Soft

[Bernard Shakey]

Another one that I always like to bring up, don't forget the opponent in the Hodge incident. Kosi landed on his already strapped and injured knee, and obviously was in pain. Sat on the bench for only a short time, and continued to play...

What injured knee?

Continued to play and contributed little.

I seriously hope Kosi gets his head together next year, and performs to the level on here think he can.

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Not sure I totally agree with Pilgram, but we have lost some toughness in the last few years... eg Hamill, Guerra, Peckett, Powell, Thompson, Jones et al

HARDNESS wins premierships.
HARDNESS is a willingness to hate and an act of aggression.
HARDNESS is the difference between a Grand Final and a Flag.

Talent has soemthing to do with it too...

TALENT...
....AND HARDNESS!!!

But not hardness alone!

[rodgerfox]

Not sure I totally agree with Pilgram, but we have lost some toughness in the last few years... eg Hamill, Guerra, Peckett, Powell, Thompson, Jones et al

Peckett and Jones???

You dont believe Peckett and Jones were tough ?? Tougher than any of our current crop of players!!

Jones was about as tough as a wet paper bag.

[Pilgram]

Not sure I totally agree with Pilgram, but we have lost some toughness in the last few years... eg Hamill, Guerra, Peckett, Powell, Thompson, Jones et al

HARDNESS wins premierships.
HARDNESS is a willingness to hate and an act of aggression.
HARDNESS is the difference between a Grand Final and a Flag.

Talent has soemthing to do with it too...

TALENT...
....AND HARDNESS!!!

But not hardness alone!

No, not alone.
Talent are Hardness go together like steak and chips.
You cant have one without the other!

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

Talent are Hardness go together like steak and chips.

...or pizza and beer

[joffaboy]

What injured knee?

Had an injured knee for most of the season, but hey dont let little facts like that get in the way of your hate filled agenda

[Armoooo]

I love the Goose. One of his biggest fans.

However, watching us play the Hawks in the prelim made me wonder about the infamous 'Barry Hall incident'.

Hodge was spitting blood.

Spitting blood.

He got up, played on, and pushed medicos away at the huddle so his teammates didn't know he was struggling.

I'm not meaning to pot Goose here, cause at the time I thought he had every right to stay down for as long as he did. I'm not saying he's soft, he's as courageous as they come - however I am saying he's not as tough as Hodge. Nowhere near it.

And maybe he, and many others need to be for us to be fiar dinkum.

mabe with hodge it looked worse than what it was???

Good point, I broke my ribs a couple of months ago and was spitting out a LOT of blood but it wasn't really that bad...

[SainterK]

[quote="joffaboy"][quote="Bernard Shakey"]
What injured knee?

Was often on the injury list with a knee, and then hyperextended it on the occasion that I mentioned. I don't think he puts the strapping on as a fashion statement. I don't particularly want this to become another Kosi thread, I did also mention Milne's act of bravery...

[markinUSA]

I think Lenny Hayes is a great tackler. He was either 1st or 2nd in the whole AFL last year. I think he'd give you a run for your money.

[Bernard Shakey]

What injured knee?

Had an injured knee for most of the season, but hey dont let little facts like that get in the way of your hate filled agenda :roll:

You're the only one that has ever used the word "hate".

[vacuous space]

Tackling is the element that I’m most concerned about and the element that should concern Ross Lyon.

We finished third in the comp in tackles in 08 (behind Geelong and Sydney), so we can't be that bad at it. I think we'rte plenty hard, we just need to kick the ball better. Even if Goose gets straight up in the 05 prelim, Sydney still only missed two shots at goal the whole night. It was their kicking, not their hardness that got them over the line against us.

[WayneJudson42]

1- Goose wasn't playing this year... so a bad example. Just as you refer to him, I too would refer to Milne.

2- We saw what Hall was capable of with his king hit on The WCE bloke. So let's not assume that the hit on Goose was a love tap.

Toughness is also about playing with injuries. Look At G, Kosi and Roo as examples.

To say that we are physically soft is total crap. We didn't get to a prelim by being soft.

Being consistant is the key.

[SainterK]

Toughness is also about playing with injuries. Look At G, Kosi and Roo as examples.

Totally agree

[Beno88]

I know I'm going right back to the start of this post, but I can't get over the fact that this bloke thinks he can run through Steven King, Steven Baker, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Michael Gardiner, Lenny Hayes, Nick Riewoldt, Matt Maguire & Jason Blake.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I'm 6 ft and 80 kgs ,with 100 games of senior footy under my belt and I couldn't run through anyone on the list except maybe Eljay!!

[Pilgram]

I think Lenny Hayes is a great tackler. He was either 1st or 2nd in the whole AFL last year. I think he'd give you a run for your money.

we may be confusing toughness with hardness.
toughness is best other described with words like resiliance, and the ability to endure.
hardness is something altogether different to toughness.
toughness was hodge in the finals.
hardness was koschitzke at the telstra dome against hawthorn when roo kicked six straight. rooey couldn't have won that game for us in his toughness without the hardness of one JK.

