Lenny Hayes role is not, and never has been "shovel". Lenny Hayes is one of the most creative mids we have. He's one of the best line breakers we have. The undisputed fact that he goes inside and wins his own ball doesn't in any way detract from that.SainterK wrote:I am not over simpifying it at all, I said it's a huge part of modern footy, but said clearances and being a part of a scoring chain are both massive components as well.BAM! (shhhh) wrote:This is a massive over simplification. Goals kicked is a terrible way to assess midfielders.SainterK wrote:
I agree, but only if the inside types can be creative....
The reality is, that in 09 Lenny and Ball combined for 8 goals, 8!!!
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I too hope Armo can rotate through the midfield, but he needs to kick a few, perhaps even rest forward at times.
It doesn't matter at all where your teams goals come from - only that they come consistently. The 2009 Saints were 4th in the league in Goals for, and posted the best defense in the history of the 22 round-16 team competition, and "the reality" is that Ball and Hayes contributed 8 goals?
The reality is that their "8 goals" were an utter irrelevancy to the 2009 Saints.
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Ball didn't fair much better this year, he only kicked 7, I don't see how saying kicking goals isn't either he or Lennys strong suit makes me an over simplifier of things?
I have no probs with Lenny being an inside midfielder and dedicating his enitre role to that, Collingwood would have no issue Luke dedicating his entire role to that, but I think the next guy that helps us inside needs to do more than that.
You don't agree, that's cool, it's an interesting discussion.
Measuring "creativity" by goals scored just doesn't work, and trying to do so over-simplifies.
Hayes has 217 contested possessions (i.e. Hayes is the player who takes possession of a disputed ball or "steals" possession from the opposition) against 465 uncontested (he receives the ball from a teammate through either handball or kick). That means across the season, about 1/3 of his stats are "shovel" (certainly meets the criteria for inside). He's got a 50/50 kick to handball ration and a 70% overall efficiency...
It's fairly fundamental then: 19 uncontested touches a game, and if we can assume a large potion of his 14 handballs a game are getting used up by his 9 contested possessions a game, that means Lenny Hayes is gut running to receive and kick the ball on the run... and if Hayes contested disposal conforms to league averages, it's pretty likely that to get to an overall of 70%, he's doing it well too.
In a nutshell, in designating him as a "spade" because of low goal totals, you're ignoring (at least) 2/3s of his touches of the football, in 3/4s of the ground. If that's not an over-simplification, what is it?
