The Williams Method

[Teflon]

Riewoldt, Ball, Dal Santo are stars - they were ALWAYS gonna be stars as they have the natural talent for 2.

Rubbish.

You realise how many highly talented kids have not made the grade? Top ten draft picks who are languishing in lower leagues? Go through all the drafts and for every superstar there are twenty who haven't realised their potential.

Talent, no matter how immense it may seem, needs to be nurtured. Players who are in their formative years as AFL footballers need to be taught, developed, disciplined or they become the next Ashley Sampi or Kepler Bradley.

And conversely, you might get a player like Justin Westoff, highly unfancied (pick 71), taken by a club with the right people around him to allow his talent, as raw as it is, to flourish.

Maybe Caydn Beetham, in different surroundings under a different coach who was able to reach him and get the best out of him, could've played 200 games and been an All-Australian.

To say that a player was ALWAYS going to be a star is ridiculous. Some players have a better chance due to their attitude and their ability to learn, for sure, but a lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes with every champion. There isn't a single coach in the universe who would disagree with what I'm saying.

Mate IF you reckon Thomas markedly improved Riewoldt beyond what he was always gonna be as a player and want to compare him to Caydn Beetham - your beyond help.

But let me guess.....the o/s trips/junkets made him a more "rounded" individual....ppplleeeaasee....

Mark Williams DEVELOPS players cause he understand the game - not in a wishy washy "belief cloud" manner....but in a technical sense that he is able to translate to up and coming players AND supposed has-beens.

BIG DIFFERENCE - between him and man manager Grant......lucky for us I believe Lyon IS has an astute technical understanding of the game....he just needs some time.

[markinUSA]

On a slight tangent - but since his name was mentioned - Cadyn Beetham was never the same since (the thug) Ablett Senior broke his jaw. We don't know what he would have been without that huge setback. Still resent Ablett for that, and the (thuggish) attack on Nathan Burke in that final (was it 92?). Cost us a final, that did.

[Dan Warna]

On a slight tangent - but since his name was mentioned - Cadyn Beetham was never the same since (the thug) Ablett Senior broke his jaw. We don't know what he would have been without that huge setback. Still resent Ablett for that, and the (thuggish) attack on Nathan Burke in that final (was it 92?). Cost us a final, that did.

? I dont think ablett was playing footy when we got caydn beetham? wasn't he 96 draft? or did I miss something...

[rodgerfox]

rodgerfox, I could put a completely different spin on each of those names that made it seem as if Williams had a lot to do with their development.

Doubt it will change your opinion.


I do agree with you that second and third stringers look better when you have a full compliment of players in ...

My opinion is that Williams is a very good coach.

But (not directing this at you) people do this every year. They look at who is in the GF and disect the reasons for their success.

More often than not, they over complicate the reasons for the success and this becomes a footy myth overnight. This is where footy myths are born. Happens every year.

Port have 11 premiership players, multiple AAs and superstars in all the key areas.

Williams has developed some players, no doubt. I just don't think he has excelled in this area more than most other coaches.

He has an awesome list, and some second stringers which look great when the superstars are fit.

When Port suffer injuries, they're like everyone else.

Geelong the same.

St.Kilda the same.

To be honest, the major difference is that when we are decimated by injury we only missed the 8 by a game. When other clubs are decimated, they don't get close.

Yet supposedly we have a poor list. We don't develop players. We have a messiah complex. We are one dimensional. We have no depth. We are slow. We need ruckmen. We have poor skills.

[saintsRrising]

But (not directing this at you) people do this every year. They look at who is in the GF and disect the reasons for their success.

More often than not, they over complicate the reasons for the success and this becomes a footy myth overnight. This is where footy myths are born. Happens every year.

.

Well just as well then Rodger that I posted my reasons for PA's rise at the START of the year...and you said I was wrong....

[Beej]

Riewoldt, Ball, Dal Santo are stars - they were ALWAYS gonna be stars as they have the natural talent for 2.

Rubbish.

You realise how many highly talented kids have not made the grade? Top ten draft picks who are languishing in lower leagues? Go through all the drafts and for every superstar there are twenty who haven't realised their potential.

Talent, no matter how immense it may seem, needs to be nurtured. Players who are in their formative years as AFL footballers need to be taught, developed, disciplined or they become the next Ashley Sampi or Kepler Bradley.

And conversely, you might get a player like Justin Westoff, highly unfancied (pick 71), taken by a club with the right people around him to allow his talent, as raw as it is, to flourish.

Maybe Caydn Beetham, in different surroundings under a different coach who was able to reach him and get the best out of him, could've played 200 games and been an All-Australian.

