Riewoldt - decisions, decisions

SaintHomer · Post: # 850642Post **SaintHomer** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:10pm

I'm really interested in hearing others thoughts about what we do with Riewoldt going forward. This has to be treated as hypothetical because I have no factual information, but I think its creates a talking point and i think it has some merit.

At present, i believe he is the best CHF in the game who's strength is his run for a guy that size and marking abilities. As we know, he literally runs his opponent off his feet.

But I can see a problem and that is his knee. Now I am not professing to be in the know or a doctor of anything, but clearly it is giving it some grief. I think it would be safe to say that he can't play the way he does for his entire career, but its obvious the team gets more benefit from him the way he currently plays.

1. Leave him playing CHF which he could do for another 3 years to have a go at getting that elusive premiership but at the risk of a shorter career

2. Play him out of the square in order to prolong his career, but where he'll be less effective (but still good)

Thoughts?

Thinline · Post: # 850643Post **Thinline** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:15pm

Sign Bradshaw for two years and play Roo on a wing.

SaintHomer · Post: # 850648Post **SaintHomer** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:19pm

Thinline wrote:Sign Bradshaw for two years and play Roo on a wing.

thanks for that... obviously didn't like my topic.

it'd be better if you didn't post in that case... but that's just me.

Thinline · Post: # 850652Post **Thinline** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:30pm

You've taken it the wrong way.

Perhaps I could have posed it as a question reather than a statement.

Sorry.

I like the topic.

I was just offering a similar discussion point from a diff angle.

Fact is I agree that Roo's body is a real concern - he'll need to be managed more and more form here on - aand we need another forward option to make up for the excessive demands placed on our good skipper.

Prob is Kosi is not agile enough to be a lead up target and Gwilt, Gardiner C, and christ knows however many others don't ever seem to have much of an impact when they are given the third target/ substitute target role.

I can't see him out of the square, but I can see him running any number of people dead in space on the wing. And his field kicking is exceptional. But who is he going to kick it to?

At the end of the day, Bradshaw may be a fanciful idea, but if we could find someone who could play in a similar vein, we'd be looking extremely versatile and potent.

saintnick12 · Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:35pm

I heard an interview in GF week with Dr Peter Bruckner (?sp), - used to work for Ess I think and now does some injury stuff on SEN. Anyway, he was saying that Nick has problems with both his knees but the one which has been giving him the most trouble, the dr said he will be having an arthroscope on that one as soon as they get back from overseas, and that it should improve greatly. He also said unfortunately its the kind of thing than will never be able to be fully fixed, but considering how he plays with it, they will keep going. Interestingly, he signed again this year until the end of 2013 - so another four full seasons. As the last year of that contract would be under the veterans list, its likely that it has been heavily back ended. The club is obviously convinced he will be able to play at an optimum level for that time.
In answer to your question, I think they should at least keep going as is for the next two years, as long as he copes with it as well as he has been. Its clearly his best position, and gives us the best oportunity to be our best. Hopefully we will win the flag in either or both of those years

. Then maybe consider playing him closer to goal after that. I suspect it will depend on who else they have coming through. Lynch??

SaintHomer · Post: # 850654Post **SaintHomer** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:36pm

thinline, i see where you are coming from, but my post was more abouts whether we continue playing him in a role that he will run himself into an early retirement vs put him in the square to prolong a career (where i still think he'll kick 60+)

i guess based on that, you're picking the former.

its an interesting scenario. its not just whats good for player v club, but also whats good for the club, having a quality player short-term v long-term.

sorry for the mixup. thought you were having a shot. i guess i see a lot of threads "hijacked" and disrespected on here... which is a shame. there's some really great thoughts/ideas when you get through the rubbish.

cheers

meher baba · Post: # 850655Post **meher baba** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:37pm

I would have thought that Riewoldt was strong enough to continue to play up forward for the rest of his career, and that this wouldn't necessarily lead to his career span being significantly shortened.

Yes, he will keep getting smashed by defenders and, yes, this will most likely lead to a continuing series of minor (and sometimes major) collision injuries, and the odd bit of concussion to boot.

