Just be your bloody self

[Solar]

So an article which starts "Many in the MEDIA were muttering "Your mate doesn't say much. We'll get him on the way out, We don't trust him" morphs into this Sydney v. St Kilda rubbish.

Frankly, as a St Kilda supporter, I could not care what the media say or think because most of them watch the games they are assigned to cover thru the bottom of a glass - hence an article which starts with the foregoing is nothing more and nothing less than insulting.

What I am interested in is St Kilda having consistent success and building a model that can deliver consistent success ie; positioning itself for a real crack on a consistent basis and delivering the ultimate reward because we are always around the mark.

The game changes, and Hawthorn were successful in 2008 not because they had the best team player wise but because they devised a tactic - as have other sides before them and as will other sides in the future, including in 2009.

The Coach brings that element - and he is responsible for the support staff including the support staff who keep the players on the park - because having your best players on the park gives you a better chance.

So we concentrate on St Kilda, and the measure of success is there each and every week during the season - because you either win or you lose.

The concentration on the media saying Lyon said little to them or on what "style" of game Lyon wants St Kilda to play are side shows.

We want to go each week and watch our team out-perform the opposition including all the way to Grand Final day.

We learn when we win.

We learn when we lose.

We learn about our players each and every minute they are on the field, win or lose.

And we get better and better including by being able to negate our opposition and any "game plan" they may invoke.

I would be more interested in an article where Lyon covers what he sees as our strengths, where he sees we are line ball, where he sees that we are vunerable and what our options are.

But, equally, I do not expect to see such an article because all we really want the opposition to know is what is disclosed by how we perform on the field.

The only comparative worth commenting on is the comparative on the score board between ourselves and the opposition each and every week.

If you are winning the ego driven clowns in the media can not "get you on the way out".

cannot agree at all... the media spin their tales and the public believe it. One key to be able to coach a side to a flag is the ability to keep getting the club to contract you long term. Clarkson was able to mould a positive spin to keep himself in the job whilst he developed a youn side. Your telling me a club who has sacked a finals experienced coach before wouldn't sack someone again.

the whole "was lucky to make the top 4" crap spun by the media was gobbled up by the public. Results don't always matter, winning enough games to make the top 4 is not good enough. It's how the media spin the result. How is it that richmond and carlton, both who have no seen the finals in nearly a decade are the toast of the town... on results? no, it's all media spin.

I totally agree with you TTT but in reality you need to manipulate the public and media as a senior coach. it's what sheedy did when the dons looked like finishing his coaching career.

Will be interesting to see how lyon goes this year

[Teflon]

So an article which starts "Many in the MEDIA were muttering "Your mate doesn't say much. We'll get him on the way out, We don't trust him" morphs into this Sydney v. St Kilda rubbish.

Frankly, as a St Kilda supporter, I could not care what the media say or think because most of them watch the games they are assigned to cover thru the bottom of a glass - hence an article which starts with the foregoing is nothing more and nothing less than insulting.

What I am interested in is St Kilda having consistent success and building a model that can deliver consistent success ie; positioning itself for a real crack on a consistent basis and delivering the ultimate reward because we are always around the mark.

The game changes, and Hawthorn were successful in 2008 not because they had the best team player wise but because they devised a tactic - as have other sides before them and as will other sides in the future, including in 2009.

The Coach brings that element - and he is responsible for the support staff including the support staff who keep the players on the park - because having your best players on the park gives you a better chance.

So we concentrate on St Kilda, and the measure of success is there each and every week during the season - because you either win or you lose.

The concentration on the media saying Lyon said little to them or on what "style" of game Lyon wants St Kilda to play are side shows.

We want to go each week and watch our team out-perform the opposition including all the way to Grand Final day.

We learn when we win.

We learn when we lose.

We learn about our players each and every minute they are on the field, win or lose.

And we get better and better including by being able to negate our opposition and any "game plan" they may invoke.

I would be more interested in an article where Lyon covers what he sees as our strengths, where he sees we are line ball, where he sees that we are vunerable and what our options are.

