TD surface - 6 out of 7 games - and our injury predicament..

[saintspremiers]

The good old hard TD surface issue is worth discussing again given the recent spate of injuries.

We've had 5 games in a row at TD, one in Adelaide and now the latest disaster (injury wise) at TD.

Is it a factor again, even with the heat lamps helping to keep the grass green?

How long is the grass at TD?

Is it shorter than at the MCG?

Should we consider moving our home base to the MCG purely for the sake of preserving our player's bodies???

I personally prefer TD to the MCG for spectating, but would prefer the MCG as our home if it meant less injuries.

Thoughts?

[saint66au]

When the draw came out in October we all danced around celebrating that we had 7 of our first 8 games at the Dome.

Now we get a few injuries and all of a sudden its a bad thing?

Cant have it both ways people. Roo's injury would have happened anywhere and Max and X's hamstrings are dodgier than a Lazar Vidovic car deal.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

When the draw came out in October we all danced around celebrating that we had 7 of our first 8 games at the Dome.

Now we get a few injuries and all of a sudden its a bad thing?

Cant have it both ways people. Roo's injury would have happened anywhere and Max and X's hamstrings are dodgier than a Lazar Vidovic car deal.

good post...love the vidovic reference

x's hammy has seemingly gone under the microscope a bit since the victory what with goose, roo, bakes, the time clock thing all taking priority

considering that we have plenty of talls and goose's form...it is probably worth making the statement that x missing is bigger than goose's considering we struggle to find pacy mid's...x seemed to be playing well throughout this year although he still drifts in and out of games too much for anyone's liking

goose now has no trade value at all...i guess in hindsight if we were to have recieved a first rounder for him from the hawks last year we should have taken it...anything good we get out of gose from now on in is a plus really...

also why is his injury season ending??considering it is on his good foot???

i read plenty of examples of soccer players etc coming back sooner rather than later...perhaps we send him to england to get the treatment that the soccer players recieved ala max rooke...

who knows come the last saturday in september we could need him...

[Ice Wolf]

When the draw came out in October we all danced around celebrating that we had 7 of our first 8 games at the Dome.

Now we get a few injuries and all of a sudden its a bad thing?

Cant have it both ways people. Roo's injury would have happened anywhere and Max and X's hamstrings are dodgier than a Lazar Vidovic car deal.

good post...love the vidovic reference

x's hammy has seemingly gone under the microscope a bit since the victory what with goose, roo, bakes, the time clock thing all taking priority

considering that we have plenty of talls and goose's form...it is probably worth making the statement that x missing is bigger than goose's considering we struggle to find pacy mid's...x seemed to be playing well throughout this year although he still drifts in and out of games too much for anyone's liking

goose now has no trade value at all...i guess in hindsight if we were to have recieved a first rounder for him from the hawks last year we should have taken it...anything good we get out of gose from now on in is a plus really...

also why is his injury season ending??considering it is on his good foot???

i read plenty of examples of soccer players etc coming back sooner rather than later...perhaps we send him to england to get the treatment that the soccer players recieved ala max rooke...

who knows come the last saturday in september we could need him...

They are playing it safe and don't want him to rush his recovery, he's only 23 and i think they have him signed for a couple of years. They want him to focus on getting everything right.

[saint66au]

the Club have now said that Gooses injury is to his "bad" foot

X is a huge loss. Apart from his run he's one fo the few that can make a tackle stick

[Spinner]

I hate Telstra Dome.

Move to the MCG.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

the Club have now said that Gooses injury is to his "bad" foot

X is a huge loss. Apart from his run he's one fo the few that can make a tackle stick

well that makes sense then if it is his bad foot...because the initial injury on the other foot shouldnt keep him out for the season

i didnt understand the coton wool approach that people on here stated considering there is nothing to keep him in cotton wool over as it is his good foot

well give him all the time he needs...a bloody shame though...he will be back...

[saintsRrising]

How long is the grass at TD?

Is it shorter than at the MCG?

.....
Thoughts?

It is not the length of the grass that is important...

You can actually have long grass, which is sparse so that players stops impact the soil which increases the jarring and impact. This was certainlt the problem at Docklands in past seasons that even when the surface looked green that it was still a hard surface to play on.


What is important is the thickness of the "thatch". It is the thatch that makes the surface springy. With a good thatch your stops or blades penetrate and grip the thatch so that you do not slip or slide....but do not reach the soil underneath.

The thatch layer if thick enough is springy to run on making it more comforatble and less jarring.

In addition other body impacts are also less...ie from falling, being tackled etc.



Hopefully the new lamps have resulted in a healthy thatch...but you cannot go by just whether the grass looks long and green.

[saintspremiers]

thanks Srs, good point, and I know what you're saying, as our backyard is Walter Buffalo couch grass that is very thatchy and springy.....very hard to hurt yourself taking a tumble on it!

[longtimesaint]

I am new to the forum but a long time follower of the saints and reader of the forum.
I believe the main reason the dome has a high injury toll is its hardness, which is caused by the concrete car park roof with only a metre of soil above it which has compacted and is like concrete.
I think the grass quality helps the players have better grip but does not help the injury problem.
Players have always complained that they are more sore after games at the dome and that is not because of grass.
The grass issue has been the AFL's and Colllo's way of avoiding the real issue which is a design fault with the stadium.
While we play there so much we will always have more soft tissue injuries than other clubs.

[saintsRrising]

I am new to the forum but a long time follower of the saints and reader of the forum.
I believe the main reason the dome has a high injury toll is its hardness, which is caused by the concrete car park roof with only a metre of soil above it which has compacted and is like concrete.
.

Welcome.



The depth of soil of soil, mainly sand is sufficient to eliminate the effect of the slab. If it is a metre...then at about 45 degrees the force of a foot running on the surface would be borne over a circular area about 2 metres in diameter at the slab level...about 4m2.

The cone of soil to be displaced would have a volume of about 3m3 with a mass of say about 6 tonne. The energy of a footfall is not going to havea lot of effect after all that to get an equal and opposite reaction back....and in particular if you havea soft springy layer right at the surface.

On the soil...if it was "compacted and is like concrete" plants (ie grass) would not grow in it.

Healthy soil structures require air :

* because plants need air around their roots and will not grow in compacted soils
* secondly the soil must have voids to drain water through it. The Dome surface reugularly drains water quickly.

Sand substrates can however become hard relative to a wet muddy soil. But this is basically restricted to the shallow upper surface. (So yes modern fields and pitches on sand substrates can be harder as they never "muddy" up).

However as the MCG was relaid I think you will find it's substrate is not disimilar to that at Docklands.

Moorabbin was also relaid at great expense to replicate Docklands.

The difference has been in the grass thatch.....and also to some extent the root structure in the upper part of the soil.

It is not the suspended concrete slab.

It is the lack of "cushion" at the surface...and not what is one metre below.

[saintsRrising]

the real issue which is a design fault with the stadium.
.

I do agree that there wasa design fault though...

Lack of sunlight through the orientation not being optimised as well as choice of roof materials.

The sunlight is not just needed for photosynthesis....but to supply heat as grass grows faster when it is in warm conditions....and slower when very cold.