Let’s talk about cheating

[saynta]

What do we know about the current senior umpiring group?
Most seem athletic enough, not many spew at 3/4 time or cramp up.
We know they are largely respectful of each other's decisions, not demurring even when they know a mistake has been made. Nice tight and supportive.
We know they have collectively decided to largely ignore the holding the ball and in the back rules, however it seems each has a quota for each rule, something like one each a game: so don't use it early and don't be stuck having to use it late in a close game.
Are these men and women of strong character able to stare down challenges from Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Zorko et al. Doesn't appear so.
They appear reasonable, they have listened to Hinkley and now pay frees to Charlie D whenever he is in a contest and have reversed the embargo on Ginnivan.
Are these people clever? We don't know. Are they sensitive types, absolutely, they abhor personal abuse, signs of sulking and dissent as well as physical violence (a paradox in a game like Aussie Rules, but there you go).
They are the best judges of performance by way of the Brownlow and are so confident of their opinion have been known to bet money on it.
And they know you have to give the audience what they want, this is the entertainment industry; Essendon, Carlton, Geelong, Collingwood, Port, Crows, WCoast, you know what those mobs crave so give them a 70% free kick count and choose moments of maximum hurt to the opposition. Throw in a couple that are outrageous, commentators love it.
Their shield is the old fashioned value Aussies have that umpire is always right and the infinite forgiveness that an umpire never cheats but can be unsighted and its a tough game to umpire.
They use their shield like a politician uses his/her allowances entitlements, with due respect for the long suffering punters (wink).
So cheating is not a word these custodians of the game would use; collective madness, group think, sheepness and industry standard perhaps, but cheat? that's 50 meters buddy and another 50 if you don't smile nicely.

No mate, they clearly cheated in that game. Why ,? I have no effing idea. The only other alternatives are that they are stupid or don't know the rules. But that should work both ways.It didn't.

[Sainter_Dad]

What do we know about the current senior umpiring group?
Most seem athletic enough, not many spew at 3/4 time or cramp up.
We know they are largely respectful of each other's decisions, not demurring even when they know a mistake has been made. Nice tight and supportive.
We know they have collectively decided to largely ignore the holding the ball and in the back rules, however it seems each has a quota for each rule, something like one each a game: so don't use it early and don't be stuck having to use it late in a close game.
Are these men and women of strong character able to stare down challenges from Dangerfield, Pendlebury, Zorko et al. Doesn't appear so.
They appear reasonable, they have listened to Hinkley and now pay frees to Charlie D whenever he is in a contest and have reversed the embargo on Ginnivan.
Are these people clever? We don't know. Are they sensitive types, absolutely, they abhor personal abuse, signs of sulking and dissent as well as physical violence (a paradox in a game like Aussie Rules, but there you go).
They are the best judges of performance by way of the Brownlow and are so confident of their opinion have been known to bet money on it.
And they know you have to give the audience what they want, this is the entertainment industry; Essendon, Carlton, Geelong, Collingwood, Port, Crows, WCoast, you know what those mobs crave so give them a 70% free kick count and choose moments of maximum hurt to the opposition. Throw in a couple that are outrageous, commentators love it.
Their shield is the old fashioned value Aussies have that umpire is always right and the infinite forgiveness that an umpire never cheats but can be unsighted and its a tough game to umpire.
They use their shield like a politician uses his/her allowances entitlements, with due respect for the long suffering punters (wink).
So cheating is not a word these custodians of the game would use; collective madness, group think, sheepness and industry standard perhaps, but cheat? that's 50 meters buddy and another 50 if you don't smile nicely.

No mate, they clearly cheated in that game. Why ,? I have no effing idea. The only other alternatives are that they are stupid or don't know the rules. But that should work both ways.It didn't.

There is a third option - the rules are convoluted and hard to enforce PROPERLY - so they listen to the crowd to find out what they should do. [Or maybe they were afraid because their cars had Victorian Plates]

[Sainter_Dad]

As a Fan - you have a right to be represented:

Notice of Annual General Meeting of the AFL Fans Association

The details of this meeting are as follows:

Date:
Tuesday 28 May 2024

Time:
7.00pm AEST

Place: The AGM will be conducted as a virtual meeting via Zoom.

Please RSVP your attendance (by 5pm AEST Tuesday 21 May 2024) by emailing secretary@aflfans.org.au with the words “Attending AGM” in the email subject header. We will then provide you with the Zoom login details.

