The game passed St Kilda behind

[AP Erebus]

More some ideas that I have been kicking around in my head rather than a fully fledged argument.

It seems to me as if the game has passed St Kilda by. The current game is all about speed, fast ball transfer and contested ball.

2-3 years ago it was big strong forwards, strong, hardened bodies and big tall backs. Now a days it's all about mobile forwards, speed and running backs.

The truth is that the current list is not good enough for the current game. Even though the Bulldogs and Geelong struggled, once the game moved, look how they have prospered. One might argue that they made the game switch but the truth is that they adapted their game plans and list.

I certainly don't think Ross Lyon should be sacked, that would put us even further behind the 8 ball. What I am suggesting is that it's time to cull the list. Start recruiting young speedy kids.

We have a good core of player that you can build a team around. Roo, Dal, Lenny, Bally, Joey, Gram, Gilbert, S.Fish, C.Jones but it's time to cut some of the dead weight.

Leigh Fisher, Raph, Milney are the first 3 I'd be saying good-bye to.

This season is not wasted yet, but I fear that a semi decent result (finals) might mask problems in the list and stop us from getting good kids in the draft.

As I said, not terribly coherent, more just thinking un-emotionally about it.

[Ralphy]

wouldnt be saying goodbye to milney,

L.fisher, Raph, yeah agree with those, nd maybe x...

[AP Erebus]

wouldnt be saying goodbye to milney

I'm curious. Why not?

Are you seeing something that i'm not?

I find him terribly inconsistent, slow, frustrating as all hell.

It's not that he doesn't kicks goals, but some weeks it's 4 and the next 3 weeks it'll be 0...

at least thats how I see it.

[Mr Magic]

There seems to be 2 distinctly different styles of play that is succeeding at the moment.

On the one hand you have Hawthorn and Brisbane who have the 'traditional' setup of a couple of strong tall marking forwards (Bradshaw/Brown and Franklin'Roughead) with much less reliance on the small crumber (although they do have some)

On the other hand you have Footscray, Geelong and Collingwood who seem to be relying on a number of smaller goalkicking options (Johnson/Aker/Hahn, Chapman/Ablett/Johnson, and Medhurst/Thomas/Davis/Didak)
with much less reliance on the tall marking options (although they do have some)

We seem to be stuck between the 2 contrasting styles
We have tall marking options who are haveing trouble kicking straight and we have Milne/Schneider/XClarke as smalls.

[Otiman]

The game was aiming to pass us a goal, but it missed.

[matrix]

isnt milney leading the goal kicking for us?

granted he can be friggin useless at times, but if that stat is correct, then i think he is deserving of his spot.
he should really be kicking around two a game...id be happy with that.

[chook23]

More some ideas that I have been kicking around in my head rather than a fully fledged argument.

It seems to me as if the game has passed St Kilda by. The current game is all about speed, fast ball transfer and contested ball.

2-3 years ago it was big strong forwards, strong, hardened bodies and big tall backs. Now a days it's all about mobile forwards, speed and running backs.

The truth is that the current list is not good enough for the current game. Even though the Bulldogs and Geelong struggled, once the game moved, look how they have prospered. One might argue that they made the game switch but the truth is that they adapted their game plans and list.

I certainly don't think Ross Lyon should be sacked, that would put us even further behind the 8 ball. What I am suggesting is that it's time to cull the list. Start recruiting young speedy kids.

We have a good core of player that you can build a team around. Roo, Dal, Lenny, Bally, Joey, Gram, Gilbert, S.Fish, C.Jones but it's time to cut some of the dead weight.

Leigh Fisher, Raph, Milney are the first 3 I'd be saying good-bye to.
This season is not wasted yet, but I fear that a semi decent result (finals) might mask problems in the list and stop us from getting good kids in the draft.

As I said, not terribly coherent, more just thinking un-emotionally about it.

