Ratts v Richo

[Yorkeys]

We are about to get a real time comparison of what each thinks the consequences should be after performances they have described as unacceptable and which are demonstrably unacceptable. Richo did nothing, really, other than tut tut. I expect Ratts to drop Hill, Wood, Lonie, Butler, McKernan, and if not injured Jones. Crouch gets a first game pass. Clark and Coffield to get rockets. Dunstan and Bytel have to come in, as others have said. Probably Hunter as well & Jimmy Webster not sure what other 3: perhaps Marshall, Kent, Highmore. Battle has gone down in fans estimations but he may have a problem. The club sure has a major crisis on its hand and fumbling and not running cant be cured by any vaccine. I hope Ratts has the cure. That was so appalling I found myself laughing manically.

[thejiggingsaint]

We are about to get a real time comparison of what each thinks the consequences should be after performances they have described as unacceptable and which are demonstrably unacceptable. Richo did nothing, really, other than tut tut. I expect Ratts to drop Hill, Wood, Lonie, Butler, McKernan, and if not injured Jones. Crouch gets a first game pass. Clark and Coffield to get rockets. Dunstan and Bytel have to come in, as others have said. Probably Hunter as well & Jimmy Webster not sure what other 3: perhaps Marshall, Kent, Highmore. Battle has gone down in fans estimations but he may have a problem. The club sure has a major crisis on its hand and fumbling and not running cant be cured by any vaccine. I hope Ratts has the cure. That was so appalling I found myself laughing manically.

An interesting scenario there, colleague! I certainly think, like your good self, that the axe has to be wielded at the selection desk this week. Whether Ratts will be bold enough to omit the SIX players you've named, remains to be seen. I'm not so sure, but I agree with your sentiments 100000000000000000000000000000000000000% Look, with Kennedy, Darling, Nic Nat & Co as our opponents, the prospects of a "statement victory" for the Saints are slim at best, so what the hell?! Lets ring the changes and be BOLD! What's to lose?

GO SAINTS!!!!

[B.M]

You know my thoughts on the importance of Coaches!

[WellardSaint]

Drop those six- some would say that's excessive, you're over the top, etc.
But let me take a leaf out of tony74's book, and trot out yet another over-used cliche

'short-term pain for long term gain'.

Tony74 reckons the players' pride has been stung and they'll respond.
No they won't, because they played a lot worse than the previous week.
Against one of the best teams in the comp, they'll submit meekly and get done by 100+

Ratts n Co need to make a statement, and I mean not just empty words.
Drop the lazy ones.
They're guaranteed to lose whether they drop none or 6.

Drop 6, and it shows the club won't let them get away with it.

Sends a message to the entire squad.
Bring your A-game or you get dropped to the B Team.

'Short term pain' etc

[B.M]

You drop 6 (with 2 injured that’s 8)

Who is replacing a third of the team? Seconds players??

[Vortex]

Cuddles is all about "connection", I'm a fan of Ratts but is this the start of Ratts coaching being bought into question. Prior to our past 2 games I had previously mused about the "connection" culture and if it's capable of success.

Cuddles are nice when you are in love but love can be fickle in AFL land.

[saintkev]

You drop 6 (with 2 injured that’s 8)

Who is replacing a third of the team? Seconds players??

Anyone from the twos with the right attitude. Persevering with selfish, lazy, overpaid, cloggers
only perpetuates the club’s ills.

[WellardSaint]

Cuddles is all about "connection", I'm a fan of Ratts but is this the start of Ratts coaching being bought into question. Prior to our past 2 games I had previously mused about the "connection" culture and if it's capable of success.

Cuddles are nice when you are in love but love can be fickle in AFL land.

I watched that rubbish on Ch9 last night, Footy Classified, Treloar said Bevo can put his arm around ya like a father figure, ask how's life, etc, and he can also put on his coach hat and give u a kick up the bum if needed.

Ratts starting to sound like Richo 2.0.

Getting annoying now

[Vortex]

Cuddles is all about "connection", I'm a fan of Ratts but is this the start of Ratts coaching being bought into question. Prior to our past 2 games I had previously mused about the "connection" culture and if it's capable of success.

Cuddles are nice when you are in love but love can be fickle in AFL land.

I watched that rubbish on Ch9 last night, Footy Classified, Treloar said Bevo can put his arm around ya like a father figure, ask how's life, etc, and he can also put on his coach hat and give u a kick up the bum if needed.

Ratts starting to sound like Richo 2.0.

Getting annoying now

Ok so let's remember round 3 of season 2021. Potentially the beginning of the end.

[samuraisaint]

What some posters are suggesting will do nothing more than gift the opposition a 150 point victory.

You can't just 'play the kids' or 'play the guys we picked up if we get injuries' at the expense of our best players or best 22. We will get absolutely bent over if they do that.

We need our best 22 picked each week and those guys need to go into the matches with the right attitude. If you're on good coin you need to perform.

