Seb Ross

[The_Dud]

Pretty sure Ross himself has put it there in black and white, his short kicking is good and his long kicking has been poor.

The eyeball test confirms this.

Not sure how either of those things are up for debate. Good job on his part by realising this and trying to work around it.

[BarryGrogan]

Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

That's not really true.

I stated a while ago that in the context of being an elite offensive midfielder, Ross can't kick.

The article literally said the same thing. He can't kick well enough to be damaging by foot, so he's going to focus on getting it to blokes that can.


As I said - he's not an elite offensive mid, cause he can't kick. Elite offensive mids need to be able to kick both short, and long. He's literally admitted that he can't do both.


We knew this. For some reason, Cho didn't. He kept playing him as an offensive mid which was counter productive to the team.

As I also said, Ross was an elite defensive mid. Fortunately, it looks as though he'll be back in that role this season.

Absolutley it is, the more you post on the matter the more you illustrate my point.

I don't think you have a point.

You just seem to like to hang s*** on other posters.

I think I've presented many factual points today that highlight how you misinterpreted Sebby's comments. You have a habit of doing that and you only have to go to the discussion we had on Google to know you run your mouth off half cocked like the exclusive holder of knowledge, and when subsequently found to be wrong you go all Donald Trump like.

The fact of the matter today is you are not acknowledging that Sebby says in the article he is a good short kick whereas you would have everyone believe your version which is just plain alternate facts. That's my point, it's factual and non distorted.

?

Are you trying to be funny?

Not a single word of that is close to true.

[Secret Kiel]

Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

That's not really true.

I stated a while ago that in the context of being an elite offensive midfielder, Ross can't kick.

The article literally said the same thing. He can't kick well enough to be damaging by foot, so he's going to focus on getting it to blokes that can.


As I said - he's not an elite offensive mid, cause he can't kick. Elite offensive mids need to be able to kick both short, and long. He's literally admitted that he can't do both.


We knew this. For some reason, Cho didn't. He kept playing him as an offensive mid which was counter productive to the team.

As I also said, Ross was an elite defensive mid. Fortunately, it looks as though he'll be back in that role this season.

Absolutley it is, the more you post on the matter the more you illustrate my point.

I don't think you have a point.

You just seem to like to hang s*** on other posters.

I think I've presented many factual points today that highlight how you misinterpreted Sebby's comments. You have a habit of doing that and you only have to go to the discussion we had on Google to know you run your mouth off half cocked like the exclusive holder of knowledge, and when subsequently found to be wrong you go all Donald Trump like.

The fact of the matter today is you are not acknowledging that Sebby says in the article he is a good short kick whereas you would have everyone believe your version which is just plain alternate facts. That's my point, it's factual and non distorted.

?

Are you trying to be funny?

Not a single word of that is close to true.

As Donald likes to say, read the Transcript.

Time to move on Baz.

It's been a good discussion and only increases the interest in Sebby and his season ahead and that's a good thing.

Who knows, we find out about the captain on Tuesday, could it be Sebby.

[BarryGrogan]

As Donald likes to say, read the Transcript.

Time to move on Baz.

It's been a good discussion and only increases the interest in Sebby and his season ahead and that's a good thing.

Who knows, we find out about the captain on Tuesday, could it be Sebby.

I have read the transcript. I've even quoted it for you.

Yet you keep this foolishness up?

[To the top]

A thread on Ross and his disposal - and I missed it!!

What confuses me is that on a couple of occasions Ross has hit up a forward in minimal space - but those occasions are rare, unfortunately

Two way rubbing is a problem as well

Plus 20 goals in 120 games

Plus exclusive left foot

[whiskers3614]

Need a new whipping boy now Newnes has gone!

[Joffa Burns]

Two way rubbing is a problem as well

Haven't got the intestinal fortitude to run that one through urban dictionary

[Secret Kiel]

Two way rubbing is a problem as well

Haven't got the intestinal fortitude to run that one through urban dictionary

That is gold, I'm using that as my new term for being a banker.

[Wayne42]

Two way rubbing is a problem as well

Haven't got the intestinal fortitude to run that one through urban dictionary

Does one get an end result for his two way rubbing ?

[Harves Man]

I wasn’t happy with my long kicking. Last year I tended to kick it off my knee or shin a little bit because I’m just trying to boot the cover off it,” the Saints midfielder said. (I was told to kick it long, so we could try and trap it in and just keep blazing away)

“Halfway through last year I was just having an issue with my inside 50 kicking and it was all to do with the longer entries. (I couldn't do what the coach was asking)

“I sat down with Brendon Lade, we worked out a way I could be more efficient for the team by playing within my realms. (Let's get rid of Richo) I’m a good short kick and it’s beneficial for the team a lot of the time to keep the ball in possession. (Rather than this kick and hope s*** we'd been instructed to dish up for years now)

“You’ve just got to learn to work with what you’ve got and be able to manipulate certain situations to your advantage. (I'm not a natural footballer but I'm a great athlete) Obviously, I’m just trying to hit the short option and swim between my flags."(It will be a relief to actually think about what I'm doing rather than play relentlessly to a plan my Grandma could defend).