But, equally, I do not expect to see such an article because all we really want the opposition to know is what is disclosed by how we perform on the field.

The only comparative worth commenting on is the comparative on the score board between ourselves and the opposition each and every week.

If you are winning the ego driven clowns in the media can not "get you on the way out".

cannot agree at all... the media spin their tales and the public believe it. One key to be able to coach a side to a flag is the ability to keep getting the club to contract you long term. Clarkson was able to mould a positive spin to keep himself in the job whilst he developed a youn side. Your telling me a club who has sacked a finals experienced coach before wouldn't sack someone again.

the whole "was lucky to make the top 4" crap spun by the media was gobbled up by the public. Results don't always matter, winning enough games to make the top 4 is not good enough. It's how the media spin the result. How is it that richmond and carlton, both who have no seen the finals in nearly a decade are the toast of the town... on results? no, it's all media spin.

I totally agree with you TTT but in reality you need to manipulate the public and media as a senior coach. it's what sheedy did when the dons looked like finishing his coaching career.
Will be interesting to see how lyon goes this year

I really think thats an absolute sideshow - the best way to manipulate public/media is through good results and IMHO its what TTT makes a valid point in saying.

Al Clarkson was loathed by many in the media....hes now the darling of all.....why's that?

WIN.

[To the top]

Solar, with all due respect, where exactly did "your" (you're) "telling me that a club who has sacked a finals coach will not do so again" come from?

It seems certain have agendas regardless of what is written - and I am left to assume that you are a Thomas supporter.

Every one is judged on performance (except CEO's who mis-manage their Companies such that employees are made redundant, but that is another story) and, to use an old line, "you are only as good as your last performance".

So coaches go, as does everyone else, for one resaon or another - and some make an art form of re-inventing themselves in the eye of the public aka the likes of Sheedy, Wallace etc. etc. and they last a little longer in the caper than some others.

The reason Thomas was sacked by the Board was that he did not embrace the directives of the Board in regards the construction of the Football Department - despite specific instruction.

I do not imagine Lyon (or many others) would make the same monumental mistake.

St Kilda FC has undergone a massive change in personnel over the past few years, from the Board to the Administration to the Coach and the Coaching and conditioning panel. Even to the VFL affiliate.

And the playing list has also undergone massive change, with Riewoldt now the senior player at the Club (and, in my view, there is an unhealthy reliance upon his sublime skills and work ethic which has to be addressed to progress team performance).

We are now building around those Draft picks we have had since Riewoldt and Koschitzke were drafted - no longer do we have the Harvey's, the Thompson's and you can name more than me.

We now have a bunch of kids (with apologies to Max) fitting in with the post Riewoldt and Koschitzke drafted kids.

And we missed out over a couple of years in terms of adding youth to our squad, so that has added pressure to those drafted over the past 2 years (including Rookies).

That is why this season is absolutely critical - we need the kids to stand beside the core we know we have - not just for 2009 but for 2009 onwards.

2004 and 2005 are long, long since gone. Those years are now totally irrelevant.

Lyon, as Coach, is responsible for the education of those kids we need to stand up - and most of that education we do not see because it is done out of our gaze.

When a kid runs onto the park for his first AFL game, we get a glimpse - and we look to identify that little effort which says "this kid has got something".

It is a process.

Lyon will be there for as long as he satisfies the Board that he is delivering to the benefit of St Kilda FC - and, hopefully, regardless of what anyone in the media or anyone still mourning the loss of Thomas may contribute.

So get behind him.

Because he is the Coach of St Kilda FC.

A St Kilda FC which is re-building.

[Solar]

Solar, with all due respect, where exactly did "your" (you're) "telling me that a club who has sacked a finals coach will not do so again" come from?

It seems certain have agendas regardless of what is written - and I am left to assume that you are a Thomas supporter.

I'm neither a supporter or detractor of GT but it's an example of how results don't mean everything.

