Andrew Plympton on SEN

[ozrulestrace]

Sorry I asked.

Other than who ever provided the link for the SEN podcast, this whole discussion got shanghaied into a "I still hate Grant Thomas and Rod Butterss" forum and I'm not impressed.

I just wanted to get the background on the Saints signing of the stadium deal back in 199 and how it may have helped put us in poor financial situation today.

Time to move on about GT and RB.

[Mr Magic]

On this subject, did anybody hear Brian Waldron on SEN this morning re the deal?

He stated that the deal he negotiated when he was there would have meant that the Saints would have earned about $200k on the 3 matches this season as described in the media.

He went on to say he has no idea what deal was struck by the previous administration (not the cuirrent one) after he left, but would be really surprized if the deal had not been better than the one he struck.

The Saints were performing much better and would have been in a better bargaining position than when he had to do the deal.

[saintbrat]

there are no ' CURRENT' deals is the problem

was stated in recent weeks By Smorgan that the clubs concerned expected the prevuious deal( which ran out end of 2008) to just roll on whilst new arrangemnts made- THIS DID NOT happen and the stadium owners and management have put in place some other ' accounting' system.


to my recollection there have been only two deals..

PS reminder DONT buy at the sports store near GATE 1- it's just mroe money for Essendon who'se arrangement with the stadium is that NO-ONE can have a better deal than them
- in other words their merchandise outlet can be open for EVERY game at the venue- whilst all others can only sell INSIDE the stadium on HOME game days.

[To the top]

Stinger, if it was not for Butters and the Board of that time St Kilda FC would no longer be in existance.

I do not know if you have sufficient intelligence to actually read and comprehend the continuation of items appearing in the Financial Pages of the media, advising us of Companies raising Capital at discounted to market considerations to repay debt, selling assets at discounted to market considerations to repay debt (and taking the write downs to the Balance Sheet), restructuring businesses to reduce non-interest costs (like wages, hence re-locations off-shore) to reduce debt, reducing dividends to repay debt or just plain collapsing under the weight of asset write downs exceeding Capital and Reserves.

DEBT has become the master - and why the Government must stand - because business, totally consumed by reducing debt, is disappearing up its own back side so impetus must come from elsewhere until realistic asset values and servicable debt levels underpin activity.

St Kilda FC was racked with debt and, in a period of years when leverage up was the only game in town - between 2000 and 2007, St Kilda FC chose to use its cash surpluses to actually repay debt.

And just as well.

IF the Butters Board did as you suggest and St Kilda FC started the 2008 season with $3- Million to $4- Million of debt (and the cost of interest over the period on top of this), to which we add the losses of 2008 and probable losses in the ensuing years (2009 onwards) until the Corporate world "recovers" where would St Kilda FC be today?

With $5 Million plus of debt and a lender wanting the money paid back - because that is all banks want these days - again read the press.

And how does St Kilda FC pay it back?

From its trading losses in 2008?

Back to the days of Fox, when the persona of Fox was the only reason St Kilda FC got away with paying 20 cents in the $1- to Creditors, principal of whom was ANZ Banking Group who Fox put the absolute heavy on not to liquidate St Kilda FC, which it could have done as the principal Creditor?

St Kilda FC will not get away with such a "trick" again.

You see Stinger, everyone is rich enough to do something.

It is when you attempt to do something you are not rich enough to do that trouble starts.

Perhaps you should learn that lesson.

Because it holds for all of us, including the St Kilda FC.

[saintsRrising]

You have a really sneeky way of saying you hate GT. At least a few others are honest in their hatred. You just drop the hints.

Sneeky?

You must be a sad person Plugger.

Just because I believe someone did a bad job does not mean that I hate him.

I regard David Windbanks for example as a very poor St Kilda player. Do I hate him? No.

You must lead very sad life if you hate everyone that you believe is doing a bad job or has not performed well.


I am certainly not happy that GT gained the job as coach of StKFC in a dishonest way.

The fact that he did not have the required background for the position only compounds this.

But hate? No.

You are obviously projecting your skewed value system onto mine.