But the big, career-ending sort of injuries are largely a matter of bad luck and are as likely to happen on the wing as at CHF.

I note that Riewoldt has gradually evolved into an out and out CHF over the past 3-4 seasons, but his most injury-plagued year was 2005 when he was still spending a fair bit of time further up the ground.

Once he gets towards 30, he might start to play more as a pure FF (assuming that he retains his pace and fitness): although I don't know what we are then going to do with Kosi!!

SaintHomer · Post: # 850656Post **SaintHomer** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:40pm

meher baba wrote:I would have thought that Riewoldt was strong enough to continue to play up forward for the rest of his career, and that this wouldn't necessarily lead to his career span being significantly shortened.

Yes, he will keep getting smashed by defenders and, yes, this will most likely lead to a continuing series of minor (and sometimes major) collision injuries, and the odd bit of concussion to boot.

But the big, career-ending sort of injuries are largely a matter of bad luck and are as likely to happen on the wing as at CHF.

I note that Riewoldt has gradually evolved into an out and out CHF over the past 3-4 seasons, but his most injury-plagued year was 2005 when he was still spending a fair bit of time further up the ground.

Once he gets towards 30, he might start to play more as a pure FF (assuming that he retains his pace and fitness): although I don't know what we are then going to do with Kosi!!

good points. liking the input now.

my point with his knee was moreso that the running would be doing the damage, not the bash n crash.

Beej · Post: # 850661Post **Beej** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 6:51pm

Not sure if the goalsquare is for Roo. With his knee in mind I think he needs to be more out in the open space and less in the goal-square.

I'm pretty sure it's more the landing on the knee that's troubling him.

Roo can still run all day. Even in training when he's not involved with the main group they'll leave him to do a few 100m sprints. If running was a problem they wouldn't let him do even that I don't think.

Apparently "it's structurally fine" but it can jar up.

Why does it do this, if it is structurally fine?

I've never been able to get my head around this - anyone?

And after it's jarred up, would he feel some pain when running or is it fine afterwards?

plugger66 · Post: # 850665Post **plugger66** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:02pm

Roo is a lead up FF and CHF. It is his best position for the team and him. If we had another forward he would still play in those positions. He isnt and will never be a wingman if we had Fev and Brown. One of them just wouldnt get a game.

Choppa · Post: # 850670Post **Choppa** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:20pm

Clone him, and play him in all positions.

saintnick12 · Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:21pm

OLB wrote:Not sure if the goalsquare is for Roo. With his knee in mind I think he needs to be more out in the open space and less in the goal-square.

I'm pretty sure it's more the landing on the knee that's troubling him.

Roo can still run all day. Even in training when he's not involved with the main group they'll leave him to do a few 100m sprints. If running was a problem they wouldn't let him do even that I don't think.

Apparently "it's structurally fine" but it can jar up.

Why does it do this, if it is structurally fine?

I've never been able to get my head around this - anyone?

And after it's jarred up, would he feel some pain when running or is it fine afterwards?

Dr Bruckner in the interview I mentioned above said it was a cartlidge issue and that the arthroscope would be like a clean out which would help with that. Apparently the ligaments are fine. Of course this was not a St Kilda Dr so he may be going on hearsay. As Ross has mentioned many times, they would not be risking him longterm by continuing to play him with the injury...he is too big an asset to the club for that. Hears hoping that the arthroscope helps and he gets a good preseason. His preseason match practice this year was non existent...he pretty much played himself into form in round one and took it from there.

Milan Faletic · Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:30pm

saintnick12 wrote:
OLB wrote:Not sure if the goalsquare is for Roo. With his knee in mind I think he needs to be more out in the open space and less in the goal-square.

I'm pretty sure it's more the landing on the knee that's troubling him.

Roo can still run all day. Even in training when he's not involved with the main group they'll leave him to do a few 100m sprints. If running was a problem they wouldn't let him do even that I don't think.

Apparently "it's structurally fine" but it can jar up.