At the meeting, members will have the opportunity to:
Find out about the AFLFA’s operations and finances
Ask questions about the operations and finances of the AFLFA

Items of Business

At the meeting, members will be asked to:

1. Approve the minutes of the 2022 Annual General Meeting
Two members to first and second the minutes

2. Receive and consider the 2024 Annual Report and Financial position of the AFLFA
Two members to first and second the annual and financial reports

3. Elect members of the Committee
All members can vote

The Agenda, Minutes of the 2022 AGM, Financial Report and Annual Report will be emailed to you one week prior to the AGM.

If you are interested in becoming a member of the AFL Fans Association Committee please submit your nomination to secretary@aflfans.org.au by 5pm AEST on Tuesday 21 May 2024.

Proxy

You can access your proxy form HERE, which provides you with the opportunity to appoint a proxy to vote on your behalf. Please complete the form, sign and date it and email to secretary@aflfans.org.au by 5pm AEST on Tuesday 21 May 2024.

Regards,

Mark Costello
Secretary

[The_Dud]

I’m just confused as to where all these passionate umpiring critics were after our games vs Collingwood and Richmond

[Yorkeys]

I’m just confused as to where all these passionate umpiring critics were after our games vs Collingwood and Richmond

Just ponder for a while. A possible answer will form.
Reprise the decisions where you think umpires cheated for us. Then rethink it. Then try to put it all in context.
If your team (whoever you follow Dud) is very often shafted by umpires might their supporters not feel exercised about an occasional rub of the green. Actually mildly pleased. Be careful up on that high horse.

[Teflon]

You’ve got friends tonight, Curly!
That umpiring was utterly disgraceful.
Cop the fine and call it out, Saints!

Absolutely
Would just ONCE stand up and say this isn’t good enough
FFS we’ve become a soft target for these maggotts
Even Pies game imho WE were the beneficiaries that night but it’s just nonsense
Pay the ones that are clearly there
Leave the 50/50’s
Do it consistently
FFS 4 umpires and we are worse than ever
I realise it’s not an easy game but 26-8 should be ringing alarm bells at HQ
Laura Kane has been an unmitigated disaster since taking over
1st she gifts her d club in Nth
Umpires a shambles
MRO (run by 1 guy with no oversight) is a friggin lottery…
Get her out ffs

[Sainter_Dad]

Lets call it what it is - not cheating - but incompetence by overpaid non-professional un-professionals

[Yorkeys]

Lets call it what it is - not cheating - but incompetence by overpaid non-professional un-professionals

If that were the case wouldn't the poor decisions be the same but be equally split between teams so free kick counts would not be so ridiculously one sided?

[saynta]

Lets call it what it is - not cheating - but incompetence by overpaid non-professional un-professionals

If that were the case wouldn't the poor decisions be the same but be equally split between teams so free kick counts would not be so ridiculously one sided?

Yep. 100%

[The_Dud]

Lets call it what it is - not cheating - but incompetence by overpaid non-professional un-professionals

If that were the case wouldn't the poor decisions be the same but be equally split between teams so free kick counts would not be so ridiculously one sided?

We're 120-122 for free kicks this year over 7 games...

[King Max]

Free kick counts are meaningless. You need to look at individual decisions.

With the game on the line at the start of the last quarter the umpires gave three soft frees to Port which resulted in shots at goal.
The first two missed: NWM holding the ball without any prior opportunity, Battle punching the ball and being called for high contact.

Eventually they worked out they needed to give a free closer to goal so plucked one out to Charlie Dixon although there was no evidence of any holding that could be seen on the replays.

Also have a look at the blocking free that was paid against Membrey. He stood at the back of the pack with his arms up in the air and was called for a block on a guy he didn't look at who wasn't going to get near the ball anyhow.
Then look at the point scored by Phillipou? As the ball was floating towards goal, Allir turned around looked at Membrey, took a step towards him to block him and never attempted to get near the ball. Play on of course.

[SaintWiki]

I get the OP statement but winning teams nearly always get strongly favoured by the umpires and we didn't lose simply because of bad umpiring call, although I was shocked over and over again by their pathetic decisions, we lost because we were no-where near good enough with the players we had available. We definitely don't have a positive record in Adelaide and the players didn't have the skills and/or the confidence to smash Port this time. Nevertheless you are welcome to point the finger at the umpires because they were disgraceful.

