Footy Vs. Basketball

[clarky449]

I agree with Joffa

[Solar]

difference is there is more allowance for body contact in basketball.....

[JT]

There is more kicking in basketball now.

Basketball has banned zoning and has a 24 second shot clock.

Zoning is only banned in the NBA & even in the NBA it is allowed to a degree. Zoning is allowed in the Olympics, in Europe & in the NBL.

It had been banned in the NBA until about 5 years ago, now thy are allowed to play a modified zone.

The scary thing is, that the 3-pointer was introduced to combat 'flooding' in basketball.

Exactly as with footy, the 'flood' forced players to take shots from a lon way away from the basket. Introducing the 3-pointer gave plenty of incentive to take longger shots, and gave the defending team plenty of incentive not to flood so tight around the key.

I'm scared shiitless that the 9-pointer is the best fix for the debacle we now see as AFL footy.

9pt bulls*** wank goals SHOULD NEVER EVER be bought into the game proper.

The 3 pointer was around long before the zone........

[saintjake]

i hate it when basketball is compared to footy,
because it is always done by people who dont play one of the sports.
i love both sports
have played basketball since grade 1 and basketball since i was under 9
the games are completely different
you do need to watch all of the basketball, so you can watch when kobe gets hot and hits 10 points in 2 mins.
or to see mcgrady glide through the air, and seemingly move through the air
not all the games are decided in the last 5 mins.
you could say you only need to watch the last 5 mins of a footy match to see who wins,
its the same thing.
the skills are differnt.
peole seem to think basketball is easy. try and go out there, and shoot basket after basket constantly with a decent action.
its not as easy as its all made out to be.
footy is refered to basketball because of the zoning.
watch an NBA match and you will see they play man to man striaght up.
or they do go back to a zone, to stop the run of play,
the same as players holding the play up.
slowing it down.
its the same thing, you jsut ahve to realise its on a smaller scale.

[saintsRrising]

What are some of the factors that have changed the game???

* Coaches and players now play more thinking football...employ tactics more and actually work as TEAMS more. Watch the old replays and you will see that players used to basically just gain the ball and ten "hoof" it downfoeld hoping that someone would make it...hopefullya team-mate. There is now quite rightly HUGE attaention to your team keeping pssession of the ball. Imprtanatly too when the opposition as the ball your whole TEAM works to try nand get it back.


* Players skills are now so SO much better. Again what the old replays and the poor skill level compared to todays fooball is stark. Daicos used to bea one-off freak...now there area multitude of players than can kick freakish goals.

* Better grounds and playing conditions also play a role

* Players are fitter today and can run further and faster. This enables tactics such as flooding and rolling zones to be used. Players of yesteryear would have been burnt out by half-time.


Now YES I do miss the high mark.....one of the games great losses due to it's current rarity.....but there is also enjoyment to be had by watching your team play well...it is just that todays "well" is a different thing than in the past. There area broader set of aspects to watch in a game. They are there to see and enjoy...if one looks for them.


And as for the it being the last part that matters....if you only play well in the last 5 minutes you will never wina game of football. You have to get in the position to win in the last five minutes...

[SainterK]

Maybe you just grew out of liking footy, no big deal....and no need to find reasons to justify it.

[PJ]

Try sitting through videos of games in the 80's it's like a sedative. Some may get nostalgic, I just get bored get a beer and ring up old friends.

The game is faster and more skillfull today - we still kick (no placement kicks) handball and kick goals - simple really or at least that's what Blighty says.

Anyway it's not basketball other wise billy mildenhall would be the ref.

[Beej]

He pointed out once to a basketball fan, that there's no point in watching the whole game in basketball, you just tune into the last 5 minutes because that's when it's all decided. What happens up til then matters little.
Whereas with the footy, the entire game was of utmost importance because the last 5 minutes - unless there was only a goal in it, mattered little. the game was decided throughout the previous 115 minutes.

I've heard this a few times and I find it to be ridiculous.

I'm sure if someone worked out the ratio of close games to blowouts in either sport the results would be very similar.

If anyone finds the game boring then fair enough but to say that it's rare for a team to get out to a 15/20 point lead in the second/third quarter of a basketball game is just stupid.

And FWIW AFL has never been more exciting than it is now IMO. With skill at the level it is today, if you concede possession anywhere on the field there is a fair chance it will result in a goal. That makes the significance of each disposal absolutely crucial.

Yes, coaches are more tactically astute, line their sides up more cautiously and put the utmost of importance on possession, but that's because they're aware that if their side loses the footy, it can be transferred from one end to the other at an unbelievable pace.

Today's style of footy didn't come about because of defensive-minded tactics. IMO increased skill level forced coaches to become more defensive. It was always going to happen, just a matter of time.

A minority may complain about the brand of footy on display, but the game has never been more popular than it is today. Attendance records are smashed year after year.

[plugger66]

I cannot remember you saying how crap footy and the Saints looked last year but if you produce all those quotes I will apologise. It seems to me that you have been very negative about the Saints and the game in general since the level 2 thing. I am sorry i still love the game even if it is different to 10 years ago.

Find them yourself when you are looking for all those quotes you SAID I made saying I wanted shirtfronts and hits behind play.

I dont want an apology. I just dont like being lied about.


And dont be sorry you still love the game, you seem like the type that would drone like take anything from the AFL and put up with it.