Why does it do this, if it is structurally fine?

I've never been able to get my head around this - anyone?

And after it's jarred up, would he feel some pain when running or is it fine afterwards?
Dr Bruckner in the interview I mentioned above said it was a cartlidge issue and that the arthroscope would be like a clean out which would help with that. Apparently the ligaments are fine. Of course this was not a St Kilda Dr so he may be going on hearsay. As Ross has mentioned many times, they would not be risking him longterm by continuing to play him with the injury...he is too big an asset to the club for that. Hears hoping that the arthroscope helps and he gets a good preseason. His preseason match practice this year was non existent...he pretty much played himself into form in round one and took it from there.

I actually had a similar problem to Roo and I would feel a lot of pain on impact or if I had to sit in one position for too long, like driving or going to the pictures when I had to pull over ever 30 minutes or sit on the end seat of the aisle to be able to straighten my leg. Bruckner and Bartlett both worked on my knee and I was able to play again with much less pain but as an "old guy" now, I have to wear a knee pad when I'm on the ground gardening or doing anything that involves direct knee impact with the ground. However, I can still play without discomfort.

Beej · Post: # 850677Post **Beej** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:37pm

saintnick12 wrote:
OLB wrote:Not sure if the goalsquare is for Roo. With his knee in mind I think he needs to be more out in the open space and less in the goal-square.

I'm pretty sure it's more the landing on the knee that's troubling him.

Roo can still run all day. Even in training when he's not involved with the main group they'll leave him to do a few 100m sprints. If running was a problem they wouldn't let him do even that I don't think.

Apparently "it's structurally fine" but it can jar up.

Why does it do this, if it is structurally fine?

I've never been able to get my head around this - anyone?

And after it's jarred up, would he feel some pain when running or is it fine afterwards?
Dr Bruckner in the interview I mentioned above said it was a cartlidge issue and that the arthroscope would be like a clean out which would help with that. Apparently the ligaments are fine. Of course this was not a St Kilda Dr so he may be going on hearsay. As Ross has mentioned many times, they would not be risking him longterm by continuing to play him with the injury...he is too big an asset to the club for that. Hears hoping that the arthroscope helps and he gets a good preseason. His preseason match practice this year was non existent...he pretty much played himself into form in round one and took it from there.

Ah, sorry mate. Should always read before posting.

By the doctor saying it's a cartilage issue I assume he means that the cartilage is wearing away which is never a good sign.

I've mentioned this before but Ledley King an English Premier League footballer for Spurs has suffered a similar problem for longer than Roo and he does not train at all anymore.

Apparently after a game the swelling on his knee is so bad that it takes a week for it to settle down. He'll have a light 20 min run the day before a game and even then must ice his knee such is the swelling.

It seems the way his knee was managed this year will be how it'll have to be managed for the remainder of his career.

Real shame because you would think an injury like that would hamper you in some way - maybe take 10-15% off your peak ability at least.

It's almost unfair. As good as he was towards the back-end of this year, and he was brilliant, you would have to say he still had more in him but wasn't able to produce it because of his knee.

saintnick12 · Mon 19 Oct 2009 7:44pm

Fingers crossed the arthroscope will help a little bit.

I agree its hard to see him like that. But I'd rather have him at 90% than most people at 100%. I'm a massive St Nick fan (as per my sign in name), so I'm really hoping he can continue to the end of this contract and beyond. I have a two year old son I've just starting taking to the footy. I'm hoping to start taking him more the next few years. Nick's the kind of player we will talk about for years to come and I hope my son will see him enough to be able to remember how good he is.

SainterK · Post: # 850706Post **SainterK** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 8:49pm

saintnick12 wrote:Fingers crossed the arthroscope will help a little bit.

I agree its hard to see him like that. But I'd rather have him at 90% than most people at 100%. I'm a massive St Nick fan (as per my sign in name), so I'm really hoping he can continue to the end of this contract and beyond. I have a two year old son I've just starting taking to the footy. I'm hoping to start taking him more the next few years. Nick's the kind of player we will talk about for years to come and I hope my son will see him enough to be able to remember how good he is.