If they're injured they need to be rested, that's a different story altogether.

[thejiggingsaint]

What some posters are suggesting will do nothing more than gift the opposition a 150 point victory.

You can't just 'play the kids' or 'play the guys we picked up if we get injuries' at the expense of our best players or best 22. We will get absolutely bent over if they do that.

We need our best 22 picked each week and those guys need to go into the matches with the right attitude. If you're on good coin you need to perform.

If they're injured they need to be rested, that's a different story altogether.

Agree to disagree with you there colleague. if our "best 22" gave us what we've seen these past two matches......... then they're not our best 22! This is a results-driven code, if the coach lets this pass off without any accountability, then we are indeed CACTUS!

[flack]

Hands up all those who aren't injured and are prepared to put in EFFORT? OK you've got a game. Now the coach only has to worry about playing to their strengths, not a big problem really. It's just a matter of attitude really and a lot of players had an attitude problem on Saturday. No respect for the supporters, no respect for the coach and no respect for themselves. If a tradie came to my place and put that attitude and lack of effort onto the job he wouldn't be getting paid.

[desertsaint]

Hands up all those who aren't injured and are prepared to put in EFFORT? OK you've got a game. Now the coach only has to worry about playing to their strengths, not a big problem really. It's just a matter of attitude really and a lot of players had an attitude problem on Saturday. No respect for the supporters, no respect for the coach and no respect for themselves. If a tradie came to my place and put that attitude and lack of effort onto the job he wouldn't be getting paid.

certainly wouldn't call him back for another job next weekend with a request of 'try harder please'

[Wayne42]

I wonder if Richo finds it pleasing that the Saints aren't much better post his tenure.

[Yorkeys]

Isn't there a lay person's definition of insanity that suggests doing same same same same and expecting different result is a little odd? What can change other than playing group dynamics by substituting individuals until the mix improves. We are decimated by injuries but a significant proportion of the team don't cut it right now. Saying Hill has elite skills doesn't seem to have translated into him displaying them. What's the cardinal rule of assessing an asset (its not past performance, its future earnings). And let fringe players settle. (Free tip Ratts, Richo would not listen, McKenzie can play but not on nippy forwards see: Betts, Cameron, McDonald-Tippanwudi...stop destroying his confidence.)

[thejiggingsaint]

I wonder if Richo finds it pleasing that the Saints aren't much better post his tenure.

Hmmmmmm? and Melbourne (with Richo in the coaches box) played HOW MANY finals games last season? Hmmmmm? and how many finals games did the Saints (post-Richo) play last season? TWO wins at Adelaide Oval! First finals since 2011
Yes, the last two games were a disgrace, but to say we

"aren't much better post his tenure" is simply not true!

[Wayne42]

We'll know more after the Eagles game, so will Richo.

I reckon he'll be watching how we are going.

[SydneySainter]

Ratts may not be the coach to take us to a flag, but his runs on the board suggest he’s a good coach.

Finally broke the finals drought last year and let’s face it, Carlton have never been the same since he left.

As for Richo, unless he scores another senior coaching gig and prove otherwise, he’ll always pale by comparison.

[The Billings Method]

Cuddles is all about "connection", I'm a fan of Ratts but is this the start of Ratts coaching being bought into question. Prior to our past 2 games I had previously mused about the "connection" culture and if it's capable of success.

Cuddles are nice when you are in love but love can be fickle in AFL land.

Cuddle culture works beautifully until the parties involved fall out of love. There's something rotten in Denmark......... And Moorabbin.

[kalsaint]

What some posters are suggesting will do nothing more than gift the opposition a 150 point victory.

You can't just 'play the kids' or 'play the guys we picked up if we get injuries' at the expense of our best players or best 22. We will get absolutely bent over if they do that.

We need our best 22 picked each week and those guys need to go into the matches with the right attitude. If you're on good coin you need to perform.

If they're injured they need to be rested, that's a different story altogether.

Totally agree with you. If this team has the potential to overcome the deficiencies after those last 2 games they should remain. I think this is the best option to re-establish stability. Without stability we risk little decent development of the youth and will be inviting the same old plan of Richo. We cant play youth without guidance and plenty of leadership or we suffer blowouts. In 2020 we had an unusual year that forced team bonding and a clear focus on our needs. This was to our advantage for our new trades. Have we lost the focus with the past solidarity and energy required to win. I think so.

We aren't GWS who have a multitude of injuries to many key players. They need to rest some and get game time into their youth in the meantime. The have youth in stock but do have senior players to cater for this. This might seem contradictive but they may not have any other options. Saints do have options and need to demonstrate how this club moves on from 2020, or start planning for list management over 2022 an 2023.

