Goddard on SEN just then

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Also said hard for Armo because of Ball and Hayes. Has to work harder due to this but will be a great player.

Sorry to disagree with BJ... BUT Ball and Hayes will be arounda long time.

Armo is not after their spot....but needs to play WITH them.

Harvey retiring us opened upa slot.....

...and quite frankly we need some young mids to step up and play good football to displace the like of McQualter.


Our 2008 midfield simply was not classy enough...and we need Armo, Steven etc to STEP up to become good mids to play with Ball, Hayes and Dal.

If you had a combo of Ball/Hayes/Armo in the centre, you'd have a lot of grunt, but whose the next disposal? Until last year, Hayes played the inside-out game moderately well (i.e. mix of playing in the trenches and using the ball, ala Dal Santo circa any year but '08), but was last year much more in-and-under. Luke ball is in-and-under only... and what I've seen of Armo to date leads me to believe packwork is his calling, not the next step.

Fine to have all 3 of them on the ball around the ground, but as a centre combo, that's going to struggle.

I very much see him as competing with those 2 if he wants the prime time minutes in the centre square. They're both better than him in his primary stength areas, so he ends up being part of the 2nd tier of mids.

(btw, I got what you meant by classy - all around good - and agree. I hope throwing Goddard and Gram into the mix can rectify this, but it really would be better to come from Armo, Mini, Eddy, Geary, Jones etc. Moving those 2 above guys still requires 2 of guys like Raph, Gilbo, Ray to perform as "class" players to make up the diff, and while they've all shown signs at times, none has ever (with the possible execption of Gilbo at times in '07) done so consistently over a course of 10+ games)

[sunsaint]

so I have to wait my turn...?
If I was Armo I would take excepton to what Goddard said.
I would want to be pushing a 11th year player for his position. "Im pretty good in close, I would be just as quick, Ive been working on my endurance, and I think I have better goal sense."
Also if I was Steven I would be saying it's my second year of AFL I can crack it for some games.

Here is my yeardstick: Daniel Rich up at Brissy
He will have to jump over Simon Black, Luke Power, Travis Jonstone, Troy Selwood, Rischitelli, & Tim Notting. That's a pretty good onball list, so it will be interesting to see how many games he gets over our young guns.

[sainter35]

Lynch is going to be one of those players that has a tonne of talent that can never get on the field, he had a hamstring strain at the gold coast function back in mid December, that is 2 hamstring strains just from training

He is a young player and this can happen to them. In the long run it shouldnt matter at all afterall he wasnt going to win us any games off his own boot this year.

why wouldnt it matter? he was our first round draft pick and the more games we get into him the better. So although he wont win any games off his own boot this year the more games he gets and genuine experience it may help him win a few for us next year..

a bad pick up if the case, he had better play 8-10 games this year or will be a dissappointing pick

With all due respect that's a load of rubbish.

Of course we all want to see him play as quickly as possible but he's hardly a bad pick up if he doesn't make an impact in 2009 or even 2010.

Plenty of young players are either drafted with a pre-existing injury or pick up an injury early on.

It's a shame that some people place such big expectations on young players so early.

[saintsRrising]

Sorry to disagree with BJ... BUT Ball and Hayes will be arounda long time.

Armo is not after their spot....but needs to play WITH them.

Harvey retiring us opened upa slot.....

...and quite frankly we need some young mids to step up and play good football to displace the like of McQualter.


Our 2008 midfield simply was not classy enough...and we need Armo, Steven etc to STEP up to become good mids to play with Ball, Hayes and Dal.

If you had a combo of Ball/Hayes/Armo in the centre, you'd have a lot of grunt, but whose the next disposal??

I was advocating playing all 3 in the centre together at the same time.

The days of 3 mids playing a whole game together is long long gone.

All mids are rotated...and so all 3 would not be on the ball in the centre together.

Those three would rotate through the midfield along with others...upto 10 or more in a game...and yes the three would be rotating the grunt aspect.

At times two would be on the ball together.....with receivers circling for their hard one ball.

But what we need to do is to havea series of good players rotaing through the midfield.