Every one is judged on performance (except CEO's who mis-manage their Companies such that employees are made redundant, but that is another story) and, to use an old line, "you are only as good as your last performance".

So coaches go, as does everyone else, for one resaon or another - and some make an art form of re-inventing themselves in the eye of the public aka the likes of Sheedy, Wallace etc. etc. and they last a little longer in the caper than some others..

can't agree, if that was correct the football public would not be jumping up and down about how good carlton is after their terrible performance in round 22.

My point was always that a coach needs to balance the results and outcomes with developing his squad and manipulating not only the media but his employees. Tell me you have never talked our way ou of a tough spot at work to get that extra week (with the knowledge that this extra week will allow you to make the extra money, better result, job completed.) This is what I see lyon doing, as all good coaches do.

Football clubs are full of internal politics and this can be influenced by the media and others in the industry.

Anyway personally I am all for it because lyon can be a bore at interviews and does not sell memberships for the club I love.

It is a process.

Lyon will be there for as long as he satisfies the Board that he is delivering to the benefit of St Kilda FC - and, hopefully, regardless of what anyone in the media or anyone still mourning the loss of Thomas may contribute.

So get behind him.

Because he is the Coach of St Kilda FC.

A St Kilda FC which is re-building.

I am totally behind lyon, actually I believe long term he will win us a flag. The key is will he keep himself in the job long enough to do it. I'll back the club but lyon is smart enough to relise that making the media the enemy is not a clever long term tactic.

[To the top]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

[To the top]

PS: Just to show I have hobby horses too!

It was at least pleasing to see X. Clarke and Gardiner named in St Kilda's best because, as would be known, I consider both essential to St Kilda having its most competative 22 on the park.

Two competative class players who bring that competative class to the side.

So far, so good.

[bigcarl]

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

i noticed that, but they must have had two guys there.


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/ ... 42,00.html

ST KILDA captain Nick Riewoldt is a chance to make his first pre-season appearance against Richmond in Shepparton on Friday night. Riewoldt looked on as the Saints beat the Western Bulldogs by 26 points in an ugly practice match yesterday, but impressed in a full training session on Wednesday.

"He was competing. He took a speccy over a young kid. The heart was in the mouth, but it was a really good sign that's he feeling good," St Kilda coach Ross Lyon said yesterday.

"He launched and he crashed in."

Riewoldt has indicated he is close to returning after surgery to drain a cyst in his left knee.

Not even Riewoldt would have added much spark to a lacklustre hitout at Visy Park, marred by turnovers. Both sides could only produce 13 goals in total, and the Dogs managed only one after halftime.

Asked about the game not being pretty, Lyon said: "I think it's where footy's gone a bit.

"I watched a bit of Richmond-Collingwood. Everyone's pressing more, there's more zone football and it's forcing more possession.

"Everyone's still trying to crack the code."

Riewoldt's long-time forward partner Justin Koschitzke had his first full-scale hitout against the Dogs, picking up five disposals in more than 70 minutes.

Koschitzke was beaten in most one-on-one contests by Bulldog Brian Lake and finished goalless - even if he did spray two reasonably simple shots on goal.

Steven Baker made a successful return after 10 months out with a knee injury.

Former Dog Farren Ray had 25 disposals, but continues to use it by hand far more than by foot.

The experiment of playing Sam Gilbert up forward continued. He copped a tough opponent, Dale Morris, but managed to sneak two goals.

[Mr Magic]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

Spot on TTT - I've just read teh article concerned and was so incensed that I felt the need to post a comment asking if the Bulldogs played agianst anybody?
I also asked where I could find the article written from the opposition's perspective?
It will be interesting to see if they publish my comment?

Can someone more versed in these matters please explain to me what was the point of writing such a report about this particular practice match? Are they suggesting that Saonts fans have no interest in a match report?
Given that he made a point of raising who the Bulldogs were 'missing', wouldn't it be more informative to also tell teh readers who was 'missing' from the opposition? The way it reads now you could be forgiven for getting the impression that the Bulldogs were 'unlucky' because they played the game with so many 'regulars' unavailable.

