season so it doesn’t count.

To win a B&F you still need to play well, against good opposition, who are regularly beating up on you - so it’s against the odds.

If you’ve played footy, you’d know how hard it is to get a kick when you’re getting pumped. You don’t have the luxury of quality team mates giving you quality ball.

Ask yourself if the following players were no good, because they were good in a bad team?

T.Barker - B&F in 77 & 81
G.Burns - B&F in 84 & 86
D.Frawley - B&F in 88
A.Thompson - B&F in 2000

Still got to be a great player to win a B&F in League footy - regardless

Jack Steven won 4

Was he as good as Lenny Hayes who won 3 or NDS who won none - no
But doesn’t diminish the fact he won 4 and will go down as a club great!

You ask yourself. I've studied a theory and I'm quite happy with it. He was a flash in pan, in dark era. If he is a club great, then its a great travesty.

[CQ SAINT]

One flag and all of a sudden we have club greats coming out of our ass from every era.

[Teflon]

One flag and all of a sudden we have club greats coming out of our ass from every era.

I tried to make this point recently on here and was howled down by SS pc cronies and cliched experts…
If it goes for Jack Steven it goes for Seb Ross
Both good ish/ok players on their days
Won B&Fs when we as a club were hardly starring!!
FFS it’s a very subjective measure
The rubbish put up by so called experts on this site astounds
And I’m no expert…

[Teflon]

Darkest eras?

I don’t get the whole - you won a B&F in a poor season so it doesn’t count.

To win a B&F you still need to play well, against good opposition, who are regularly beating up on you - so it’s against the odds.

Um, no you don't.

You just have to play better than your teammates. You could literally be the 23rd best player on the ground that day and get maximum votes in the B&F.

It's like saying in school the smartest 3rd grader knows as much as the smartest 12th grader.

B&Fs are an extremely subjective award. Good job if you get one, but trying to pretend all B&Fs (or seasons) are equal is ridiculous.

Hallelujah!!!
Someone else gets it!!!

[B.M]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

[CQ SAINT]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

[Teflon]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

It isn’t worth it CQ
Lol now we compare Ross to Nathan Burke?
Off the back of a subjective BnF win ??
Geezus heard it all now ….
Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow …..must be better player than Lenny Hayes ??
Just batshyte dumb stuff honestly and so simplistic
Stop grossly overrating players cause they’re Saints, take off the blinkers and take a good look at their standing in the context of the entire AFL …the real measure…
Ross, Steven etc = good solid players on their day
Ross would not get a gig in Cats 2022 midfield
It’s rubbish

[saynta]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

It isn’t worth it CQ
Lol now we compare Ross to Nathan Burke?
Off the back of a subjective BnF win ??
Geezus heard it all now ….
Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow …..must be better player than Lenny Hayes ??
Just batshyte dumb stuff honestly and so simplistic
Stop grossly overrating players cause they’re Saints, take off the blinkers and take a good look at their standing in the context of the entire AFL …the real measure…
Ross, Steven etc = good solid players on their day
Ross would not get a gig in Cats 2022 midfield
It’s rubbish

As B M has already stated, of course Seb would get a game with Geelong ...and 16 other AFL clubs as well.

Who said ignorance was bliss?

[Yorkeys]

“Clearly a lot of thought went into it,” Scott said after the match.
“If you look at St Kilda, Jack Steven is such a damaging player. He gets the ball and kicks goals.
“(But) we think on balance that Seb Ross is an extremely underrated player in the competition. He’s slipped under the radar and he accumulates the ball and links St Kilda up really well.
“With the style of footy they play, we just felt he was crucial to that.” (Foxnews)

"Ross played his 50th AFL game at 23 years of age in Round 14, 2016 against Geelong at Etihad Stadium and was able to celebrate his milestone in fine style with St Kilda recording an upset three point victory and Ross playing a pivotal role in the victory despite being opposed to the most dominant player of 2016 and eventual Brownlow Medallist Patrick Dangerfield. Ross had a game-high 33 disposals and a team-high 12 contested possessions whilst still performing well defensively on Dangerfield. Whilst Dangerfield had 29 disposals only 12 of these were kicks and he wasn’t as damaging as usual. Ross was rewarded for his exceptional game with three Brownlow Medal votes," (Milestones and Misses)