[Pilgram]

I know I'm going right back to the start of this post, but I can't get over the fact that this bloke thinks he can run through Steven King, Steven Baker, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Michael Gardiner, Lenny Hayes, Nick Riewoldt, Matt Maguire & Jason Blake.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I'm 6 ft and 80 kgs ,with 100 games of senior footy under my belt and I couldn't run through anyone on the list except maybe Eljay!!

hardness is being able to run through a double-brick wall.

[Beno88]

hardness is being able to run through a double-brick wall.

Hardness is knowing you're gonna be second to the ball but making sure the player who's first knows you're there and thinks twice next time.

Toughness is being that first player to the ball and putting your head over it knowing you're gonna get hit.

[ace]

Soft outside players look good because they are in the clear and get to kick long to a target.
It is easy for recruiters to assess their performance.

Hard inside players don't look good because they are surrounded by congestion, forced to kick and handpass scrapily without being able to sight up a target.
It is hard for recruiters to assess their their performance.

If recruiters end up with too many soft outside players it is because the recruiters don't have the talent to identify the good hard inside players.

[Pilgram]

Hardness is knowing you're gonna be second to the ball but making sure the player who's first knows you're there and thinks twice next time.

Toughness is being that first player to the ball and putting your head over it knowing you're gonna get hit.

i like that.
i think that we dont have too much of a problem with toughness or hardness and in fact now that banger is gone some of the younger lads may be looking to make a name for themself as the next hardman for st. kilda.
rosso knows what he is doing in my opinion and if he spots any weakness amongst the team or any individual he will take the appropriate steps.
i just think it was sydney's tackling that won them a flag and again port, geelong and hawthorn.
i just think that there's nothing wrong with a bit of the hardness i saw from JK last season. if i copped a week for what he did i would have been very upset and rightfully angry. JK won that game against hawthorn all roo did was kick the score.

[brown-coat]

All stkilda players should be placed on top of a hill when they're newborns. If they don't survive, so be it.

When they reach the age of 10 they must be sent into the wilderness for a few years to survive on their own.

Then and only then do we have a chance of creating a team of real men.

[Quixote]

I know I'm going right back to the start of this post, but I can't get over the fact that this bloke thinks he can run through Steven King, Steven Baker, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Michael Gardiner, Lenny Hayes, Nick Riewoldt, Matt Maguire & Jason Blake.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I'm 6 ft and 80 kgs ,with 100 games of senior footy under my belt and I couldn't run through anyone on the list except maybe Eljay!!

Was going to say something similar myself.

Hilarious OP Pilgrim.


We do, however, need harder bodies INSIDE the packs. Luke Ball for one. Baker for two. Cousins for three. Armitage to come on.

After the first final loss to Geelong, Lenny Hayes said it himself - they were harder and tougher than us.

There is a common misconception on here and in the football media that we need more outside runners.

WE DON'T. Especially with the addition of Ray.

We need to clone Hayes and Bally and we'd be getting somewhere.

Oh and FWIW, I have the feeling this group is GUTTED after our shattering finish to '08 - and will galvanise in '09, look after each other, play angry and not take no for an answer.

My two bob.

[Pilgram]

The read on Armo is that he needs to do a few hundred headstand sets followed by about one-billion chinups.
The only blokes in red, white and black i saw 'play angry' last season were BJ, LB, JK and MH.
One bloke who is as soft as a feather and whom is having a dead-set laugh is Nick Dal Santo.

[vacuous space]

we may be confusing toughness with hardness.

Synonyms can be tricky that way.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I know I'm going right back to the start of this post, but I can't get over the fact that this bloke thinks he can run through Steven King, Steven Baker, Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher, Michael Gardiner, Lenny Hayes, Nick Riewoldt, Matt Maguire & Jason Blake.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I'm 6 ft and 80 kgs ,with 100 games of senior footy under my belt and I couldn't run through anyone on the list except maybe Eljay!!

minus the 'hahahaha' you have a point

gilbo has one hell of a mean tackle on him..i.e kerr last year twice during the harv's game against the eagles...stuff of pure erection

[St. Luke]

I love the Goose. One of his biggest fans.

However, watching us play the Hawks in the prelim made me wonder about the infamous 'Barry Hall incident'.

Hodge was spitting blood.

Spitting blood.

He got up, played on, and pushed medicos away at the huddle so his teammates didn't know he was struggling.

I'm not meaning to pot Goose here, cause at the time I thought he had every right to stay down for as long as he did. I'm not saying he's soft, he's as courageous as they come - however I am saying he's not as tough as Hodge. Nowhere near it.

And maybe he, and many others need to be for us to be fiar dinkum.

That incident with Hodge was very impressive. He's certainly a tuff-nut!

I agree with the basic core of the initial post, although the Hawks are a team who'll always try and break a tackle because 9 times out of 10 they know they will. Good training and the confidence to go with it!