ANd do we know if any of the Saints players also suffered from teh conditions, like Gilbee?

The article more resembled something you would expect to find on the Western Bulldogs website than a piece on an independant media outlet's webpage.

[plugger66]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

Spot on TTT - I've just read teh article concerned and was so incensed that I felt the need to post a comment asking if the Bulldogs played agianst anybody?
I also asked where I could find the article written from the opposition's perspective?
It will be interesting to see if they publish my comment?

Can someone more versed in these matters please explain to me what was the point of writing such a report about this particular practice match? Are they suggesting that Saonts fans have no interest in a match report?
Given that he made a point of raising who the Bulldogs were 'missing', wouldn't it be more informative to also tell teh readers who was 'missing' from the opposition? The way it reads now you could be forgiven for getting the impression that the Bulldogs were 'unlucky' because they played the game with so many 'regulars' unavailable.

ANd do we know if any of the Saints players also suffered from teh conditions, like Gilbee?

The article more resembled something you would expect to find on the Western Bulldogs website than a piece on an independant media outlet's webpage.

In there defence there was also an article on Rooy right next to the other article in the paper. It did mention a little bit about us from the practice match. Anyway who cares really. It doesnt make any difference to how we will go round one.

[stinger]

our age sponsorship might have something to do with it.....

[Mr Magic]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

Spot on TTT - I've just read teh article concerned and was so incensed that I felt the need to post a comment asking if the Bulldogs played agianst anybody?
I also asked where I could find the article written from the opposition's perspective?
It will be interesting to see if they publish my comment?

Can someone more versed in these matters please explain to me what was the point of writing such a report about this particular practice match? Are they suggesting that Saonts fans have no interest in a match report?
Given that he made a point of raising who the Bulldogs were 'missing', wouldn't it be more informative to also tell teh readers who was 'missing' from the opposition? The way it reads now you could be forgiven for getting the impression that the Bulldogs were 'unlucky' because they played the game with so many 'regulars' unavailable.

ANd do we know if any of the Saints players also suffered from teh conditions, like Gilbee?

The article more resembled something you would expect to find on the Western Bulldogs website than a piece on an independant media outlet's webpage.

In there defence there was also an article on Rooy right next to the other article in the paper. It did mention a little bit about us from the practice match. Anyway who cares really. It doesnt make any difference to how we will go round one.

Well Plugger, I for 1 care.

And the article on Rooey is immaterial for 2 reasons - it was an article on Rooey's imminent return from injury and, more importantly, IT DID NOT APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE - it was only in the print version of the paper.

The Ralph article, which was on the website, wast he only report on the practice match and as such gave absolutely no information about the Saints other than they won.
At the bottom of this Western Bulldogs 'fluff piece' there was a scorecard, Goalkickers and Best players.

Please explain how I can glean any worthwhile information about the game from that report?

[plugger66]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

Spot on TTT - I've just read teh article concerned and was so incensed that I felt the need to post a comment asking if the Bulldogs played agianst anybody?
I also asked where I could find the article written from the opposition's perspective?
It will be interesting to see if they publish my comment?

Can someone more versed in these matters please explain to me what was the point of writing such a report about this particular practice match? Are they suggesting that Saonts fans have no interest in a match report?
Given that he made a point of raising who the Bulldogs were 'missing', wouldn't it be more informative to also tell teh readers who was 'missing' from the opposition? The way it reads now you could be forgiven for getting the impression that the Bulldogs were 'unlucky' because they played the game with so many 'regulars' unavailable.

ANd do we know if any of the Saints players also suffered from teh conditions, like Gilbee?

The article more resembled something you would expect to find on the Western Bulldogs website than a piece on an independant media outlet's webpage.

In there defence there was also an article on Rooy right next to the other article in the paper. It did mention a little bit about us from the practice match. Anyway who cares really. It doesnt make any difference to how we will go round one.

Well Plugger, I for 1 care.