"In Maddie’s match 2017 St Kilda played their best football of the season to defeat Richmond by 67 points in their Round 16 game. The Saints led by four goals at quarter-time and put the result beyond doubt with nine goals to none in the second quarter to lead by 82 points at half-time. Ross shut-down the best player of 2017 – Richmond midfielder Dustin Martin, restricting him to 19 disposals, the second and last time of 2017 that Martin had less than 20 disposals in a game. Ross still had a significant impact offensively, having an equal game-high 18 kicks, 15 handballs, four marks, eight tackles, five inside 50s, five clearances, two goal assists, 10 score involvements and kicked a goal. The umpires awarded Ross the three Brownlow Medal votes for being best afield and the coaches agreed with this assessment awarding him the maximum 10 votes in the AFL Coaches Association Player of the Year Award." (Milestones and Misses).

Let s/he who has better write ups cast the first stone....

[Teflon]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

It isn’t worth it CQ
Lol now we compare Ross to Nathan Burke?
Off the back of a subjective BnF win ??
Geezus heard it all now ….
Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow …..must be better player than Lenny Hayes ??
Just batshyte dumb stuff honestly and so simplistic
Stop grossly overrating players cause they’re Saints, take off the blinkers and take a good look at their standing in the context of the entire AFL …the real measure…
Ross, Steven etc = good solid players on their day
Ross would not get a gig in Cats 2022 midfield
It’s rubbish

As B M has already stated, of course Seb would get a game with Geelong ...and 16 other AFL clubs as well.

Who said ignorance was bliss?

Oh cause your boss said so?
Get your own opinion FFS it’s embarrassing
Ross in Geelongs midfield????? That’s what you’re saying ??
Do u have a clue?

[CQ SAINT]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

It isn’t worth it CQ
Lol now we compare Ross to Nathan Burke?
Off the back of a subjective BnF win ??
Geezus heard it all now ….
Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow …..must be better player than Lenny Hayes ??
Just batshyte dumb stuff honestly and so simplistic
Stop grossly overrating players cause they’re Saints, take off the blinkers and take a good look at their standing in the context of the entire AFL …the real measure…
Ross, Steven etc = good solid players on their day
Ross would not get a gig in Cats 2022 midfield
It’s rubbish

As B M has already stated, of course Seb would get a game with Geelong ...and 16 other AFL clubs as well.

Who said ignorance was bliss?

The point is not the value of Seb or Jack, it's the value of Trevor Barker Medal. Summon visions of Trevor Barker and then picture Jack Steven in a Geelong jumper. His 4 TB's didn't help him at Geelong.
Seb never left, always gave his all, earned his TBA's and honoured them with commitment, has been challenged by several coaches and outlasted them all.
I'm not sure he'd demand the same respect and position at Geelong but he is worth so much more to us.

[saynta]

“Clearly a lot of thought went into it,” Scott said after the match.
“If you look at St Kilda, Jack Steven is such a damaging player. He gets the ball and kicks goals.
“(But) we think on balance that Seb Ross is an extremely underrated player in the competition. He’s slipped under the radar and he accumulates the ball and links St Kilda up really well.
“With the style of footy they play, we just felt he was crucial to that.” (Foxnews)

"Ross played his 50th AFL game at 23 years of age in Round 14, 2016 against Geelong at Etihad Stadium and was able to celebrate his milestone in fine style with St Kilda recording an upset three point victory and Ross playing a pivotal role in the victory despite being opposed to the most dominant player of 2016 and eventual Brownlow Medallist Patrick Dangerfield. Ross had a game-high 33 disposals and a team-high 12 contested possessions whilst still performing well defensively on Dangerfield. Whilst Dangerfield had 29 disposals only 12 of these were kicks and he wasn’t as damaging as usual. Ross was rewarded for his exceptional game with three Brownlow Medal votes," (Milestones and Misses)

"In Maddie’s match 2017 St Kilda played their best football of the season to defeat Richmond by 67 points in their Round 16 game. The Saints led by four goals at quarter-time and put the result beyond doubt with nine goals to none in the second quarter to lead by 82 points at half-time. Ross shut-down the best player of 2017 – Richmond midfielder Dustin Martin, restricting him to 19 disposals, the second and last time of 2017 that Martin had less than 20 disposals in a game. Ross still had a significant impact offensively, having an equal game-high 18 kicks, 15 handballs, four marks, eight tackles, five inside 50s, five clearances, two goal assists, 10 score involvements and kicked a goal. The umpires awarded Ross the three Brownlow Medal votes for being best afield and the coaches agreed with this assessment awarding him the maximum 10 votes in the AFL Coaches Association Player of the Year Award." (Milestones and Misses).