Too often last year we saw us lose control when our "A" team was not on the ball...with their replacements being of a much lower quality.
It was to much ofa reduction.

We need good players constantly roataing through.

All three would have benchtime.....

Ball is a handy mark when forward.
Armo seems to have the knack of being a goal kicker.

but whose the next disposal??

To Dal, Joey, Ray, Gram, CJ, X.....who would also be rotated.


A midfield is not just three players...but upto 10 or more.

[saintsRrising]

(btw, I got what you meant by classy - all around good - and agree. I hope throwing Goddard and Gram into the mix can rectify this, but it really would be better to come from Armo, Mini, Eddy, Geary, Jones etc. Moving those 2 above guys still requires 2 of guys like Raph, Gilbo, Ray to perform as "class" players to make up the diff, and while they've all shown signs at times, none has ever (with the possible execption of Gilbo at times in '07) done so consistently over a course of 10+ games)

Agree..

In 2008 we simply did not have enough very good (which is what I meant by classy) players.

We need several players to step up and improve/emerge....otherwise we will just be thereabouts again rather than playing off in the GF.

[Armoooo]

Did he mention anything about whether he is playing Sat night?

There was an article in todays H-S about him winning his local golf clubs pennant QF..and that he was playing in the Semi this sat arvo

Would indicate that he isnt playing Id say

Yeah he was actually playing against one of my best mates Aaron. It went to the 20th hole before he could break him, he is a great golfer our BJ...

Wouldn't be surprised to see him choose golf over a NAB cup match and TBH I wouldn't blame him...

[plugger66]

Did he mention anything about whether he is playing Sat night?

There was an article in todays H-S about him winning his local golf clubs pennant QF..and that he was playing in the Semi this sat arvo

Would indicate that he isnt playing Id say

Yeah he was actually playing against one of my best mates Aaron. It went to the 20th hole before he could break him, he is a great golfer our BJ...

Wouldn't be surprised to see him choose golf over a NAB cup match and TBH I wouldn't blame him...

They must pay well at pennant golf. Not sure it is his choice. Anyway he is up at the Gold Coast with the rest of the players so unless he is injured he will play Saturday night.

[maverick]

Did he mention anything about whether he is playing Sat night?

There was an article in todays H-S about him winning his local golf clubs pennant QF..and that he was playing in the Semi this sat arvo

Would indicate that he isnt playing Id say

Yeah he was actually playing against one of my best mates Aaron. It went to the 20th hole before he could break him, he is a great golfer our BJ...

Wouldn't be surprised to see him choose golf over a NAB cup match and TBH I wouldn't blame him...

They must pay well at pennant golf. Not sure it is his choice. Anyway he is up at the Gold Coast with the rest of the players so unless he is injured he will play Saturday night.

Not sure why the remuneration of pennant golf would worry BJ when he is playing club championships at Yarra.......

[plugger66]

Did he mention anything about whether he is playing Sat night?

There was an article in todays H-S about him winning his local golf clubs pennant QF..and that he was playing in the Semi this sat arvo

Would indicate that he isnt playing Id say

Yeah he was actually playing against one of my best mates Aaron. It went to the 20th hole before he could break him, he is a great golfer our BJ...

Wouldn't be surprised to see him choose golf over a NAB cup match and TBH I wouldn't blame him...

They must pay well at pennant golf. Not sure it is his choice. Anyway he is up at the Gold Coast with the rest of the players so unless he is injured he will play Saturday night.

Not sure why the remuneration of pennant golf would worry BJ when he is playing club championships at Yarra.......

What I was getting at is if he chose the golf that may be his only form of income from now on as the Saints wouldnt be to happy at all with that.

[Sobraz]

Did he mention anything about whether he is playing Sat night?

There was an article in todays H-S about him winning his local golf clubs pennant QF..and that he was playing in the Semi this sat arvo

Would indicate that he isnt playing Id say

Yeah he was actually playing against one of my best mates Aaron. It went to the 20th hole before he could break him, he is a great golfer our BJ...

Wouldn't be surprised to see him choose golf over a NAB cup match and TBH I wouldn't blame him...

Not just a great golfer, but sportsman...

