Saintsational v St Kilda (Best and Fairest)

[B.M]

You cannot have 22 Steele’s….

He’s a top 5 player in the comp

You cannot have 22 top 5 players in the comp?! Doesn’t make sense?!?!

We are lucky to have 1

And the Salary Cap is not 25 million!!!

[Sainter_Dad]

You cannot have 22 Steele’s….

He’s a top 5 player in the comp

You cannot have 22 top 5 players in the comp?! Doesn’t make sense?!?!

We are lucky to have 1

And the Salary Cap is not 25 million!!!

Are you intentionally Obtuse??????

I said:
I want 22 Steeles playing for St Kilda - 22 players who hurt like my Avatar after a loss - 22 players who want to pick up the team and the supporters and carry us all to the promised land!!!!

So - by taking less than 10 words out of the post you might as well answer:

I (Sainter_Dad) can't play for St Kilda because I said that they had more skill in their little finger than I had.

READ THE WHOLE POST - Respond to the WHOLE post - not just a little bit of it - Maybe that way you can have a decent conversation with people

[B.M]

Did you not say “I want 22 Jack Steele’s playing for StK”?

[Banger9798]

And then he qualified what he meant by that.
Pretty simple point he's making
Move on

[The_Dud]

Dunstan, Jones, Marshall, Billings, Ryder all poled votes tonight but weren’t in the B&F top 10.

Ross, Wilkie, Howard, Sinclair didn’t get a vote.

Dunstan equal 25th in the comp with 11 votes from 12 games. Imagine if he’d been given a fair crack in the seniors every week…

Laughable.

[StPeter]

Dunstan, Jones, Marshall, Billings, Ryder all poled votes tonight but weren’t in the B&F top 10.

Ross, Wilkie, Howard, Sinclair didn’t get a vote.

Dunstan equal 25th in the comp with 11 votes from 12 games. Imagine if he’d been given a fair crack in the seniors every week…

Laughable.

Club B&F awards vote quite differently to the Brownlow and placings are hugely influenced by number of games played.
So when only selected for a limited number of games like Dunstan this year (12 out of 22) it s virtually impossible to finish top 10 in club B&F.

Nevertheless it is somewhat embarrassing for the Club that he polled Brownlow votes in 5 of his 12 matches this year and votes in his only selected game last year. Despite this he was dropped after one match last year and was still dropped for the last match this season after performing so well.

He's quite entitled to think he was harshly treated by the selectors.

[Sainter_Dad]

Dunstan, Jones, Marshall, Billings, Ryder all poled votes tonight but weren’t in the B&F top 10.

Ross, Wilkie, Howard, Sinclair didn’t get a vote.

Dunstan equal 25th in the comp with 11 votes from 12 games. Imagine if he’d been given a fair crack in the seniors every week…

Laughable.

This is the way that voting should be - If you 'turn up' don't expect a rewards (aside from your paycheck) - if you bust a gut - get a vote - lets see the results from the Trevor Barker Award if you remove all the 1's!!!!

It would be an interesting read and I bet you Dunstan, Jones, Marshall, Billings, Ryder will poll better

[B.M]

So you can play 10 s*** games and win the TBA

That’d be a great system?!

[Sainter_Dad]

So you can play 10 s*** games and win the TBA

That’d be a great system?!

A great system - like the Brownlow - the media awards the AFLPA awards - yep

However - that is the point I am making - if the average is 1 (done your job) then there would have been games that the player got better than 1 vote - and so others that they did not even 'do their job' and that is just the top 10.

Those outside of the top 10 would have had games that they did not 'do their job'

If Dunstan plays 5 'out of the box' games and gets 'Best for St Kilda' - I would rather see him in the top 10 with 10 votes than say 'Pot 00000000' with 22 'did his job' games

With 10 votes - probably not going to win - but Steele with 14 'Best for St Kilda' and 4 BOGs get 40 votes (14 x 2 and 4 x 3) is a better representation of Excellence

MEDIOCRITY SUCKS - if you are happy with this and with 1 Premiership - fine - I would like to see St Kilda strive for EXCELLENCE.

Do you think the Trevor Barker Award more accurately reflects our top ten 'Champions' or the Brownlow or Eastern??

