Raph Clarke

[cowboy18]

I've only finished watching and felt that he was a big part of our surge in the third quarter.

Made a few mistakes but held his own in my opinion.

[saintsRrising]

why?
*there is no logic to dropping him..

So if Max is fit for the Pies game...Max stay out?


I thought selection was playing your best 22?

[saintsRrising]

I've only finished watching and felt that he was a big part of our surge in the third quarter.

.

Yes his thrird quarter was good.

[james rose]

why?
*there is no logic to dropping him..

So if Max is fit for the Pies game...Max stay out?


I thought selection was playing your best 22?

if you define best 22 by the players performance alone then gram is out

if you define it by positional form goose is out

or he could just replace one of the forced changes we will have and put raph fwd of the ball.

[To the top]

The Fireman says that too many mistakes sums up out team at the moment.

And then slams R. Clarke.

Well, the mistakes by the team include not supporting the player with the pill, not giving him the options of dishing or delivering.

Leaving the player who has got his hands on the pill one out against up to 3 opponents, all within tackling distance and closing his space.

Open your eyes and look just a little further The Fireman.

Because you have actually destroyed your own argument re R. Clarke by saying what you have said.

[To the top]

Just to add a further observation, Richardson and Brown were cutting up their opponents - and were looking continually dangerous.

So what about their opponents wearing red, white and black?

Because Richardson and Brown nearly won the game for Richmond.

And Simmonds cut up Kosi in ruck setting up Richmond's attack from the centre - it was only when Gardiner could be on the ground and in the ruck that we nullified and wrested control of the rucking contests.

Why only R. Clarke?

What say we put the same (rubbish) analysis (that they can not play) against our other defenders?

How did Baker go against N. Brown?

Simply the competitoin has passed Baker by because he is too short, too slow and has no skills with the ball.

Milne saved his skin, but such an affort is the benchmark - and one of his goals (his first) came when his opponent fluffed a mark and the ball spilled over the back - to where Milne was.

So keep the analysis going - but please expand the cast.

[The Fireman]

The Fireman says that too many mistakes sums up out team at the moment.

And then slams R. Clarke.

Well, the mistakes by the team include not supporting the player with the pill, not giving him the options of dishing or delivering.

Leaving the player who has got his hands on the pill one out against up to 3 opponents, all within tackling distance and closing his space.

Open your eyes and look just a little further The Fireman.

Because you have actually destroyed your own argument re R. Clarke by saying what you have said.

By saying that Raph isn't up to it I have what???
I feel very comfortable with that comment.
Mistakes are made across the board but in Raph's case they are too many even when he has support.

[To the top]

The Fireman, when he had the support and the options his hand and foot skills were very, very good.

Perhaps you missed the little give off hand balls which set players free and created opportunities?

Perhaps they were just a little too quick for you, or you were too far away?

Yes, he tries to set plays up - but to do that you need the options.

What plays did Baker (for example) set up?

And, except for when Gardiner was able to ruck (and he is not to the fitness level to ruck the game, or more than 50% just yet), Richmond absolutely dominated the stoppages, setting players free around the back then running forward, delivering to forwards running into space.

Making it look easy. Richmond had by far the more of the ball - look at the stats. Yet St Kilda won. Why?

One measure when defenders are confronted with opposition dominance at stoppages and fluent use of the ball from stoppages is to force your immediate opponent outside the scoring zone, because you will not stop them from marking (because there is no pressure on the ball deliverer) so you need to ensure that your responsibility is that that mark does not result in a pot on goal or a hand off to a runner going inside. You look to "hold" the flow of the ball by interrupting the flow of possessions. Then it is up to the next guy who is a direct opponent of the ball handler - and those using the interruption to flow to fill the space. You have done all you can do.

Do you watch for these little things, The Fireman?

Because they win games of football.

And R. Clarke contributed to the interruption as well, if not better, than most of our other defenders.

Max is by far and away our best interruptor because he has closing speed and Gilbert is a comer to the game, but with great potential.

But who else applies this necessary pressure?

[Ghost Like]

With Hudgden out, with Maguire off with a crook ankle who was left as a "tall" in our defence?

R. Clarke is 189cm, and the job fell to him, although Maguire was back on at the end. Had to be!

Yes there were times he, like every other player on the field, was in the spotlight but when you win the ball, are confronted immediately by up to 3 opposition players, look to give off to your support, but wait, there is no support, what do you do?

And his brother's hand ball to him was loose so he was unable to run onto the possession, had to track the bouncing ball which got behind him - balls the shape of an AFL football can do that.