Let s/he who has better write ups cast the first stone....

[saynta]

What rubbish

If 22 players of one team play better than any of the players from the other team - the score would be 300-0

Never going to happen in a game of league footy!

Even in a 15 goal hiding there will be some players in the losing team who play well, and some in the winning team that don’t

Nathan Burke won his B&Fs in 93, 96 & 99 - do we discount them?

It seems the experts on here know more than experts in the industry who are paid good money to make judgements.

I’ll go with actual experts - of ignorant fans

Look forward to his induction as a club legend.

It isn’t worth it CQ
Lol now we compare Ross to Nathan Burke?
Off the back of a subjective BnF win ??
Geezus heard it all now ….
Shane Woewodin won a Brownlow …..must be better player than Lenny Hayes ??
Just batshyte dumb stuff honestly and so simplistic
Stop grossly overrating players cause they’re Saints, take off the blinkers and take a good look at their standing in the context of the entire AFL …the real measure…
Ross, Steven etc = good solid players on their day
Ross would not get a gig in Cats 2022 midfield
It’s rubbish

As B M has already stated, of course Seb would get a game with Geelong ...and 16 other AFL clubs as well.

Who said ignorance was bliss?

Oh cause your boss said so?
Get your own opinion FFS it’s embarrassing
Ross in Geelongs midfield????? That’s what you’re saying ??
Do u have a clue?

More insults. Can't help yourself can you?

[Scollop]

Saints team is not finals worthy & hovers at bottom of the ladder in a crap era for the club...any player that wins a Best and Fairest...is not that good...AND not as worthy as his peers

Even if that player has multiple Best and Fairest awards

Therefore, if we flip that around, logically...

Champion Saints Team in an era where we are flag worthy...PLUS we are dominant in home and away...so any coach that can't get his troops over the line...Is not as worthy as his peers

Especially when that Team has played in multiple GF's

However...that won't wash for those criticising players like Ross and Steven if it doesn't suit the narrative (And ...especially if they are fanboys of RTB )

[B.M]

What has team success got to do with individual greatness?

Bob Stilton
Robert Flower
Matthew Richardson

All in poor team era

All club and AFL champions


I could name plenty of multiple premiership players who were no more than GOPs

[CQ SAINT]

Saints team is not finals worthy & hovers at bottom of the ladder in a crap era for the club...any player that wins a Best and Fairest...is not that good...AND not as worthy as his peers

Even if that player has multiple Best and Fairest awards

Therefore, if we flip that around, logically...

Champion Saints Team in an era where we are flag worthy...PLUS we are dominant in home and away...so any coach that can't get his troops over the line...Is not as worthy as his peers

Especially when that Team has played in multiple GF's

However...that won't wash for those criticising players like Ross and Steven if it doesn't suit the narrative (And ...especially if they are fanboys of RTB )

That's not on my agenda. Ross is a great servant of the club. Steven, was a good player, very talented, gifted. But he served himself.

[Teflon]

Saints team is not finals worthy & hovers at bottom of the ladder in a crap era for the club...any player that wins a Best and Fairest...is not that good...AND not as worthy as his peers

Even if that player has multiple Best and Fairest awards

Therefore, if we flip that around, logically...

Champion Saints Team in an era where we are flag worthy...PLUS we are dominant in home and away...so any coach that can't get his troops over the line...Is not as worthy as his peers

Especially when that Team has played in multiple GF's

However...that won't wash for those criticising players like Ross and Steven if it doesn't suit the narrative (And ...especially if they are fanboys of RTB )

That's not on my agenda. Ross is a great servant of the club. Steven, was a good player, very talented, gifted. But he served himself.

Gee it’s tiring agree CQ
Ofcourse Ross is a great servant …to a degree Steven too
Point is BnF doesn’t make them elite when you consider their standing AFL wide….
Both GOOD SERVANTS not stars
That’s just an objective fact
The only one’s fanboying are those that think anyone who pulls on a Saints jumper would walk into other top side’s midfield…
That’s utter rot abd most objective footy fans don’t rave over Ross…
Is he if value to us now? Yes
Do I hope he’s pushed out by a player with greater skill/upside ? Ken Oath I do