According to your posting ethos, nobody has the right to critisise the game, the administration, the AFL, the umpires, or anything in any way shape or form. You will not allow anyone to have an alternate opinion to the ones expressed by the prevailing orthodoxy of the apperanchik.

Well heres some news. I also LOVE the game. And that is why I critisise it when the game is being corrupted and destroyed.

I lost all interest in the game last year. It became boring, and predictable. This NAB cup has been appalling and the season looks not much better.

Hows the Saints membership coming along?

Firstly I understand the Saints membership is down and even started a thread as to why. One reason is the way we play footy and have mentioned that many times last year and even suggested if that continued we could nearly have the lowest membership in the AFL.

However this doesnt mean the whole afl is like that and as I said earlier last year was rated one of the best in years and even negative Patrick Smith said that. I wouldnt be worried about a few practice games this year lets just wait at least until 2-3 rounds into the season before we give up on this great game. By the way the game doesnt seem to upsetting to many people as most memberhips are way up on this time last year as reported in the paper today.

I hope that post was cival enough and we can have a decent discussion on this.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

He pointed out once to a basketball fan, that there's no point in watching the whole game in basketball, you just tune into the last 5 minutes because that's when it's all decided. What happens up til then matters little.
Whereas with the footy, the entire game was of utmost importance because the last 5 minutes - unless there was only a goal in it, mattered little. the game was decided throughout the previous 115 minutes.

I've heard this a few times and I find it to be ridiculous.

I'm sure if someone worked out the ratio of close games to blowouts in either sport the results would be very similar.

If anyone finds the game boring then fair enough but to say that it's rare for a team to get out to a 15/20 point lead in the second/third quarter of a basketball game is just stupid.

As far as Basketball and the last 5 minutes goes, here's a piece by Bill James (father of Sabermetrics) on where the line is in college basketball (i.e. when a lead is safe):

http://www.slate.com/id/2185975/

Play with his calculator, and you need a pretty big lead to be safe with 5 minutes left in basketball.

As far as applying that to footy goes, the rule of thumb I heard and continue with is that once goals required exceeds minutes left, the game is dead. I've seen a couple of close calls on that, but never seen it broken.

As for the comparison of boring v last 5 minutes, it's pretty subjective in either case. You could say that about any close contested game in any sport... and to a real fan of that sport, you'd sound like an idiot, because it's a close, contested game that's probably most exciting to that fan.

So if someone's not a fan of footy anymore, and that's the reasoning, I think they've got it backwards.

FWIW, IMO Footy's most boring period to me had nothing to do with flooding etc. it was the free kickfest created by the kicking in danger rule. Similarly, the biggest peeve I have with the game is players headbutting opponents to get free kicks. While I'm in favour of protecting players, too many free kicks at a stoppage turns the game into a strange variation on gridiron - I like gridiron, but I don't go to an AFL game to watch it.

[Beej]

He pointed out once to a basketball fan, that there's no point in watching the whole game in basketball, you just tune into the last 5 minutes because that's when it's all decided. What happens up til then matters little.
Whereas with the footy, the entire game was of utmost importance because the last 5 minutes - unless there was only a goal in it, mattered little. the game was decided throughout the previous 115 minutes.

I've heard this a few times and I find it to be ridiculous.

I'm sure if someone worked out the ratio of close games to blowouts in either sport the results would be very similar.

If anyone finds the game boring then fair enough but to say that it's rare for a team to get out to a 15/20 point lead in the second/third quarter of a basketball game is just stupid.

As far as Basketball and the last 5 minutes goes, here's a piece by Bill James (father of Sabermetrics) on where the line is in college basketball (i.e. when a lead is safe):

http://www.slate.com/id/2185975/

Play with his calculator, and you need a pretty big lead to be safe with 5 minutes left in basketball.

You do need a pretty big lead to be safe with 5 minutes left in basketball due to the size of the court and the ease of which to score.

However, every game of basketball I've seen where the margin is 15/20 points with 5 minutes left, the game is effectively dead. Nobody would want to watch the last 5 minutes of a basketball game if a side was up by 20l.

Maybe once or twice in my entire life have I witnessed a team come back from 20 points down with 5 minutes left and I've watched a lot more basketball than the average person.

[vacuous space]

However, every game of basketball I've seen where the margin is 15/20 points with 5 minutes left, the game is effectively dead. Nobody would want to watch the last 5 minutes of a basketball game if a side was up by 20l.

According to that calculator, a 15 point lead is 44-52% safe and a 20 point lead is 91-100% safe (depending on whether you have the ball). Given his definition of 'safe', I think that means you're unlikely to see a team come back from 15 points down with 5 minutes left and you won't ever see a team come back from 20 points down with 5 minutes left.

Given that a 15 point lead is 5 (at least) scores and a 20 point lead is (at least) 7 scores, I don't see this varying greatly from footy. If a football team is down by 5 goals with five minutes to go, it's likely the fans of the losing side are headed for the exits. If they're down by 7 goals with 5 minutes to play, they're likely already gone. In either case, their team isn't going to win.

[EB]

There's not enough black guys in the NBL for it to be worth watching imo

[Beej]

Everyone tune into this NBL Grand Final.

Last quarter just underway, Dragons by 19. Game will be decided right here, best part!!

[Beej]

21 points the difference now, less than 8 mins remaining.

Heading towards the business end!!