I genuinely laughed my head off at this post - especially the last bit. Many thanks

[Scollop]

Stats have been... and will ALWAYS be the lazy way to cast votes for bog

I'd rather a guy who can take 1 contested mark per quarter or kick 2-3 clutch goals per game than a guy who picks up 30 possessions and 15-20 of those are handball receives

Sebby deserves credit for his consistency. ALL awards and medals are always going to be subjective as far as voting is concerned

There's too many people who get influenced by poor judges...very vanilla coaches...or tossers in the media imo

Last month I was watching quite a few games from 2017 and coincidentally heard something interesting during a Friday night game.

This was one of many Friday and Saturday night games that we had that year and which were telecast on channel 7 in 2017

Interestingly....there is a bloke who commentates on channel 7 who is related to Sebby. Interestingly there is a bloke called Bruce on channel 7 who loves stats and loves to rabbit on and use hyperbole at every opportunity

Bruce claimed Sebby had come of Age. Interestingly... in the rounds before this match, most commentators and most of the forumites on Saintsational had Dylan in front on the voting for player of the year and also with votes for coaches association and other competitions it was Jack Steven and Dylan Roberton leading the votes...have a look and have a listen to Bruuuuuucceyyy...just for a laugh.



It was Round 7...and this is where the legend of Sebby was born. How could the listeners and the sheeple not take notice of this 'woooonderfulll' new young talent.

Fair Dinkum!! They try and figure out who they should give votes to or who gets the Tissot Watch so they frantically check the stats in the last quarter and pluck out a name

I usually watch a replay even if I've gone to a match...and preferrably with the volume off

Interestingly...a lot of the votes on Saintsational were very mixed for Round 7 2017. I reckon most people who watched the TV broadcast and heard Brucey probably also went with Seb as best on ground

and of course they are also the people who mostly look at raw stats rather than a player's influence on a win or a loss...a bit like the misleading numbers you get with fantasy points/supercoach etc.

[Harves Man]

Stats have been... and will ALWAYS be the lazy way to cast votes for bog

I'd rather a guy who can take 1 contested mark per quarter or kick 2-3 clutch goals per game than a guy who picks up 30 possessions and 15-20 of those are handball receives

Sebby deserves credit for his consistency. ALL awards and medals are always going to be subjective as far as voting is concerned

There's too many people who get influenced by poor judges...very vanilla coaches...or tossers in the media imo

Last month I was watching quite a few games from 2017 and coincidentally heard something interesting during a Friday night game.

This was one of many Friday and Saturday night games that we had that year and which were telecast on channel 7 in 2017

Interestingly....there is a bloke who commentates on channel 7 who is related to Sebby. Interestingly there is a bloke called Bruce on channel 7 who loves stats and loves to rabbit on and use hyperbole at every opportunity

Bruce claimed Sebby had come of Age. Interestingly... in the rounds before this match, most commentators and most of the forumites on Saintsational had Dylan in front on the voting for player of the year and also with votes for coaches association and other competitions it was Jack Steven and Dylan Roberton leading the votes...have a look and have a listen to Bruuuuuucceyyy...just for a laugh



It was Round 7...and this is where the legend of Sebby was born. How could the listeners and the sheeple not take notice of this 'woooonderfulll' new young talent.

I usually watch a replay even if I've gone to a match. I usually vote after watching the replay. I still didn't have Seb as bog after watching the game against GWS

Interestingly...a lot of the votes on Saintsational were very mixed for Round 7. I reckon most people who watched the TV broadcast thought Seb was best on ground in Round 7

and of course they are also the people who mostly look at raw stats rather than a player's influence on a win or a loss...a bit like the misleading numbers you get with fantasy points/supercoach etc.

Great post, Scolly. I only watched around half of the above quarter and it is a sad reminder of how much we're going to miss "the boy from Lorne" - he both gets us out of trouble and back into goal kicking so many times.

[Scollop]

As a side note I find it amusing fans place all of the blame on coaches without knowing the work being done by coaches to modify a players game.

The criticism is levelled at the coach because the player is rewarded with B&F's for running hard and touching the ball a lot. No need to punish him but dont farking reward him if he is failing to improve or take instruction on modifying his game.
Having said that, Seb, an average player has certainly worked hard in a lot of areas to improve. Maybe the messages on The game plan and where and how long to kick where to blame.