IMO GT cost us a flag. Do I hate him for this? No. Am I unhappy about this = yes.

I strongly regret him having having been coach of the Saints at a time when we had assembled the best pool of talent that I had ever seen at the Saints...and at a time when the Lions and PA were about to go into decline.


Some regard GT as having done a great job as we finished Top 4.

Personally I reckon he took a team that should have finished first and underperformed.

A team that should have continued to have iproved, but did not because he oversaw a series of overpriced and bad trades....and ignore the rookie sustem (as I posted before he left).

[plugger66]

You have a really sneeky way of saying you hate GT. At least a few others are honest in their hatred. You just drop the hints.

Sneeky?

You must be a sad person Plugger.

Just because I believe someone did a bad job does not mean that I hate him.

I regard David Windbanks for example as a very poor St Kilda player. Do I hate him? No.

You must lead very sad life if you hate everyone that you believe is doing a bad job or has not performed well.


I am certainly not happy that GT gained the job as coach of StKFC in a dishonest way.

The fact that he did not have the required background for the position only compounds this.

But hate? No.

You are obviously projecting your skewed value system onto mine.

IMO GT cost us a flag. Do I hate him for this? No. Am I unhappy about this = yes.

I strongly regret him having having been coach of the Saints at a time when we had assembled the best pool of talent that I had ever seen at the Saints...and at a time when the Lions and PA were about to go into decline.


Some regard GT as having done a great job as we finished Top 4.

Personally I reckon he took a team that should have finished first and underperformed.

A team that should have continued to have iproved, but did not because he oversaw a series of overpriced and bad trades....and ignore the rookie sustem (as I posted before he left).

In which year should we have won a flag and do you know that if he wasnt coach we would have even been in the finals in that year. No team as shown by Hawthorn this year and they havent even had the injuries we had back in GT day could have won a flag but keep peddling your stuff plenty will believe you. Hindsight is a great thing but I would be pretty sure back in 2005 and 2006 injuires were mentioned as a reason for losing more than GT coaching. I am not a sad person but one who continues to look back in the past and blame others certainly is.

[saintsRrising]

LOL...

Injuries are not the main reason why the Hawks are having a poorer season...

Hawks fans say their backline is denuded..

Saints backline is missing 4 players that pre-season many Saints fans would have said were in our starting 6 backline...and but yet...



However yes injuries are always a factor...goes without saying.

But GT bungling included the following:

* He demanded responsibility for player conditioning and management...and under this we had one of the worst soft tissue rate in the league.... Now you might be unlucky in one...but when it keeps happening over years...onlya fol would say it was just bad luck.


* contacts paid to Saints players so that we had to play short of the number of players that we could of had and sould have had...when you have injuries this bites you on the bum PLUS he it hurts your future as you are churning through less players


* basically ignored the rookie list...compared to 2009 where we have had injuries...and rookies and ex-rookies are filling the breech.

* traded consiteantly for players that did not delive

But yes delude yourself that GT was only "unlucky" with injuries....instead of facing the reality that his mismangement was the cause of our high ijury rate over many years....

...and that give the injuries the affect was greater because he failed to deliver the depth that we should have had in our list..


Or was GT just "unlucky" with injuries..

unlucky with rookies

unlucky with player contracts

unlucky with traded players.....



Yes GT was very unlucky....no...he just simply was not very good.

[plugger66]

LOL...

Injuries are not the main reason why the Hawks are having a poorer season...

Hawks fans say their backline is denuded..

Saints backline is missing 4 players that pre-season many Saints fans would have said were in our starting 6 backline...and but yet...



However yes injuries are always a factor...goes without saying.

But GT bungling included the following:

* He demanded responsibility for player conditioning and management...and under this we had one of the worst soft tissue rate in the league.... Now you might be unlucky in one...but when it keeps happening over years...onlya fol would say it was just bad luck.


* contacts paid to Saints players so that we had to play short of the number of players that we could of had and sould have had...when you have injuries this bites you on the bum PLUS he it hurts your future as you are churning through less players


* basically ignored the rookie list...compared to 2009 where we have had injuries...and rookies and ex-rookies are filling the breech.

