Higgins Alir incident

[Sainter_Dad]

There was only ever going to be one outcome

We are an easy target ... just a small kid in the neighbourhood and the perfect punchbag for the AFL to establish precedence or to warn other smaller clubs

One rule for some ..... another rule for others

We are marked and have been for a long time

How to train the AFL ......


We are the puppet!!!

[older saint]

Saints have said they wont appeal and accepted the decision.
What gets me is the person in charge of the tribunal ruled that Higgins had a responsibility to let go of the tackle in the split second the ball is kicked.

THE MRO is appalling and the tribunal this year have followed suit with some baffling decisions.
A system where this is only 1 game less than Wright is a broken system, It was set up to stop tribunal hearings and save cash but by trying to put everything into a small set of boxes doesn't work.

Bottom line if you are not a star of the comp you will not get special treatment. Greene should have been cited the week before we played them, Roozee a few weeks before and don't get me started on Cameron the good bloke.

But while we get pay rolled by the AFL we can do anything to stop it. Look at the draw it was either a mistake and because we are the ugly step sister wasn't even considered, or a reminder of where we sit in the eyes of head office . While we rely on their hand outs the AFL is our Pimp!

[Otiman]

We should definitely be appealing the decision. If not for us then for the other clubs in the AFL.

This level of inconsistency can't be allowed to stand.

"Outcome = punishment" is not the way to change behaviours.

[1971]

St Kilda should play a game and take tribunal decisions to their logical conclusion. Do not tackle at all. Not once.

[Otiman]

The message received by the clubs and public from this incident is:

- Arm holding tackles are not OK. The AFL should come out and state that holding an arm/wrist is the equivalent of pinning.
- Dragging an opponent down with your own weight is considered "rotating" the tackle.

[Yorkeys]

Incrementally a picture of what's not allowed is emerging. It would be so much better if the AFL prescribed what can happen, whether you have good bloke status or not. AFL doesn't have a clue and has outsourced to MRO and Tribunal, who similarly have no clue. They look at outcome, player status and wing it.

[magnifisaint]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

[spert]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

So you would think a woman is ok if Higgins got off? If it was just all blokes and he got three weeks, then obviously men are not suited either. Maybe a quantum computer might be the only answer.

[Sainter_Dad]

Maybe a quantum computer might be the only answer.

Not entering the fight on any other topic - but to point out that Maybe a Quantum Computer is the only answer to determining a path through the clusterfook that is the MRO and Tribunal

[magnifisaint]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

So you would think a woman is ok if Higgins got off? If it was just all blokes and he got three weeks, then obviously men are not suited either. Maybe a quantum computer might be the only answer.

It's all going down the S bend. What qualifications does she have?

[The_Dud]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

And this thread has officially bottomed out!

[avid]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

Really that is just about the studpidest thing I've seen said on this forum, and I've been here a long time.

I am not defending their Higgo decision -- I think it's wrong.
I am not defending Laura Keene's performance -- I wouldn't know -- but if she's responsible for tribunal outcomes, it is clearly questionable.
They might have hired the wrong person.
But if you're actually saying that's because she's a woman, then that is a truly pathetic intellectual effort on your part.

[Sainter_Dad]

St Kilda should play a game and take tribunal decisions to their logical conclusion. Do not tackle at all. Not once.

Or go the other way and concuss every Norf player in the first 15 minutes /s

And - with the level of our tackle efficiency in the past couple of games - how would anyone know???

Do you seriously think the AFL would care if we did not tackle anyone???? We would just be called soft and / or compliant.

The only way the AFL would notice is if we did not turn up at all - either players or supporters or BOTH!

[magnifisaint]

I'm sick of the tokenism of gender equality. That's what happens when you put a woman in charge of a man's game. You play AFL you are likely to get concussed.
Laura Keene, you look like a nice lady but AFL is not for you.

Really that is just about the studpidest thing I've seen said on this forum, and I've been here a long time.

I am not defending their Higgo decision -- I think it's wrong.
I am not defending Laura Keene's performance -- I wouldn't know -- but if she's responsible for tribunal outcomes, it is clearly questionable.
They might have hired the wrong person.
But if you're actually saying that's because she's a woman, then that is a truly pathetic intellectual effort on your part.

Each to their own. I think there's too much political correctness in this world. It's only paying lip service.

[Otiman]

Each to their own. I think there's too much political correctness in this world. It's only paying lip service.

Nothing you have said is about 'political correctness', it was a blatant sexist comment tying someone's gender to their actions.

[King Max]

St Kilda should play a game and take tribunal decisions to their logical conclusion. Do not tackle at all. Not once.

We tried that against the Dogs.

[Sainternist]

[Scollop]

They're calling it a dangerous tackle due to Jack rotating Allir. So in their eyes it's a sling tackle.

Watch Higgins body and arms.