Some of his disposal by hand was good, setting up when he actually did have running support - and a couple of kicks carried a line to a spot up player deep - I think a couple of goals came from these disposals.

In terms of forwards outmarking defenders, it happens, and R. Clarke was not the only defender outmarked on occasion.

He had the pill 19 times - and some of those touches were very effective - but sometimes he was the "rabbit in the headlights" because the support was not around him - unlike Richmond who always seem to have someone (at least) in support - in fact most clubs seem to have "shovel it back" support against St Kilda.

So yes, he did at times look ordinary, but he had the pill and had absolutely no support to give off to and no forward options.

It is a team game, and St Kilda seem to be outplayed in that area.

Mind you with the inter-change bench as it was it was a meritorious win - and Riewoldt was rather "unfortunate" to be pile driven when not in possession of the ball - and winning a free kick for the attack on him when the ball was in someone else's hands.

Great and accurate summation of Raph's game.

While Raph is in the side there are some players getting away scott free...
it was not Raph's fault Bake's got towelled up,
it was not Raph's fault that Sam Fisher copped Richo on a night out,
it's not Raph's fault that Gram can still not make a tackle stick or man up goal side of his direct opponent or can't hit team mates anymore with his "long bombs",
it's not Raph's fault Joey is still reading his press clippings from last year and struggling to find the pill this year,
it's not Raph's fault the Big G's mind is still in Switzerland along with his aggression,
it's not Raph's fault Goose is living in AFL footy land circa 2005,
it's not Raph's fault we get smashed in clearances and struggle to own the centre corridor which is the catalyst for quick ball movement.

I think Raph may have had 2 goals kicked by his direct opponent but I think it was only one, but seems to have been blamed for 16 goals. I think if Raph turned the ball over 98% of the time then he would have had 18 clangers instead of 5. FFS he kicked the ball long down the line to the boundary here there was a huge contest and he gets the blame that our players were not good enough to win that contest or force a ball up or throw in.

I think some people need to take a breath and look at some of our protected players who appear to be escaping criticism because Raph was a late inclusion.

[joffaboy]

I think Raph may have had 2 goals kicked by his direct opponent but I think it was only one, but seems to have been blamed for 16 goals.

Considering he was instrumetal in the first three of the Saints goals and we won by less than one, it could be said that he in fact won us the game.

I wont say that of course because it looks as ridiculous and factuous as some on the anti Raoh posts I have read here.

To say one day he will lose us a game is just inward looking.

Just as silly as saying "one day he will win us a game".

Why dont you people get yourself a new whipping boy.

I think some people need to take a breath and look at some of our protected players who appear to be escaping criticism because Raph was a late inclusion.

Spot on. And also I have just watched the last qtr of the game. If you aren't happy with our teams efforts, including Raph, you are just a negative sad sack.

It was inspirational. But there is no pleasing some people.

[derby Street]

While I am not a big fan of Raph's (mainly his decision making ) I thought his game last night was one of his better ones and in our top 10 .
After your rant Fireman I took particular notice of Raph's game as I watched the replay on Fox and saw lots more mistakes from other Saints.

Fireman you need to open your eyes (perhaps even watch the replay of the game again ??) and take off the blinkers and find another player to take out your frustrations. Why don't you start up 6 posts about some other's whose games were far worse than R.C.

[The Fireman]

While I am not a big fan of Raph's (mainly his decision making ) I thought his game last night was one of his better ones and in our top 10 .
After your rant Fireman I took particular notice of Raph's game as I watched the replay on Fox and saw lots more mistakes from other Saints.

Fireman you need to open your eyes (perhaps even watch the replay of the game again ??) and take off the blinkers and find another player to take out your frustrations. Why don't you start up 6 posts about some other's whose games were far worse than R.C.

I could pick on some other players but chose Raph, is that ok? No ? bad luck, did you listen to the radio today?, I wasn't the only one not happy with him being in the side.

[jill]

While I think Raph is a natural as a forward and should be played there, still think a lot of the things he does go unnoticed by many Saints "fans".
Thought his efforts helped contribute to our win.

[suss]

I don't necessarily want to enter the debate but for what it's worth I think Raph's couple of poor errors in decision were vastly outweighed by his tackling and courageous defensive efforts in the second half.

A couple of times he pressured Richmond players into making errors. He seems to be one of the few players that can make a tackle stick. He also ran back into packs to spoil on a couple of occasions showing lots of courage.

In fact, I'd much rather a blokes like McGuire, Bakes and Raph be out there than those that want to kick the ball off the ground rather than put their scone over the pill.