Ferguson.......acid on him....last chance 2008

OK 1st game....poor last week......

been on list total 6 seasons with little games...already delisted once.......

[Dan Warna]

good teams make the rules.

strong marking FF types were supposed to be obsolete, yet sheedy and lethal made the most of the tools they had on hand.

IMO Lyon is trying to implant a game plan on st kilda regardless of the tools he had at hand.

I'd hazzard a guess if Leigh matthews was at st kilda, he would look at what he had and make it work for him.

Alistair Lynch was an effective lions player despite kicking 50 to 70 gold, pretty sure Lethal wouldn't trying to make FG run around on the wing to chase kicks.

[degruch]

The game was aiming to pass us a goal, but it missed.

Was Riewoldt kicking at the time?

[longtimesaint]

Milne is leading our goalkicking with 26 at an average of 2.36 per game.
In addition has provided at least 10-15 goal assists.
I think he deserves his spot.

[kaos theory]

Agreed AP erbus.


One thing, Iv'e been constantly saying is that the st.kilda football club does not exist in a vacuum. Yet too many here seem to think that because we were great in 04/05, then we must still be great now, its just the coach that has destroyed it all....They think that all other teams are cast in stone and their lists have not changed/improved in the past 3 or 4 years...

The coach (and his panel) may be underperforming, but that is not where the big issues lie with failures...

There seems to be 2 distinctly different styles of play that is succeeding at the moment.

On the one hand you have Hawthorn and Brisbane who have the 'traditional' setup of a couple of strong tall marking forwards (Bradshaw/Brown and Franklin'Roughead) with much less reliance on the small crumber (although they do have some)

On the other hand you have Footscray, Geelong and Collingwood who seem to be relying on a number of smaller goalkicking options (Johnson/Aker/Hahn, Chapman/Ablett/Johnson, and Medhurst/Thomas/Davis/Didak)
with much less reliance on the tall marking options (although they do have some)

MM - Wrong. ALL these teams rely on fast attacking and skillfull ball movement using pacy mid-sized players. Atm, the winning approach is a running, highly mobile game.

[degruch]

Agreed AP erbus.

There seems to be 2 distinctly different styles of play that is succeeding at the moment.

On the one hand you have Hawthorn and Brisbane who have the 'traditional' setup of a couple of strong tall marking forwards (Bradshaw/Brown and Franklin'Roughead) with much less reliance on the small crumber (although they do have some)

On the other hand you have Footscray, Geelong and Collingwood who seem to be relying on a number of smaller goalkicking options (Johnson/Aker/Hahn, Chapman/Ablett/Johnson, and Medhurst/Thomas/Davis/Didak)
with much less reliance on the tall marking options (although they do have some)

MM - Wrong. ALL these teams rely on fast attacking and skillfull ball movement using pacy mid-sized players. Atm, the winning approach is a running, highly mobile game.

I think he's dead right. Besides, you can have all the pace in the world, but if you disposal is crap, who cares...ala Richmond. Fast, speedy midfielders are great, but to say they are 'the game' is a bit simple.

[saintbob]

wouldnt be saying goodbye to milney

I'm curious. Why not?

Are you seeing something that i'm not?

I find him terribly inconsistent, slow, frustrating as all hell.

It's not that he doesn't kicks goals, but some weeks it's 4 and the next 3 weeks it'll be 0...

at least thats how I see it.

Totally agree!!!

While some are saying that he is leading the goal kicking so he must stay why don't these same people have a good hard look at the amount off times he turns the ball over in our forward half with either horrible decision making or those pathetic little around the corner kicks.

[degruch]

wouldnt be saying goodbye to milney

I'm curious. Why not?

Are you seeing something that i'm not?

I find him terribly inconsistent, slow, frustrating as all hell.

It's not that he doesn't kicks goals, but some weeks it's 4 and the next 3 weeks it'll be 0...

at least thats how I see it.

Totally agree!!!