So I take it you believe Seb's B&F was not earnt or deserved but rather gifted by the coach. Interesting.
So who was robbed of the B&F in your mind.

Two B and F"s and one runner up in the past three years proves the stupididity of certain posts.

I think Seb's biggest detractors are those who wrote him off in his earlier years or called for him to be traded.

They now downplay his achievements and skills to try and justify their earlier held opinions. They can't admit, even to themselves, that they were dead wrong.

I think the biggest issue the internet and social media has is people don't take the time to read then comprehend, and then make considered input without an emotive bias. Take the article on Sebby for example, some posters interpreted Sebby as admitting he was a poor kick. He absolutely didn't say that, in fact he said he was a good short kick and outlined the technical issues with his long kick.

So I think you are right Saynta, some poster are justifying thier own mindsets.

I totally agree with you...well...you’re on the right track...sort of

I think most people like to be told how to think because most of them don’t know how to think for themselves. The media tycoons and politicians understand that most people just don’t know how to think for themselves and they exploit and take advantage until they’re usually found out in one way or another

If Bruce or Lingy or Darcehole or Dwaynepipe tell us it’s true it must be!

Why is it that 30 touches from a midfielder are more beneficial to a team than a guy who takes 5 contested marks and kicks 3 goals but only has 10 possessions for a whole game? Why is it that a guy like Jimmy Webster nearly decapitates his head at times for the sake of team when he spoils mark after mark and yet he gets no credit on the stat sheet as far as Bruce is concerned? I value a bone crunching tackle from Gears 5 times more than I do some dinky possessions from a mid who at times receives the footy and shins it to the boundary or kicks it blindly out of congestion or out from a centre bounce when clearly it is more than a 50/50 chance that the opposition will get that crappy kick.

The reason that people were ‘aware’ of how well Seb was playing was because they were being ‘told’ how well he is playing in 2017 by the media and in particular by Bruce and co. who were sucking up Timmy Watson’s arse because he is their colleague and one of the most senior power brokers among the channel seven commentators. Get on Timmy’s side if you want to be in the good books and what better way than to pump up the nephew. After all, the nephew did perform admirably and the stats are their as a back up. Maybe it’s the stats alone and the sucking up is just an added bonus...who knows

All I know is that if the media tell you he is good and best on ground for St Kilda then who are we to argue...right?

I challenge anyone here to watch a few games from early and mid season 2017 and just turn the volume down and watch Seb’s possessions versus a guy like Membrey or Carlisle or Joey Montagna or Josh Bruce or even Jack Newnes. Some of the games had some outstanding team performances and some brilliant individual performances and yet in most of them you had sheeple giving Sebby the top votes.

No one would have thought it possible that Jack Steele would get best on ground against Freo over at Freo because Jack was dropped several times by Richo and he was making his return into the senior line up that week. Steele made a lunging tackle that turned the game for us with only seconds to go in the 3rd quarter. Freo were already a goal up and Steele stopped a Freo player in his tracks after a game saving effort that would have had the Freo supporters urging their lads home and would have given Freo a two goal lead heading into the last quarter. Jack had about 10 tackles and about 20-25 touches that day. No way would you give him bog when an expert like his coach doesn’t even rate him best 22. What a croc!!

Countless times in games we had guys like Carlisle and Robertson setting us up for wins and I reckon Dylan’s ability to spot a target and his intercepts, tackles, his spoils and his contested possessions, his marking and especially his offensive plays were worth twice as much as each touch that was gifted to some of the mids

[Secret Kiel]

I value

This statement is the genisis for all subjectivity and debate about how to win a game of AFL.

Coaches create the attributes and assign value to the elemements and attributes they believe will win them a game. They probably dont align with the value system of most fans and let's be honest, Bruce and Lingy probably keep it simple for a reason.

Data collection and analytics is used by coaches to obtain feedback on the value system.

You can't have one without the other at the elite level.

So once we understand this we acknowledge it's difficult to know exactly what it is the coaches value and what stats they value.

I think most agree the stats used by the media are only for public consumption.

As a side note the magic currently happening behind the curtain at the club is at the cutting edge and worlds best practice with regards to stats. Algorithms and machine learning are things you wont hear BR talking publically about any time soon, but rest assured he is accessing the technology as a coaching tool.

[Scollop]

I don’t value what the former head coach used to value...do you?

[Secret Kiel]

I don’t value what the former head coach used to value...do you?

I only look at the rear viewing mirror when required.

[skeptic]

Cough

[Goose is king]

The problem with Ross is he is in our top 5 players. If he was our 15th best player he would be a premiership player who we love.

[The Fireman]

The problem with Ross is he is in our top 5 players. If he was our 15th best player he would be a premiership player who we love.