[derby Street]

While I am not a big fan of Raph's (mainly his decision making ) I thought his game last night was one of his better ones and in our top 10 .
After your rant Fireman I took particular notice of Raph's game as I watched the replay on Fox and saw lots more mistakes from other Saints.

Fireman you need to open your eyes (perhaps even watch the replay of the game again ??) and take off the blinkers and find another player to take out your frustrations. Why don't you start up 6 posts about some other's whose games were far worse than R.C.

I could pick on some other players but chose Raph, is that ok? No ? bad luck, did you listen to the radio today?, I wasn't the only one not happy with him being in the side.

If you are being fair and objective then you must open up more individual posts on those other players you say you could also have PICKED (your turn of phrase which I reckon sums up your rant pretty well)



I reckon you would make a great coach - your motivational skills & positive reinforcement would be absolutely fantastic.
Of course when all else fails then you could become negative, denigrate your players, start PICKING on them like a school yard bully ??? although much better of course if you could do it behind the safety & anomnynity of the internet.

[matrix]

when he gets a game in two weeks (pretty sure he'll be needed) im going to bump this thread on friday arvo so we dont have to start a new one nearly every time he gets a game.

that way we can use the same one and save precious bandwidth..

[The Fireman]

While I am not a big fan of Raph's (mainly his decision making ) I thought his game last night was one of his better ones and in our top 10 .
After your rant Fireman I took particular notice of Raph's game as I watched the replay on Fox and saw lots more mistakes from other Saints.

Fireman you need to open your eyes (perhaps even watch the replay of the game again ??) and take off the blinkers and find another player to take out your frustrations. Why don't you start up 6 posts about some other's whose games were far worse than R.C.

I could pick on some other players but chose Raph, is that ok? No ? bad luck, did you listen to the radio today?, I wasn't the only one not happy with him being in the side.

If you are being fair and objective then you must open up more individual posts on those other players you say you could also have PICKED (your turn of phrase which I reckon sums up your rant pretty well)



I reckon you would make a great coach - your motivational skills & positive reinforcement would be absolutely fantastic.
Of course when all else fails then you could become negative, denigrate your players, start PICKING on them like a school yard bully ??? although much better of course if you could do it behind the safety & anomnynity of the internet.

If I was coach I would drop Raph.
If I bag a player I'm like a schoolyard bully???? WTF???
and as far as doing it on the internet , where and when should I do it? Would you like to meet me at the next game and I could do it then?

[saintsRrising]

Why only R. Clarke?
.

See OP and string title.

......

So keep the analysis going - but please expand the cast.

This is a string clearly titled to be about one R Clarke......so please don't expand the cast in this string. It is not what is about.

[Ghost Like]

Why only R. Clarke?
.

This is a string clearly titled to be about one R Clarke......so please don't expand the cast in this string. It is not what is about.

Exactly sRs and that is what those of us who are not purely anti-Raph are scratching our heads about...that is why we ask, why only R. Clarke when there were clearly far worse players in the red, white and black last night.

[mad saint guy]

why?
*there is no logic to dropping him..

So if Max is fit for the Pies game...Max stay out?

I thought selection was playing your best 22?

Dempster, Maguire, Gram and Gehrig all well behind him at the moment and then take into account the possible forced exclusions of Riewoldt, X.Clarke and Koschitzke. Raph's chances for a game are looking pretty good.

[barks4eva]

I'm a suspect...usually.

Mate you are just suspect

It's those trips to the mountains with his so called "fishing buddy", where the fishing rods are left at home, that's the real worry

[The Fireman]

I'm a suspect...usually.

Mate you are just suspect

It's those trips to the mountains with his so called "fishing buddy", where the fishing rods are left at home, that's the real worry

you're just spewin you weren't invited.

[Solar]

he's a forward, was forced to play back. Only mistakes happened when he had no support around for the cut out handpass. Set up the first three goals, very creative when given space. Anyone notice the crap bounce he got and the legged tackle he copped when trying to get back up.....

Look up at the coaches box for the problem, why is goddard and raph being played down back?

[villasaint]

his decision making is crap but he did make some good tackles last night. Whilst watching live i though he was crap, on reflection ane watching the replay he did make some good tackles. but overall his decision making is poor and his disposal average

[saint64]

I think the comparison with Goddard of a couple of years ago is an interesting one. We all thought Goddard was too slow and made poor decisions - but now he seems to be a lot more self-assured, and seems to make the right decisions 90% of the time. There were times last night when I saw the same thing in Raph. He has obviously worked hard on his tackling, and his decision making was pretty good for the most part. He is also looking a bit stronger and fitter. Let's give him time to develop further. I still think he can be a good player for us long term.