[Sainter_Dad]

Free kick counts are meaningless. You need to look at individual decisions.

With the game on the line at the start of the last quarter the umpires gave three soft frees to Port which resulted in shots at goal.
The first two missed: NWM holding the ball without any prior opportunity, Battle punching the ball and being called for high contact.

Eventually they worked out they needed to give a free closer to goal so plucked one out to Charlie Dixon although there was no evidence of any holding that could be seen on the replays.

Also have a look at the blocking free that was paid against Membrey. He stood at the back of the pack with his arms up in the air and was called for a block on a guy he didn't look at who wasn't going to get near the ball anyhow.
Then look at the point scored by Phillipou? As the ball was floating towards goal, Allir turned around looked at Membrey, took a step towards him to block him and never attempted to get near the ball. Play on of course.

Not only is it where and when the frees are paid - a few of ours have been paid a free when the player was clearly marking the ball anyway. It is not the number paid - it is the number missed and I am aware that we see it through our St Kilda eyes - but in the above examples it is clear that there is an issue - and the number of neutrals saying the same thing is amazing.

Additionally - but on another topic - if we had been paid a few more frees then players like Higgo would not feel the need to have to drop a player to the ground to prove the ball is dead - but umpires are afraid to blow the whistle - or make a decision (unless the crowd tells them to)

I would be putting the whole Umpire fraternity on trial at Higgo's appeal - Shout Scream Hire Billboards - get fined - but make it known WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!!

[CURLY]

I get the OP statement but winning teams nearly always get strongly favoured by the umpires and we didn't lose simply because of bad umpiring call, although I was shocked over and over again by their pathetic decisions, we lost because we were no-where near good enough with the players we had available. We definitely don't have a positive record in Adelaide and the players didn't have the skills and/or the confidence to smash Port this time. Nevertheless you are welcome to point the finger at the umpires because they were disgraceful.

How can you be no where near good enough and lost by 10 points?

[Yorkeys]

I get the OP statement but winning teams nearly always get strongly favoured by the umpires and we didn't lose simply because of bad umpiring call, although I was shocked over and over again by their pathetic decisions, we lost because we were no-where near good enough with the players we had available. We definitely don't have a positive record in Adelaide and the players didn't have the skills and/or the confidence to smash Port this time. Nevertheless you are welcome to point the finger at the umpires because they were disgraceful.

IMHO: We should resist being seduced into passive, defeatist submission to the media line. Current theme, bash Saints, bash Ross. They can't work out how come Port were clearly so much better in their prejudiced view, were favoured by the umps but it was just 10 points and closing.
Reasoning straight out of the Cornes book of self serving BS comes in to play.
10 points was the margin, i.e. bugger all. But that wasn't the margin in the media heads heads, it was a 60 point drubbing - if you conveniently ignore the performance of those pesky Saints that don't know their place.
The game comprises rules, teams of players oddly matched, random bounces and umpires opinions. VAR would have overturned plenty of the latter.
To blandly say, well Port are a better side so we had no right to win anyway demeans the efforts of the players and coaches. We had as much right to win as Port and as much a right to proper umpiring.
The scoring system is you kick a point its 1. You kick a goal its 6. There is no weighting of the number of scoring shots. Them's the rules.
Ironically when we are inaccurate its poor footy, when its Port its proof of superiority. You miss you miss, no cigar unless you are Port in Adelaide then the umps will give a bonus shot or two, because they are clearly superior. 10 points less than 2 goals. Nothing in it in the end, Port Coach was down to his cuticles.

[The Fireman]

Let's talk about Conspiracy theories

[Yorkeys]

Let's talk about Conspiracy theories

Well, now you mention it, what if those aliens that landed at Norwood were not friendly after all.

[The Fireman]

Let's talk about Conspiracy theories

Well, now you mention it, what if those aliens that landed at Norwood were not friendly after all.

That’s just a conspiracy

[Otiman]

The agenda is even clearer after tonight.

[Yorkeys]

The agenda is even clearer after tonight.

If AFL GHQ are fair dinkum, not just laying groundwork to defend future cases, the tribunal will issue a statement cautioning Allirx2 and players generally about his/their responsibilities in regard to taking care. I haven't read the judgement and know it's a crap analogy, but in respect of vehicle accidents are not users expected to proceed with caution.