I would submit that the below table clearly indicates the flaws in the TBA (two of these columns hit the top 3 with variations to placing - the other got the winner right - but almost nothing else)

Player	Brownlow	Eastern	TBA
Jack Steele	1	1	1
Luke Dunstan	2	3	?
Brad Crouch	3	2	5
Bradley Hill	4	9	5
Zak Jones	4	5	?
Rowan Marshall	4	4	?
Max King	7	13	10
Tim Membrey	7	10	3
Paddy Rider	7	12	?
Jack Billings	10	7	?
Gresham	11	21	?
Higgins	11	15	?
Sharman	11	18	?

[The_Dud]

So you can play 10 s*** games and win the TBA

That’d be a great system?!

It would mean you'd also have to play 10 fantastic games, so yeah, better system.

Much better than playing 20 average ones and finishing top 10.

[CQ SAINT]

If someone does their job - consistently

Isnt that called

Being a good player?!

Id rather he was a superstar but it is what it is.

[Sainter_Dad]

If someone does their job - consistently

Isnt that called

Being a good player?!

Id rather he was a superstar but it is what it is.

However as B.M points out - we can't have 22 Superstars without Brown Paper Bags - but if everyone strives to be a Superstar then we can try and attain EXCELLENCE and the coveted next and subsequent Premierships

[CQ SAINT]

If someone does their job - consistently

Isnt that called

Being a good player?!

Id rather he was a superstar but it is what it is.

However as B.M points out - we can't have 22 Superstars without Brown Paper Bags - but if everyone strives to be a Superstar then we can try and attain EXCELLENCE and the coveted next and subsequent Premierships

Exactly, this is why he is no longer carrying the mantle of our best mid accumulator and is playing negating roles on more dangerous footballers and tries to create a link through the midfield.
If that makes him a whipping boy, blame the coach, who just found a role that maximises the benefits of his positive attributes and suits his lack of elite ball skills.
Let's face it, if he had those skills he would be a superstar. Getting the ball isn't Sebs problem.

[Vortex]

Dunstan, Jones, Marshall, Billings, Ryder all poled votes tonight but weren’t in the B&F top 10.

Ross, Wilkie, Howard, Sinclair didn’t get a vote.

Dunstan equal 25th in the comp with 11 votes from 12 games. Imagine if he’d been given a fair crack in the seniors every week…

Laughable.

Club B&F awards vote quite differently to the Brownlow and placings are hugely influenced by number of games played.
So when only selected for a limited number of games like Dunstan this year (12 out of 22) it s virtually impossible to finish top 10 in club B&F.

Nevertheless it is somewhat embarrassing for the Club that he polled Brownlow votes in 5 of his 12 matches this year and votes in his only selected game last year. Despite this he was dropped after one match last year and was still dropped for the last match this season after performing so well.

He's quite entitled to think he was harshly treated by the selectors.

5 good games from 12 games this season is possibly the reason he is looking for another club. And really it's 5 good games from 12 games this season plus the majority of his career games. And you have to be suspicious about what motivated him to cobble 5 good games together this year and also be concerned about him being capable of using the same motivation over a sustained period. History doesn't paint a glowing picture of his ability to perform consistently to the required level for a midfielder.

[The_Dud]

Quite funny how some people are happy with a bloke who consistently plays average games, but not one who plays half average and half great games!

I think it's more to do with them making an early call (not AFL standard!) being made to look silly but still refusing to back down, and are now taking the ridiculous delisting as some sort of win!

[B.M]

If you think Dunstan is a better footballer than Ross

Maybe have a look at career numbers

For a more accurate analysis

Than a 5 game stretch

Played some good games this season but was also poor in some

Poor games by players are what causes losses
Coaches hate it when players don’t perform their role

[The_Dud]

I'll say it again, as many have said over and over and over again.

We're not talking about 2017, or 2019, or his career, or his career, or his career, or his career.

We're talking about recent performances, relevant performances, we're talking about 2021.

Do I need to repeat it again?

Dunstan outperformed Seb in 2021 only playing half the games. If Duntsan had been given the same equal opportunity as Seb this would be even more evident (if not already).

What 'role' didn't he perform? This sounds more like a coaching issue than player one. Let's not forget the coaches went into the season with a cross against his name, I'm sure confirmation bias came into it every time he did even the slightest thing 'wrong'.

Anyone know how many B&F votes Dunstan got? I'll eat my hat if he didn't average more per game than Seb, as painful as this would have been for the coaches.

The rest of the AFL are laughing at us for letting him go, and rightfully so.

[Mr Magic]

I'll say it again, as many have said over and over and over again.