* traded consiteantly for players that did not delive

But yes delude yourself that GT was only "unlucky" with injuries....instead of facing the reality that his mismangement was the cause of our high ijury rate over many years....

...and that give the injuries the affect was greater because he failed to deliver the depth that we should have had in our list..


Or was GT just "unlucky" with injuries..

unlucky with rookies

unlucky with player contracts

unlucky with traded players.....



Yes GT was very unlucky....no...he just simply was not very good.

I love it that you know he was allowed to get as many rookies as he wanted ot that he had complete contol over the medical staff. I wish I could come across paper work that says that is all fact or again like a lot of things on here, if mentioned enough it becomes fact. Even with the depth I would say it was great back in 2005. How would any side in this day and age win that final against Adelaide if we had no depth. Like most things on here fiction becomes fact after a while. The one this you are consistant about is letting fiction become fact.

[saintsRrising]

Now Plugger you are making up statements.

[plugger66]

Now Plugger you are making up statements.

I actually didnt say a statement, I challenged your statements.

[saintsRrising]

Fiction. Now which SS regular posted last year that M Gardiner was going to defintely retire at the end of 2008.

I wonder????

[saintsRrising]

Now Plugger you are making up statements.

I actually didnt say a statement, I challenged your statements.

GT asked for and got responsibility for player conditioning.

[plugger66]

Fiction. Now which SS regular posted last year that M Gardiner was going to defintely retire at the end of 2008.

I wonder????

I certainly did. I also said maxy would miss 4 more weeks when they said one 4 weeks ago. I was wrong. I normally am but what has that got to do with what you said. Not a lot I would think.

[saintsRrising]

I love it that you know he was allowed to get as many rookies as he wanted .

Please supply an example of where I posted this?

Your statement is fiction.


What I have staed is that GT did not make as much use out of the rookie system that he could have.... Penny drop perhaps?

It is very hard to develop your fringe players when you have a poor relationship with your VFL affilaite (compare this to recent times).

If GT had acceepted Drain when offered to him by the Club, GT would have had more time to coach players including rookies.

[saintsRrising]

[No team as shown by Hawthorn this year and they havent even had the injuries .

Iinteresting..Dons witha truckload of injuries are curently up 82 to 65...

[plugger66]

I love it that you know he was allowed to get as many rookies as he wanted .

Please supply an example of where I posted this?

Your statement is fiction.


What I have staed is that GT did not make as much use out of the rookie system that he could have.... Penny drop perhaps?

It is very hard to develop your fringe players when you have a poor relationship with your VFL affilaite (compare this to recent times).

If GT had acceepted Drain when offered to him by the Club, GT would have had more time to coach players including rookies.

Firstly both your comment and mine are similar and secondly please supply information as to when the club offerred Drain to the club. Please accept the fact that he had little or no money to work with compared to now or do evn think that is a false statement.

[saintsRrising]

secondly please supply information as to when the club offerred Drain to the club.

The Club wanted to hire Drain a year before GT was given the heave ho.

The only reason the Club did not hire him was that GT refused.

Please accept the fact that he had little or no money to work with compared to now or do evn think that is a false statement.

LOL..you are funny Plugger.

Of course the club has more money now compared to 4 years ago...as all clubs do.


What has your money statement got to do with things like salary cap?

We MAXED out with GT doing the contracts....so money was there to pay for a WHOLE playing list...or at least it was if you had player contracts manager capable of spreading the money to ensure that we could have enough players.

GT STUFFED it up...pure and simple.
I find it amusing that some forumites seem to think that GTt was a great contracts manager when he could not balance the books...and was twice bitten badly with long-term contracts.

[saintsRrising]

Oh...and no..Drain would not have worked for free....

[plugger66]

secondly please supply information as to when the club offerred Drain to the club.

The Club wanted to hire Drain a year before GT was given the heave ho.

The only reason the Club did not hire him was that GT refused.

Please accept the fact that he had little or no money to work with compared to now or do evn think that is a false statement.