To say that a player was ALWAYS going to be a star is ridiculous. Some players have a better chance due to their attitude and their ability to learn, for sure, but a lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes with every champion. There isn't a single coach in the universe who would disagree with what I'm saying.

Mate IF you reckon Thomas markedly improved Riewoldt beyond what he was always gonna be as a player and want to compare him to Caydn Beetham - your beyond help.

But let me guess.....the o/s trips/junkets made him a more "rounded" individual....ppplleeeaasee....

Mark Williams DEVELOPS players cause he understand the game - not in a wishy washy "belief cloud" manner....but in a technical sense that he is able to translate to up and coming players AND supposed has-beens.

BIG DIFFERENCE - between him and man manager Grant......lucky for us I believe Lyon IS has an astute technical understanding of the game....he just needs some time.

The talent was there with Roo, his ability was plain to see. However, you can have all the talent in the world but it means nothing unless it's nurtured properly. It can't be taken for granted. To become the player that Roo has become he needed to learn values, ethics, belief and it needed to be ingrained into his head.

They say 90% of the game is played above the shoulders. You can be the most gifted athlete in the world but you may not be the most focussed. In those circumstances you cannot underestimate the role a coach has in developing that aspect of a players game. Youngsters are impressionable and in the wrong environment a player without the necessary mental tools may struggle and therefore would need special attention.

GT had a massive impact on Roo not only as a footballer but as a person which is probably why they remain extremely close to this day. If you asked Roo who has had the biggest influence on his career you know what the answer would be.

Not saying that Roo couldn't have been as good a player had he gone to another club but there is always that possibility.

[saintsRrising]

Both the Cats and the Power have developed their younger players,,,,,and reformed players said not to good enough or not making the most of their natural talent...but who have talent.



PA have made Motlop and Rodan into better players....


The Cats with Mooney, Johnson and Ottens...


Both teams have done many other things well, including the Cats with their improveded finess management (new Club Doctor with 2 years experience from being a head docor at a English Soccer Club & sincea whole new medical team to boot).



Both teams have takean a structured approach to their list....and improved their teams balance.

For years it was said..."if only" the Cats had some key forwards......and with Mooney reformed and Ottens secured...and the bad boy Johnson dealt with us well......they now have the forward line to match.

PA have injected youth and pace to complement the good players that they had.

[saintsRrising]

I heard Cripps interviewed on the radio prior to the game on Saturday...and interestingly enough when he was asked about Williams...he said that Williams's greatest strength was that he was a very good teacher ....and in teaching and developing players.




As an aside he also said that the new Melbourne Coach was very good in this way too....which is also what Burke has said about him.

[Beej]

I heard Cripps interviewed on the radio prior to the game on Saturday...and interestingly enough when he was asked about Williams...he said that Williams's greatest strength was that he was a very good teacher ....and in teaching and developing players.

He's also a phenomenal motivator. With both Motlop and Rodan he knows how to make them tick, how to get the best out of them. He probably gave them what no other coach in the AFL has been able to thus far, and that's belief in their ability to get the job done.

IMO GT was also a very good motivator. The players were an extremely tight bunch who played for each other. Riewoldt has spoken about a "pact" that the players made to keep this group together to achieve success together. Under GT it was undeniably the closest knit St Kilda outfit we've seen in decades.

[saintsRrising]

I agree that GT was in a good "motivator".....and that of the various coaching skills ...that this was probably where he was best.

[rodgerfox]

Well just as well then Rodger that I posted my reasons for PA's rise at the START of the year...and you said I was wrong....

You were wrong.

You know what Port have added this year as compared to last? Their good players.

They are fit.

You're jumping at shadows again. Like clockwork - you're talking up Geelong and Port.

Last year it was West Coast and their rookies.

The year before Sydney and their depth.

Where were West Coast's rookies when Judd, Kerr and Cousins were injured?

Where's Sydney's depth when Hall is injured and Kennelly did his knee?

Where was Williams' brilliantly developed players last year when his guns were injured?


You are the master of the footy myth.

[saintsRrising]

Where were West Coast's rookies when Judd, Kerr and Cousins were injured?

.

well the last match I saw the Weagles play two ex-rookies were their TWO best players on the day.

[rodgerfox]

Where were West Coast's rookies when Judd, Kerr and Cousins were injured?

.

well the last match I saw the Weagles play two ex-rookies were their TWO best players on the day.

And how did they go? Win the flag?

[saintsRrising]

The year before Sydney and their depth.

.

er pardon???

When have I said that depth was the reason for the swan's flag????