We're not talking about 2017, or 2019, or his career, or his career, or his career, or his career.

We're talking about recent performances, relevant performances, we're talking about 2021.

Do I need to repeat it again?

Dunstan outperformed Seb in 2021 only playing half the games. If Duntsan had been given the same equal opportunity as Seb this would be even more evident (if not already).

What 'role' didn't he perform? This sounds more like a coaching issue than player one. Let's not forget the coaches went into the season with a cross against his name, I'm sure confirmation bias came into it every time he did even the slightest thing 'wrong'.

Anyone know how many B&F votes Dunstan got? I'll eat my hat if he didn't average more per game than Seb, as painful as this would have been for the coaches.

The rest of the AFL are laughing at us for letting him go, and rightfully so.

Just curious.
Do you support St Kilda or Luke Dunstan?
Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.
He's obviously not someone the coaching panel or list management people feel is necessary for our Club going forward.
He's not the first player (at any Club) or going to be the last player to find himself in this position.
Personally I thought he was a great pickup by us. Early on I thought he was tracking along very nicely. The Club obviously thought so also to award him Lenny's #.
But something happened along the way - he obviously didn't achieve what a succession of coaching panels felt he should achieve (he didn't just fall out of favour under Ratten) and hence finds himself in the position that he does.

[The_Dud]

Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.

AFLCA votes:

Dunstan - 31 (easily second like the brownlow)
Ross - 6

Whoops...

[Mr Magic]

Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.

AFLCA votes:

Dunstan - 31 (easily second like the brownlow)
Ross - 6

Whoops...

I hope he finds a new home soon - we'll then know which team you're going to follow him to.
Interestingly the coaches hated him so much they gave him votes in 4 games.
But what would they know? - they're deliberately sabotaging the Club by getting rid of our second best player.

[shanegrambeau]

Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.

AFLCA votes:

Dunstan - 31 (easily second like the brownlow)
Ross - 6

Whoops...

I hope he finds a new home soon - we'll then know which team you're going to follow him to.
Interestingly the coaches hated him so much they gave him votes in 4 games.
But what would they know? - they're deliberately sabotaging the Club by getting rid of our second best player.

Second in the Brownlow for us….and more than double the third placed player!

That’s embarrassing!

What is going on?????

[shanegrambeau]

Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.

AFLCA votes:

Dunstan - 31 (easily second like the brownlow)
Ross - 6

Whoops...

I hope he finds a new home soon - we'll then know which team you're going to follow him to.
Interestingly the coaches hated him so much they gave him votes in 4 games.
But what would they know? - they're deliberately sabotaging the Club by getting rid of our second best player.

Second in the Brownlow for us….and more than double the third placed player!

That’s embarrassing!

What is going on?????

[Mr Magic]

Dunstan outperformed Ross in the eyes of your love children only.

AFLCA votes:

Dunstan - 31 (easily second like the brownlow)
Ross - 6

Whoops...

I hope he finds a new home soon - we'll then know which team you're going to follow him to.
Interestingly the coaches hated him so much they gave him votes in 4 games.
But what would they know? - they're deliberately sabotaging the Club by getting rid of our second best player.

Second in the Brownlow for us….and more than double the third placed player!

That’s embarrassing!

What is going on?????

Less embarrassing than our greatest ever coach offloading our dual Brownlow medalist to Richmond where he duly won his 3rd Brownlow.
Yes there were reasons Jeans did it, just as I'm sure there are reasons why Dunstan is currently out of favour with our coaching panel.
Maybe we should take a global view of what is going on rather than merely getting hysterical over the fact that one of our favourite players seems to be out of favour with his coaches?
I'm sure he's not going just because somebody doesn't like him.

Much like Luke Ball's departure, there's always more to the story than what some would have you believe.
And not even you or Dud would claim Dunstan is the player Ball was - would you?

[Sainter_Dad]

And not even you or Dud would claim Dunstan is the player Ball was - would you?

Careful what you assume there MM

[The_Dud]

There's clearly more going on than what's on the surface, and I think it harks back to the preseason where he was (allegedly) told he will not get a game. Are personal clashes getting in the way of having the best players for our team?

Coaches are human, they like and dislike people just like the rest of us, they make mistakes just like the rest of us. Lyon make a mistake by not playing Ball in the last quarter of the GF and didn't think he was a valuable player. Ball went on to win a GF the next year. Is Lyon above questioning?

Is Ratts (and the rest) above questioning in regards to Dunstan?