I am also rapt that my 2 year old is growing up in the Roo generation

Milan Faletic · Mon 19 Oct 2009 9:42pm

People forget that as the All Australian "CHF" he was our leading goalkicker ahead of the player who many people call our our FF.

He must be allowed to play his own game. He is probably the smartest footballer I have seen, has the tank of Robert Harvey, the hands of Stewart Loewe and the heart of Nathan Burke.

He doesn't need coaching, just management. When to take a "slight back seat" because Round 7 is not as important as Round 26.

I would rather a 32yo retiree with 2 premierships than a 35yo with a respectable career. I'm sure Harvs would attest to that.

Unleash the Roo.

onlooker · Post: # 850754Post **onlooker** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 10:17pm

Roo's knee(s) must be well managed for the rest of his playing career. He has said publicly that from a training/playing point of view he and the Club will just have to manage the situation as best they can. He said in the interview I heard that the cleanup will help the problem, not fix it.
I think this means that depending on how he is travelling game to game he will continue to play the key forward position but the game plan changes depending on the ground he is or isn't covering.

As others have said we need other forward options around him more than ever if we are to extend his playing career and we should have a Plan B ready in case the problem stops him occassionally. I don't think playing him in a wing type position will help a great deal as the coverage problem might be about the same (a guess).

SainterK · Post: # 850795Post **SainterK** » Mon 19 Oct 2009 11:24pm

I don't know if the medical staff are looking at ways to limit his running though, if anything they have him running even more in his preperation these days, not less...especially before a game.

saintnick12 · Mon 19 Oct 2009 11:32pm

SainterK wrote:
saintnick12 wrote:Fingers crossed the arthroscope will help a little bit.

I agree its hard to see him like that. But I'd rather have him at 90% than most people at 100%. I'm a massive St Nick fan (as per my sign in name), so I'm really hoping he can continue to the end of this contract and beyond. I have a two year old son I've just starting taking to the footy. I'm hoping to start taking him more the next few years. Nick's the kind of player we will talk about for years to come and I hope my son will see him enough to be able to remember how good he is.
I am also rapt that my 2 year old is growing up in the Roo generation

My two year old had Luke Ball's number on his back, mainly cos he could say it...lol... Not sure about that now. Oh, well, he's growing that fast, he will probably need a new jumper next year, and it will have Nick's number on it like I planned along until I was outvoted..

ace · Post: # 850846Post **ace** » Tue 20 Oct 2009 1:04am

Tommy Walsh and Riewoldt can take it in turns to run the opposition of their feet.

Milan Faletic · Tue 20 Oct 2009 1:06am

Well, let's hope that Tommy Walsh can kick straight in 2010.

bergholt · Post: # 850893Post **bergholt** » Tue 20 Oct 2009 9:03am

plugger66 wrote:Roo is a lead up FF and CHF. It is his best position for the team and him. If we had another forward he would still play in those positions. He isnt and will never be a wingman if we had Fev and Brown. One of them just wouldnt get a game.

yep. the wing doesn't exist in the modern game - it's just a spot for another two midfielders. riewoldt doesn't make sense as a generic midfielder as he's just not a clearance winner, particularly, so he's not a wingman.

saintsRrising · Tue 20 Oct 2009 12:55pm

With Hamill...his knee went bone on bone which caused him to stop playeing. Lets hope this is not what happens to Roo.

PaulieGa · Post: # 851090Post **PaulieGa** » Tue 20 Oct 2009 5:20pm

Hey guys,

Just wanted to comment about his knee jarring, yet still being structrally fine.

I did my knee last year and it's all patch up and fine now, I can do everything I did before pretty muct the same. However the one thing I have noticed is that I have lost a lot of feeling around the knee, the best way to describe it is how your skin feels after minor burns. Anyway point of the story is that occasionally I can kneel on my knee and will just get an immense pain and be unable to use the knee. But after a few minutes that pain goes and the knee is totally back to normal again.

I have a feeling that Roo may be experiencing something similar.