Do not fix your eyes on Allir's body or his head slamming the ground

Does Jack twist his own body or change direction with the way he brings Aliir to the ground?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... _nguEpLWSE

BUMP

Did the umpire on the night get it wrong?

There were 4 field umpires for that game - Leigh Haussen (5), Simon Meredith (21), Nathan Williamson (22), Andrew Heffernan (29)

Heffernan is the youngest and most inexperienced out of ALL 4 who were umpiring on the night

I believe it was Heffernan who called out 'dangerous tackle' and awarded the free to Port. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... _nguEpLWSE

When you watch the official footage (and not the doctored footage which has been going around that somehow tries to implicate a slinging action) you see that it's not a sling tackle at all.

We know umpires make mistakes. We know the AFL has come out and apoligised for the howlers. This was not a clear cut howler of a mistake, but it had serious implications. The fact that the umpire calls 'dangerous tackle' and the fact that we're in this environment of concussion and the fact that Aliir hits his head ... has triggered the MRO to clumsily and hastily slap a 3 week sanction on Higgins.

In the split secoind that Heffernan had to make a call, he erred on the side of awarding Aliir the free kick. That's fair enough.

If Aliir doesn't attempt to kick the footy while he's horizontal, he may not have hit his head, and therefore a free would have been paid to St Kilda. This needed to be a consideration from the MRO but it wasn't. He has evidence he can watch in slow motion. He probably didn't

I'm pissed off that we had to accept the lie that Higgins rotated Aliir prior to Aliir attempting to kick the footy. The evidence shows there was no slinging action prior to Aliir attempting to kick the ball while horizonal. Instead of words, our team needed to focus on the vision

We were incompetent in fighting the charge and we were negligent in protecting our players from incompetent MRO rulings which impact their form and the team's performance

[Superboot]

Ludicrous decision but, let's face it, Bakes would have got 7 weeks.

[longtimesaint]

If that had been Nick Daicos would he have got three weeks?

[magnifisaint]

If that had been Nick Daicos would he have got three weeks?

Nup and if his name was Charlie Cameron his good name would have got him off.

[Sainternist]

Let’s face it, we are the whipping boys of the competition. All St.Kilda players are expendable. By suspending Saints players, the AFaiL isn’t going to lose out on TV ratings and attendances.

[Scollop]

Gerard Whateley said if you’re going to tackle someone who is upright then you’re better off letting them get a kick or handball away, rather than tackling them to ground and risking suspension.

Have a read of a conversation they had on Fox Sports 2 weeks ago - before the Higgins Aliir incident. Gerard Whateley predicted that if a player tackles someone and pins their arm… then that will be deemed dangerous and worthy of suspension, regardless if it was a sling tackle or not.

That’s not a coincidence that he said that. Gerard has a journalism background and he’s well connected. He’s probably communicating what he’s hearing from the AFL.

My issue is that the AFL haven’t come out and said that to players and coaches. What Payne argued at the tribunal was that Higgins began to rotate Aliir prior to Aliir attempting to kick the footy while he was horizontal.

Can you imaging if you’re in a close game where there’s seconds left until the final siren and you’ve been practicing all year NOT to bring your opponent to ground and to NOT pin an arm so your opponent is able to get a kick away or a handball away. Can you imagine if the opposition score because you didn’t pin an arm or bring him to ground? Can you imagine if it’s a prelim final?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/no-mom ... 465300cb5d

[Yorkeys]

How is it League and Union players tackle all game long, almost every play and players are not continually suspended, for tackles below the head/neck region.
I think umpires not paying quick htb penalties has contributed to the current nonsense.

[SaintPav]

Gerard Whateley said if you’re going to tackle someone who is upright then you’re better off letting them get a kick or handball away, rather than tackling them to ground and risking suspension.

Have a read of a conversation they had on Fox Sports 2 weeks ago - before the Higgins Aliir incident. Gerard Whateley predicted that if a player tackles someone and pins their arm… then that will be deemed dangerous and worthy of suspension, regardless if it was a sling tackle or not.

That’s not a coincidence that he said that. Gerard has a journalism background and he’s well connected. He’s probably communicating what he’s hearing from the AFL.

My issue is that the AFL haven’t come out and said that to players and coaches. What Payne argued at the tribunal was that Higgins began to rotate Aliir prior to Aliir attempting to kick the footy while he was horizontal.

Can you imaging if you’re in a close game where there’s seconds left until the final siren and you’ve been practicing all year NOT to bring your opponent to ground and to NOT pin an arm so your opponent is able to get a kick away or a handball away. Can you imagine if the opposition score because you didn’t pin an arm or bring him to ground? Can you imagine if it’s a prelim final?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/no-mom ... 465300cb5d

Even Gerard Whateley was sympathetic to the Higgins case.

What does that tell us!!!