While some are saying that he is leading the goal kicking so he must stay why don't these same people have a good hard look at the amount off times he turns the ball over in our forward half with either horrible decision making or those pathetic little around the corner kicks.

Who'd care, if the other guys were doing their job, he wouldn't need to be our only goal-scoring forward. 26 goals is just fine, but Roo and Kosi should have 35 a piece.

[Dan Warna]

and replace milne with whom?

another useless richmond half forward flanker who hasn't had a hard ball get in his career and his idea of a goal is scoring at the bar at night and a goal assist is setting up his mate with a date?

Milne scores goals and sets goals up for his team mates.

thats his job, and frankly given the limited opportunities, he's one of the few doing his job.

[St. Luke]

wouldnt be saying goodbye to milney

I'm curious. Why not?

Are you seeing something that i'm not?

I find him terribly inconsistent, slow, frustrating as all hell.

It's not that he doesn't kicks goals, but some weeks it's 4 and the next 3 weeks it'll be 0...

at least thats how I see it.

Totally agree!!!

While some are saying that he is leading the goal kicking so he must stay why don't these same people have a good hard look at the amount off times he turns the ball over in our forward half with either horrible decision making or those pathetic little around the corner kicks.

Who'd care, if the other guys were doing their job, he wouldn't need to be our only goal-scoring forward. 26 goals is just fine, but Roo and Kosi should have 35 a piece.

Totally agree. Plenty of others in the side who need to take a really long look at themselves before Milne ever needs to! Milne does his job well IMO and without him we’d be far worse off this season in particular! To go a step further he’d probably be even more deadly if our forwards managed to soak up more of the oppositions attention, but they don’t. When given the right conditions he is such a deadly player!

[aussiejones]

Who'd care, if the other guys were doing their job, he wouldn't need to be our only goal-scoring forward. 26 goals is just fine, but Roo and Kosi should have 35 a piece.

Jezz lay off Milney

Get a grip on the non performers >>>>>
"but Roo and Kosi should have 35 a piece."

Both in serious trouble ....especially concerning GOALS !!!

[AP Erebus]

and replace milne with whom?

another useless richmond half forward flanker who hasn't had a hard ball get in his career and his idea of a goal is scoring at the bar at night and a goal assist is setting up his mate with a date?

Milne scores goals and sets goals up for his team mates.

thats his job, and frankly given the limited opportunities, he's one of the few doing his job.

This is my point... replace him with a kid who has a bit of enthusiasm.

I found that he goes missing for way too much of a game... and how many of his goal are scored in junk time at the end of a game... then again, how many of St Kilda's are scored then =S

There seems to be 2 distinctly different styles of play that is succeeding at the moment.

On the one hand you have Hawthorn and Brisbane who have the 'traditional' setup of a couple of strong tall marking forwards (Bradshaw/Brown and Franklin'Roughead) with much less reliance on the small crumber (although they do have some)

On the other hand you have Footscray, Geelong and Collingwood who seem to be relying on a number of smaller goalkicking options (Johnson/Aker/Hahn, Chapman/Ablett/Johnson, and Medhurst/Thomas/Davis/Didak)
with much less reliance on the tall marking options (although they do have some)

We seem to be stuck between the 2 contrasting styles
We have tall marking options who are haveing trouble kicking straight and we have Milne/Schneider/XClarke as smalls.

but one thing about those teams, and kaos mentioned this, is that they all move the ball quickly and with precision.

Port did this last year, they moved the ball fast and with a limited forward line, look where it got them.

I suppose looking at Freo's and St Kilda's lists, one thing that is always brought up is the pace, or rather the lack of it. It was no surprise that Freo looked better when they brought in Palmer, young kid, bit of speed...


There is no doubt that we would be playing much better with more precise ball use, but with a lack of pace, this is only brought to the forfront even more as your blokes can't get the extra meter needed to cover for a slightly less that terrific ball use.