You are making this up.

[saintsRrising]

When are you going to cotton on to the fact Rodger that a club has to do many things well to win a flag...and not just the one point??????


If you can gain an edge in one area...it can give you an advantage...and perhaps make up for a weakness in another....




The Cats and PA are in the GF this year because BOTH have down MANY things well....

[saintsRrising]

Where was Williams' brilliantly developed players last year when his guns were injured?


.

Williams builta team that domianted the AFL for several years...and then won the flag.


PA have a ruthless culture of EXPECTING to always be successful and to regularly win premierhips.


After they won a flag he tooka cold hard look at his team.....and started restructuring it to win their next flag....





As to Williams being a very good developmenmt and teaching coach....most of the footballers or coaches interviewed on Williams will remark on Williams being exceptional in this area. You would have it that they are all wrong...and that you are right.

You are entitled to your view......but I hold another and that this aspect is one in which Williams excells in.

[wildgoose]

When are you going to cotton on to the fact Rodger that a club has to do many things well to win a flag...and not just the one point??????


If you can gain an edge in one area...it can give you an advantage...and perhaps make up for a weakness in another....




The Cats and PA are in the GF this year because BOTH have down MANY things well....

He can't any team that makes a Grand Final has a taletned list that is all, has nothing to do with player development, just that there list is talented, i dont know why you bother with him, it was a good discussion, and a good read til the constant mentions of talented lists.

Look who has come on stronlgy this year at Port.
Westhoff, Rodan, Boak, Chaplin, Ebert, Motlop.

Ebert, Motlop, Rodan, and Chaplin, have developed so much this year, easily there best years.

Plus Westhoff and Boak, first year players who have had amazing years.

Credit to Port and there coaching staff.

At Port its not all about two Cornes, and two Burgoynes. 3 of them had poor nights against West Coast remember that, and they still won.

[rodgerfox]

The year before Sydney and their depth.

.

er pardon???

When have I said that depth was the reason for the swan's flag????

You are making this up.

Oh that's right, it was their 'tactics' and 'modern game plan'.

Laughable.

[rodgerfox]

When are you going to cotton on to the fact Rodger that a club has to do many things well to win a flag...and not just the one point??????


If you can gain an edge in one area...it can give you an advantage...and perhaps make up for a weakness in another....




The Cats and PA are in the GF this year because BOTH have down MANY things well....

Well fricken derrrr.

Fair dinkum.

Next your going to tell us all in a 5000 word essay that the sky is blue.


It doesn't matter how many things you do well, if you get injuries then you don't win the flag.

Full stop.

I wonder what your flavour of the month will be next? I suppose it depends on who wins next week.

[rodgerfox]

Where was Williams' brilliantly developed players last year when his guns were injured?


.

Williams builta team that domianted the AFL for several years...and then won the flag.


PA have a ruthless culture of EXPECTING to always be successful and to regularly win premierhips.


After they won a flag he tooka cold hard look at his team.....and started restructuring it to win their next flag....

Frogshyt.

There are 11 premiership players in the team.

Those 11 players were the ones (minus Wanganeen and Carr) who were the reason they won the flag in 04.

They've added a few good ones, and a few average ones - nothing more than anyone else has really done.

As to Williams being a very good developmenmt and teaching coach....most of the footballers or coaches interviewed on Williams will remark on Williams being exceptional in this area. You would have it that they are all wrong...and that you are right.

You are entitled to your view......but I hold another and that this aspect is one in which Williams excells in.

I'm sure he is a good teacher, that's why I said he's a very good coach.

However I don't believe it's the reason for their success.

He didn't mastermind a restructure after their flag. They have simply stuck to what gained them their success and built around the same core players.

Yet, when they weren't available - they couldn't compete. Like everyone else.

[rodgerfox]

He can't any team that makes a Grand Final has a taletned list that is all, has nothing to do with player development, just that there list is talented, i dont know why you bother with him, it was a good discussion, and a good read til the constant mentions of talented lists.

What the???

You've missed the point entirely.

They have an awesome list.

When it wasn't available last year, they didn't make the 8. When it was available this year, they did.


The comp is so even these days, it comes down to two things -

Luck.
Injuries.

Since the inception of the draft took effect, the teams with the best injury runs have been the successful ones.

It's as simple as that.

Williams is a great developer - yet with our poor list management, no rookies, no tactics, no pace, no rucks etc. etc. we would have won the flag in 04 and 05 and probably gone close again this year.

My point is, that SR with all his bull droppings theories on over complicating what is a very basic game - is full of shiit.