We need to know if a major improvement can occur using all our current ground seniors. These guys should be the ones leading the change by example and coaching the youth where necessary to meet the game plan. We have drafted players that are supposed to make a difference. Let them prove it or review their future need in conjunction with future trades later. 1 from 6 is shocking. To make finals requires an minimum of 12 wins from the remaining 17 matches. The focus must be reset by the coaching staff and senior players. I reckon its tough but we need to get close in at least 2 of the next 3 games as a minimum requirement. Failure to be competitive over the next 3 rounds is a bomb for the 2021 club ambition. Youth then should get plenty of game time to evaluate the clubs future needs.

Its hard to take but the clubs actions to the end of the year will need to be clear. We cant expect youth to win games but the correct development is essential for the future.

[Vortex]

Cuddles is all about "connection", I'm a fan of Ratts but is this the start of Ratts coaching being bought into question. Prior to our past 2 games I had previously mused about the "connection" culture and if it's capable of success.

Cuddles are nice when you are in love but love can be fickle in AFL land.

Cuddle culture works beautifully until the parties involved fall out of love. There's something rotten in Denmark......... And Moorabbin.

Breaking a 20 year record for the lowest number of tackles might suggest you are right with regards to something being rotten in Moorabbin.

Surely not, surely this is not 1998 all over again or all the other infamous moments in our club's history when some non football issue de-rails the club just when it is looking like it can enter into sustained success. Surely not...but our fears are completely understandable.

Only a record in the other direction with regards to tackles against the WCE might allay my fears...a win would go even further.

I hope Cuddles made the players wear mouth guards at training this week.

[SaintDippa]

We can set a World Record for tackles, World Record for pressure acts and World Record for whatever other commitment stat you want. If we keep bombing to the top of the square we're screwed. Inside 50s last two weeks, Dees 53-54, Ess 53-56. Most of our entries were not to targets just rubbish what Ratts calls "deep entries". Clean the F50 structure and entries and we'll stand a chance. If the bombs continue then there will be a new World Record, McGovern's 30 intercept marks.

[samuraisaint]

What some posters are suggesting will do nothing more than gift the opposition a 150 point victory.

You can't just 'play the kids' or 'play the guys we picked up if we get injuries' at the expense of our best players or best 22. We will get absolutely bent over if they do that.

We need our best 22 picked each week and those guys need to go into the matches with the right attitude. If you're on good coin you need to perform.

If they're injured they need to be rested, that's a different story altogether.

Totally agree with you. If this team has the potential to overcome the deficiencies after those last 2 games they should remain. I think this is the best option to re-establish stability. Without stability we risk little decent development of the youth and will be inviting the same old plan of Richo. We cant play youth without guidance and plenty of leadership or we suffer blowouts. In 2020 we had an unusual year that forced team bonding and a clear focus on our needs. This was to our advantage for our new trades. Have we lost the focus with the past solidarity and energy required to win. I think so.

We aren't GWS who have a multitude of injuries to many key players. They need to rest some and get game time into their youth in the meantime. The have youth in stock but do have senior players to cater for this. This might seem contradictive but they may not have any other options. Saints do have options and need to demonstrate how this club moves on from 2020, or start planning for list management over 2022 an 2023.

We need to know if a major improvement can occur using all our current ground seniors. These guys should be the ones leading the change by example and coaching the youth where necessary to meet the game plan. We have drafted players that are supposed to make a difference. Let them prove it or review their future need in conjunction with future trades later. 1 from 6 is shocking. To make finals requires an minimum of 12 wins from the remaining 17 matches. The focus must be reset by the coaching staff and senior players. I reckon its tough but we need to get close in at least 2 of the next 3 games as a minimum requirement. Failure to be competitive over the next 3 rounds is a bomb for the 2021 club ambition. Youth then should get plenty of game time to evaluate the clubs future needs.

Its hard to take but the clubs actions to the end of the year will need to be clear. We cant expect youth to win games but the correct development is essential for the future.

Spot on Kalsaint!
Ratten has a proven track record of getting teams up. His Carlton teams regularly won finals, arguably in an era when they shouldn't have. And they won some very big home and away matches too, on the big stage.
He was an assistant at the Hawks when they were winning Flags, and Clarkson doesn't put up with any dills, We are not dealing with a first time senior coach anymore like we have done for the past 37 seasons.
It is simply not a good idea to drop players like Hill who can really perform and have proven it, and forwards like Butler who have real talent, for somebody who has been playing in Sandy practice matches.
We have two injuries from Saturday's match as it is, and it looks like one of Marshall or Ryder will be back this week, so one of the talls we were playing in the ruck will come out. That's three changes right there for a start.
I have seen St Kilda sides only win 1 out of their first 5 in 1997, and 5 out of their first 11 matches in 2008 and go on to finish top four and even play off in Grand Finals.
I am not about to give up a season at Easter to 'play the kids'. It's a joke and all it will do is send the club backwards and gift our opposition 100 point wins.
That's 80's stuff and won't work in the professional era.

[B.M]

When did Carlton regularly play finals?

[samuraisaint]

When did Carlton regularly play finals?

2009, 2010, 2011 and 2013.

They even won a final in Perth against the Eagles during that period.