Guys like Judd, and even Ball are talked about being great schoolboy sportmen... They all performed well in both the team and individual sports, but for mine BJ is the best sportsman out of the lot...

He isnt in the same 'athlete' class as those other boys, but when it comes to ball sports, BJ was superior at schoolboy level... His cricketing ability was unbelievable... Both with the bat and new ball... No surpirse to see him hit the golf ball so well... playing off 3 or 4 is brilliant!!...

classy kid....

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Sorry to disagree with BJ... BUT Ball and Hayes will be arounda long time.

Armo is not after their spot....but needs to play WITH them.

Harvey retiring us opened upa slot.....

...and quite frankly we need some young mids to step up and play good football to displace the like of McQualter.


Our 2008 midfield simply was not classy enough...and we need Armo, Steven etc to STEP up to become good mids to play with Ball, Hayes and Dal.

If you had a combo of Ball/Hayes/Armo in the centre, you'd have a lot of grunt, but whose the next disposal??

I was advocating playing all 3 in the centre together at the same time.

The days of 3 mids playing a whole game together is long long gone.

All mids are rotated...and so all 3 would not be on the ball in the centre together.

Okay, I'm with you now - while I've some reservation, it's mainly semantic.

i.e. my view is you've still got your "A" tier mid, vs a "B" tier for centre bounces - when all is well for the Saints, there's Ball, Hayes, and add one (used to be Dal, but Lyon appears to want to make a true outsider of him, and Montagna has seen progressively more time in the "a" unit)... typical win scenarios would be Ball-Hayes-out, Hayes/Ball-Dal-out, Dal-out, Hayes-out... or of course a running play. Ball isn't much for the disposal after winning the ball (i.e. end up with a short-mid length kick to a contest), and Hayes becomes much less effective at the kick if he's taken the ball off the ground himself. All 3 are good tacklers (prior to last year, Dal would always be among team leaders in this stat, though well behind Ball & Hayes who would be among league leaders).

IMO, one of the Saints issues post Thommo, Powell & Peckett has been the difficulty in finding effective "B" combinations consistently. The "A" guys generally only lose outright to the very best mids (i.e. Judd-Kerr-Cousins, Ablett-Corey-Bartel), but the "B" tier is unpredictable/unreliable.

Hopefully adding Goddard & Gram rectifies this imbalance (Goddard-Gram-Montagna/Dal/Armo certainly sounds good), however it's worth noting that as well as needing to replace that "class" in the backline, it's at this stage not 100% that they do provide equal "class" as mids.

Those three would rotate through the midfield along with others...upto 10 or more in a game...and yes the three would be rotating the grunt aspect.

From this perspective, I agree 100%.

At times two would be on the ball together.....with receivers circling for their hard one ball.

But what we need to do is to havea series of good players rotaing through the midfield.

Too often last year we saw us lose control when our "A" team was not on the ball...with their replacements being of a much lower quality.
It was to much ofa reduction.

We need good players constantly roataing through.

All three would have benchtime.....

Ball is a handy mark when forward.
Armo seems to have the knack of being a goal kicker.

but whose the next disposal??

To Dal, Joey, Ray, Gram, CJ, X.....who would also be rotated.


A midfield is not just three players...but upto 10 or more.

Like I said above, after this post, I think our difference is mainly semantic/philosophical - I view the mids in tiers where the centre bounce is related, I think you've got a more holistic view. I don't actually disagree with you at all in light of this response, but the discussion's interesting, so we can pretend it's more if you like

[rexy]

I took it listening to the interview that the point Goddard was making was that to be part of the midfield rotation you had to add value in at least one other position, Ball and Hayes have the permenant inside midfield positions tied up, there replacements in the midfield rotation must be able to go and add value as a HFF, FP, BP etc. Thus far in his career Armo has not really done this and that makes it hard for him to cement a spot.

[Saints94]

Why judge Lynch before he even puts on a st.kilda gurnsey to play?

[saintsRrising]

so we can pretend it's more if you like

Sounds likea plan....

And yes I have no problem with "tiers"..

It would be nice if A = B...but the reality is there is a drop off in ability and effectiveness.
Unfortunately last season the drop off was too great.