[markinUSA]

I made a mistake earlier... got my players mixed up.

It was Kristian Bardsley, not Caydn Beetham, whose jaw was broken.

I was thinking of a player who promised a lot, didn't quite deliver, surname started with B. Sorry.

Apologies for any confusion.

[Teflon]

Riewoldt, Ball, Dal Santo are stars - they were ALWAYS gonna be stars as they have the natural talent for 2.

Rubbish.

You realise how many highly talented kids have not made the grade? Top ten draft picks who are languishing in lower leagues? Go through all the drafts and for every superstar there are twenty who haven't realised their potential.

Talent, no matter how immense it may seem, needs to be nurtured. Players who are in their formative years as AFL footballers need to be taught, developed, disciplined or they become the next Ashley Sampi or Kepler Bradley.

And conversely, you might get a player like Justin Westoff, highly unfancied (pick 71), taken by a club with the right people around him to allow his talent, as raw as it is, to flourish.

Maybe Caydn Beetham, in different surroundings under a different coach who was able to reach him and get the best out of him, could've played 200 games and been an All-Australian.

To say that a player was ALWAYS going to be a star is ridiculous. Some players have a better chance due to their attitude and their ability to learn, for sure, but a lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes with every champion. There isn't a single coach in the universe who would disagree with what I'm saying.

Mate IF you reckon Thomas markedly improved Riewoldt beyond what he was always gonna be as a player and want to compare him to Caydn Beetham - your beyond help.

But let me guess.....the o/s trips/junkets made him a more "rounded" individual....ppplleeeaasee....

Mark Williams DEVELOPS players cause he understand the game - not in a wishy washy "belief cloud" manner....but in a technical sense that he is able to translate to up and coming players AND supposed has-beens.

BIG DIFFERENCE - between him and man manager Grant......lucky for us I believe Lyon IS has an astute technical understanding of the game....he just needs some time.

The talent was there with Roo, his ability was plain to see. However, you can have all the talent in the world but it means nothing unless it's nurtured properly. It can't be taken for granted. To become the player that Roo has become he needed to learn values, ethics, belief and it needed to be ingrained into his head.

They say 90% of the game is played above the shoulders. You can be the most gifted athlete in the world but you may not be the most focussed. In those circumstances you cannot underestimate the role a coach has in developing that aspect of a players game. Youngsters are impressionable and in the wrong environment a player without the necessary mental tools may struggle and therefore would need special attention.

GT had a massive impact on Roo not only as a footballer but as a person which is probably why they remain extremely close to this day. If you asked Roo who has had the biggest influence on his career you know what the answer would be.

Not saying that Roo couldn't have been as good a player had he gone to another club but there is always that possibility.

Nick Riewoldt was also selected by st kilda because of his outstanding leadership qualities and mature attitude - much like Chris Judd...smart guy. Sorry you can tell me all day how Grant "instilled his values" blah blah blah ....and I will point all day to his upbringing and his parents..........itd be interesting meeting the Angwins to compare...

As for developing him as a FOOTBALLER on field - spare me will ya?

I reckon IF Mark Williams had Nick Riewoldt at Port hed be - bar Browne or Pavlich or anyone - THE BEST chf in the comp. His kicking yips under Thomas werent getting any better - infact they got worse.......to me this year he looked to be finding some rythym in that area....that may not be all Ross Lyon...but it sure as hell wasnt Thomas.

Man manager......pffft...

[vacuous space]

I reckon the thing that should be learned from Port is not to hold onto crap players for too long. They've delisted something like 16 players the last two seasons. They took 8 players in last year's draft.

Draft early, draft often. Don't hold onto players who haven't shown much improvement hoping for a miraculous improvement.

[Teflon]

I reckon the thing that should be learned from Port is not to hold onto crap players for too long. They've delisted something like 16 players the last two seasons. They took 8 players in last year's draft.

Draft early, draft often. Don't hold onto players who haven't shown much improvement hoping for a miraculous improvement.

Thats is absolutely IT in a nutshell. BUT its not only the dud players we are TO SLOW to recognise - its also players who IMO we are afraid to make the hard decisions on. I heard Port CEO on radio recently saying this exact thing - they make tough calls - sometimes early BUT atm they are more oftenm than not getting it right. They move Barry Brooks on very quickly (a highly rated draft pick) - we hang on...for something....anything.........5 yrs on...still hanging on....

Its what makes me laugh bout this joint sometimes - we put players on a pedestal - we do NOT know how to make a hard decision.
See lame Dan Warna posts for more examples.

You wanna win a GF - you have to be smart and ruthless and prepared to put up to get.