LOL..you are funny Plugger.

Of course the club has more money now compared to 4 years ago...as all clubs do.


What has your money statement got to do with things like salary cap?

We MAXED out with GT doing the contracts....so money was there to pay fora WHOLE playing list...or at least it was if you had player contracts manager capable of spearding the money to ensure that we could have enough players.

GT STUFFED it up...pure and simple.

Thanks for not giving me information on Drain apart from yours and telling me all clubs have more money however please supply the paperwork on how much GT and his staff had to work with and how much RL and his staff have to work with. At a guess we were about 14th on money spent on football 5 years ago now we are about 8th. Again that was probably GT fault.

[asiu]

The fact that he did not have the required background for the position only compounds this.

thats propaganda not fact , essdoubler


played footy, coached, st kilda boy willing to take on numerous tasks , footy and management whilst under capitalised as the club focuses on debt

perfect applicant imo

[saintsRrising]

secondly please supply information as to when the club offerred Drain to the club. Please accept the fact that he had little or no money to work with compared to now or do evn think that is a false statement.

Ok Plugger...your wish is my command.

1/
http://about.theage.com.au/view_award.asp?intid=99

August 2005

These events followed a dispute the previous summer over the appointment of a football manager who, ultimately, was never appointed. The administration had decided to hire former Essendon football manager Matthew Drain but changed its plans in the face of opposition from Thomas and instead added responsibilities to assistant coach Matt Rendell.



and on money...

2/

Thomas negotiated a new three-year contract, opted to take the team to South Africa for a training camp in November at a cost of $250,000 and appointed former Fremantle fitness coach Adam Larcom - a hiring not fully endorsed by the board first.

So Plugger..note that is GT hiring the conditioning staff.....lucky Gt was an expert in such things eh? I mean he was wasn't he????


3/ "He (Thomas) might want to go to South Africa, and I'm thinking, 'Hang on, that's going to cost us $250,000 and we've still got debts of $2 million.' That, for instance, was a contentious issue we struggled with," Butterss conceded.


Now lets see...$250,000 on a great tavel experience....or maybe $250,000 may have been better spent on say more physios for the year???



So Plugger do you now accpt that:

* GT knocked back Drain
* That GT was the guy making the calls on the player condtioning department )traing services)
* That there were sums of money available for player conditioning...or at least there could have been...



Personally I much prefer our more recent approach where we had Ross Smith (a well respected sport scientist..as well as Club Legend) making the calls on who was hired for our player conditioning.

[saintsRrising]

Thanks for not giving me information on Drain apart from yours .

Thanks for your sarcasm...but I have actually posted a link to a newspaper article backing up my recollection.

Do you accept now that GT could have had Drain working with him...or do you still have your head in the sand?

[saintsRrising]

The fact that he did not have the required background for the position only compounds this.

thats propaganda not fact , essdoubler


played footy, coached, st kilda boy willing to take on numerous tasks , footy and management whilst under capitalised as the club focuses on debt

perfect applicant imo

And which AFL club was GT an assistant coach at?

Worked well with Watson too....

[stinger]

Sorry I asked.

Other than who ever provided the link for the SEN podcast, this whole discussion got shanghaied into a "I still hate Grant Thomas and Rod Butterss" forum and I'm not impressed.

I just wanted to get the background on the Saints signing of the stadium deal back in 199 and how it may have helped put us in poor financial situation today.

Time to move on about GT and RB.

sorry about that.......i was struck by how much i still admired andrew and what a good interview he did....didn't big note himself...or speak poorly....unlike some others i dare not mention,, but who made a fool of themselves every time they gave...and still give...interviews......very difficult for long time supporters of the club to forget their emotional involvements.and attachments...

[stinger]

Stinger, if it was not for Butters and the Board of that time St Kilda FC would no longer be in existance.

I do not know if you have sufficient intelligence .

i stopped reading your crap at the above point.......if you want me to listen don't be f****** insulting.......i would be willing to put $1,000 on the fact that i have a higher iq and am better educated than you.....