Time for 'Kosi' to stand up - The Age

[PJ]

I'm looking for a consistent effort over the season. Not looking for comparisons with Nick, I want a concerted, fulltime effort for the side without serious injury.

That's why your called the onlooker - hope Kosi can live up to your obvious high standards. Oh and what do you do by the way? Perhaps Kosi could come around to your work and give you a critic.

[BigMart]

Not sure he actually gave a 'critisism'

just a request....which is probably a fair one, from a paying member....

[PJ]

Members are allowed to make requests of players ?

How would you assess "I want a concerted , full time effort". praise perhaps, you don't think this is slightly critical of Kosi? Not that there's anything wrong with that but we can all put in our 2 bobs worthy when the expert in all of us can be a little over zealous.

[bigcarl]

some of the criticism is deserved, but people should bear in mind that when he's asked to play ff it's probably not his natural position.

[BigMart]

Again - he did not even level a critisism.......just asked for a consistent effort from a high profile player....not to much to ask.....Kosi does get some unfair 'critisism' due to injury......but this was not unfair - and not even a critisism.....

BTW - why would Kosi go to his work to give a critic???

[onlooker]

That's why your called the onlooker - hope Kosi can live up to your obvious high standards. Oh and what do you do by the way? Perhaps Kosi could come around to your work and give you a critic.[/quote]

Well PJ thyere is a difference between a criticism and an expectation and you can't obviously recoggnise the distinction. Look it up in the dictionary.

[perfectionist]

I restrained myself from saying this in my first post on this issue, but given what has been said since, the real problem was that some idiot coach decided that Kosi would be the number 1 ruckman. This was, no doubt, supported by the fact that the player, Kosi, wanted to be the number 1 ruckman, always expressed such a desire AND had a close relationship (it seems) with the coach.

Kosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman with the Saints or anyone else and I believe that most of his injuries and frustration indiscretions result from this stupid decision. Of course, every player can imagine a role for themselves which is simply a pipe dream. It is up to the coach and group around him (who didn't matter much to Thomas anyway) to advise otherwise when necessary. As I said in my first post, Kosi's problem has never been want of trying rather, he tries TOO hard. But he simply does not have the body nor the mobility for it. His best role is as he is currently being used. If he doesn't like it - stiff. He should have been told that five years ago.

[BigMart]

I agree in part.....about the fact he has never got his body right.....

Disagree with the rest.......

A bit of the chicken and the egg argument......was it rucking that caused Kosi's body to fall apart.....or Kosi's body falling apart that caused him to be unable to ruck....

I believe the latter.....

He rucked OK....Late 04 and Mid 05....infact he was dominant....but could not sustain it.....

if you look at all his injuries in isolation......you can find the problem, it has little to do with position....a lot to do with fitness levels and technique..

[bobmurray]

I thought the article was a fairly accurate summation of Kosi's overall career,it doesn't disregard Kosi's standout games.You can't summarise his career based on them alone though and thats the reason the writer
is looking at overall consistency...

Something that hasn't been Justin's strongpoint thus far....

[bigcarl]

kosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman.

i don't think he's a first ruck but i don't think he's a ff either.

he's a chf or second ruck.

he lacks the pace on the lead to be ff.

as i said earlier, very good full forwards average 4 goals a game over their careers, not just when they have a day out.

having said all that, kosi is a key part of this team's chances this season and is playing very good football. go kos.

[st.byron]

That's why your called the onlooker - hope Kosi can live up to your obvious high standards. Oh and what do you do by the way? Perhaps Kosi could come around to your work and give you a critic.

Oh FFS. How many times have we had the old, "he plays and you're an onlooker so you've got no right to be critical" argument.
He's a professional footballer, not an office worker. If he wants to cut it in such a high profile occupation, being critiqued goes with the territory.

[Bernard Shakey]

There's a lot of talk about Kosi's injury riddled career.

This is the second year in a row that he has completed a full preseason (actually probably had a better one last year).

Does anyone remember that he had a back problem in his first two years and the club allowed him to continue playing?
He was basically playing with a broken back, and a certain coach should take responsibility for that.

He also has a problem with his peripheral vision, hence the Gia collision.
This was know to all at the draft camp before he was drafted.

Taking all this into account and the fact that he was not producing for the club, I strongly suggested last year, that he should be traded.

Kosi wasn't traded and has started this season in a very positive manner. I hope he can continue to perform at this level, in which case he will be an asset to the club this year.

[st.byron]

I thought the article was a fairly accurate summation of Kosi's overall career,it doesn't disregard Kosi's standout games.You can't summarise his career based on them alone though and thats the reason the writer
is looking at overall consistency...

Something that hasn't been Justin's strongpoint thus far....

+1

[st.byron]

Thought the article was pretty spot on.

Some seem to have become bitter with the unfulfilled expectations (note: st. byron wouldn't fit this group IMO - he seems to take issue with anyone using the words "Koschitzke" and "potential" during the same 24 hour period, but his reasoning is pretty clear...........

That gave me a laugh BAM. Others have let me know that I've been perhaps a bit obsessive about this issue, hence am trying to be a bit more restrained.
Glad to know that the reasoning is pretty clear...

[onlooker]

There has been some discussion about what his natural position is. I'm not sure what it is now although like some posters I don't think he now has the mobility for CHB. In the last 2 weeks we have got great value from him in the forward line with the occassional short term shift down the ground. In some ways he is playing a similar role to Fraser at C'wood (being used in different roles during the game) but Kosi is a better contested mark IMO. On the injuries front I think the clash he had with Gian (I'm not going to try and spell it) knocked the absolute stuffing out of him and his recovery has taken a long time. I'm not convinced we were given the full story on how serious it was particularly with the later complications. At the moment we are getting real value from his efforts in the game plan (the coach is happy) so I reckon let it roll on.