And the article on Rooey is immaterial for 2 reasons - it was an article on Rooey's imminent return from injury and, more importantly, IT DID NOT APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE - it was only in the print version of the paper.

The Ralph article, which was on the website, wast he only report on the practice match and as such gave absolutely no information about the Saints other than they won.
At the bottom of this Western Bulldogs 'fluff piece' there was a scorecard, Goalkickers and Best players.

Please explain how I can glean any worthwhile information about the game from that report?

You cannot but I suppose we have this website. Afterall most people think the reporters write nothing worthwhile so I dont undertstand why they read it and then write again that they said nothing worthwhile.

[Mr Magic]

I will qualify by saying I have only accessed the on-line Herald Sun report on last night's practice match against the Womb Brooms.

The article is by Ralph, who is a senior HS "journalist".

The article is totally given to the comments of a coach, who needs publicity to keep his job, offering excuses and putting the blame on his players including by listing who did not play in the game.

There is not one mention of St Kilda, let alone a St Kilda player.

When I am critical of these "journalists", this is why.

They are lazy in that they rely on what a Coach says to produce an article (do they watch the game or spend the time in a bar waiting for the obligatory Coach "press" conference?), they come with an agenda like "getting Lyon" because they "do not trust him".

Why don't they trust him?

Perhaps because he gives a few dead pan throw away lines which is Lyon's humour, and they take it for gospel, then looking like the idiots they are.

Then he asks them if they watched the game!

That is why you do not run to the tune of the media - on any subject.

Spot on TTT - I've just read teh article concerned and was so incensed that I felt the need to post a comment asking if the Bulldogs played agianst anybody?
I also asked where I could find the article written from the opposition's perspective?
It will be interesting to see if they publish my comment?

Can someone more versed in these matters please explain to me what was the point of writing such a report about this particular practice match? Are they suggesting that Saonts fans have no interest in a match report?
Given that he made a point of raising who the Bulldogs were 'missing', wouldn't it be more informative to also tell teh readers who was 'missing' from the opposition? The way it reads now you could be forgiven for getting the impression that the Bulldogs were 'unlucky' because they played the game with so many 'regulars' unavailable.

ANd do we know if any of the Saints players also suffered from teh conditions, like Gilbee?

The article more resembled something you would expect to find on the Western Bulldogs website than a piece on an independant media outlet's webpage.

In there defence there was also an article on Rooy right next to the other article in the paper. It did mention a little bit about us from the practice match. Anyway who cares really. It doesnt make any difference to how we will go round one.

Well Plugger, I for 1 care.

And the article on Rooey is immaterial for 2 reasons - it was an article on Rooey's imminent return from injury and, more importantly, IT DID NOT APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE - it was only in the print version of the paper.

The Ralph article, which was on the website, was the only report on the practice match and as such gave absolutely no information about the Saints other than they won.
At the bottom of this Western Bulldogs 'fluff piece' there was a scorecard, Goalkickers and Best players.

Please explain how I can glean any worthwhile information about the game from that report?

You cannot but I suppose we have this website. Afterall most people think the reporters write nothing worthwhile so I dont undertstand why they read it and then write again that they said nothing worthwhile.

Well sometimes I'd like to see an independant, objective opinion on what took place, so I go to the mainstream News outlets to get that.

If I wanted nothing but a Saints perspective then I would limit myself to just this website.

[Mr Magic]

It seems like a few saints fans, including at least 2 from on here, had a similar reaction to the article.
Both James Rose and myself have had 'comments' to the article published - not that it is likely to elicit a response from either Jon Ralph or the Herald Sun.

[saintbrat]

It seems like a few saints fans, including at least 2 from on here, had a similar reaction to the article.
Both James Rose and myself have had 'comments' to the article published - not that it is likely to elicit a response from either Jon Ralph or the Herald Sun.

Maybe Jon didn't like NOT being one of the reporters given Ross's phone number

would seeem caro does have it - given the number of articles written recently

[SainterK]

Oh, did we win?