[perfectionist]

Iosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman.

Actually, I wrote that... "Kosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman..."

I've no idea who "Iosi" is. Probably plays for Hellas in the Med AFL league.

[bigcarl]

Iosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman.

Actually, I wrote that... "Kosi was "never ever" going to be the number 1 ruckman..."

I've no idea who "Iosi" is. Probably plays for Hellas in the Med AFL league.

ah, okay. i apologise for misquoting you. i've edited my post.

[Teflon]

I dont think anyone disagrees the gap between his best/worst is to great.

That aside, Ive given up expecting the famous "streak" of 4 or 5 games he put on some time ago and instead now I am simply looking for a team contribution from Kosi. That means working himself into games when hes been quite.

I am glad that appears also to be the expectation of Lyon - play as a team, contribute. If Kosi does that Im happy.

[stkfc1]

There has been some discussion about what his natural position is. I'm not sure what it is now although like some posters I don't think he now has the mobility for CHB. In the last 2 weeks we have got great value from him in the forward line with the occassional short term shift down the ground. In some ways he is playing a similar role to Fraser at C'wood (being used in different roles during the game) but Kosi is a better contested mark IMO. On the injuries front I think the clash he had with Gian (I'm not going to try and spell it) knocked the absolute stuffing out of him and his recovery has taken a long time. I'm not convinced we were given the full story on how serious it was particularly with the later complications. At the moment we are getting real value from his efforts in the game plan (the coach is happy) so I reckon let it roll on.

I think the days of cut and dry positions are gone. rotations make it untenable...except for ruckman and FB. Kosi and Roo are floating forwards not FF not CHF just roaming around the 50 meter arc at times pushing up the ground. I think this is the way things will be from now on anyway. It's good because it's hard to match up on and as a defender it would be very easy to loose your man.Eg Rutten "lost "Kosi a few times.

[PJ]

Again - he did not even level a critisism.......just asked for a consistent effort from a high profile player

The request implies the criticism otherwise he wouldn't be asking for the effort.

why would Kosi go to his work to give a critic???

Perhaps he's part of the make a wish foundation.

Well PJ thyere is a difference between a criticism and an expectation and you can't obviously recoggnise the distinction. Look it up in the dictionary.

This is the most f*cked up sentence I've ever read onlooker - dictionary

Doubt you've ever seen one

Thanks for the tip though onlooker actually I did get out my dictionary and looked up the following

onlooker - non descript, anonymous parasite with delusions of grandeur

then I had a go at

Big Mart - sanctimonious, pretentious, opinionated twat with over inflated sense of self worth

How about that???

Gee the dictionary is an exciting place

Oh and finally I looked up

Kosi - Elite sportsperson that attracts seriously negative attention from invisible internet trash

But hey just an opinion

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I reckon you'd be bagging the article and author whoever wrote it just because you're sticking up for Kosi no matter what. Admirable loyalty but
no reason not to state the truth.

You reckon, do you?

Serious quantum leap.

To recap for your benefit: lazy, boring story about a subject that is really, really overdone and that served no purpose than to rehash rehashed thoughts by a) a dud ex-coach and b) another dud ex-coach who happened to be a fantastic servant of our club as a player.

...

I suspect here on Saintsational we may get a case of missing the forest for the trees when articles like this come along just because we here discuss things like this so often.

This week, I've had a Bulldogs fan, a Hawks fan, a Cats fan and a Pies fan all ask me about how excited I am about Kosi's form. The answer to the question is "not very".

And that article summed up the reasons why that's the answer very well. That was the main theme - those who have followed him closely will be keeping the lid firmly on any expectations of Kosi. I've pointed the 4 of them to that article.

Lazy? He had multiple Saints people in media roles outside the inner sanctum commenting, and probably spoke to more. Boring? It's inspired 3 pages on Saintsational. No purpose? It's given some insight into the St Kilda mindset on Koschitzke for supporters of the other 15 clubs.

For a filler midweek article, I wish the lazy, boring journalism which we're generally subjected to was as good as that more often.

[joffaboy]

He also has a problem with his peripheral vision, hence the Gia collision.
This was know to all at the draft camp before he was drafted.

Myth.

Draft camp results nullified years later by the same tests.

Myth.

[BigMart]

PJ - did you just spit the proverbial DUMMY?????.....

Rather be opinionated and egotistical than a sook.....

seriously, you made a ridiculous reply..and people jumped on it because of its worth......move on

[SainterK]

I reckon you'd be bagging the article and author whoever wrote it just because you're sticking up for Kosi no matter what. Admirable loyalty but
no reason not to state the truth.

You reckon, do you?

Serious quantum leap.

To recap for your benefit: lazy, boring story about a subject that is really, really overdone and that served no purpose than to rehash rehashed thoughts by a) a dud ex-coach and b) another dud ex-coach who happened to be a fantastic servant of our club as a player.

...

I suspect here on Saintsational we may get a case of missing the forest for the trees when articles like this come along just because we here discuss things like this so often.

This week, I've had a Bulldogs fan, a Hawks fan, a Cats fan and a Pies fan all ask me about how excited I am about Kosi's form. The answer to the question is "not very".

And that article summed up the reasons why that's the answer very well. That was the main theme - those who have followed him closely will be keeping the lid firmly on any expectations of Kosi. I've pointed the 4 of them to that article.

Lazy? He had multiple Saints people in media roles outside the inner sanctum commenting, and probably spoke to more. Boring? It's inspired 3 pages on Saintsational. No purpose? It's given some insight into the St Kilda mindset on Koschitzke for supporters of the other 15 clubs.

For a filler midweek article, I wish the lazy, boring journalism which we're generally subjected to was as good as that more often.

You said "not really"

[Moccha]

wrong thread