AFL exposure for young players

[Scollop]

Damien Hardwick was on AFL 360 tonight and he spoke about the importance of giving them opportunities

He said the VFL is a good competition but playing 2-3 games of AFL is probably like playing 15-20 of VFL

He reckons it’s great education for youngsters to be playing senior games.

Some of them might not be quite ready but we want to expose them and give them a taste. We think it’s important in their development.

I’m happy with what we’re doing. It started even before Lyon when Brett Ratten played Mich Owens in Round 1 2022. I hope we continue to give our draftees senior exposure. I’d like them to get at least 2 consecutive games and at least 3-4 quarters of footy.

In my opinion we need to pencil in games at some stage for Van Es, Keeler and Hotton in 2024

[Devilhead]

We have debuted 4 this year ... just Arie to go

With more experienced players coming back though they might not get many more games (Wilson the exception) but great that they have had a taste

[Scollop]

I edited my post as you were posting. I think we need to provide a taste to the 2022 draftees

[Vortex]

Difference being Dimma isn't being forced to select VFL players.

[Otiman]

I edited my post as you were posting. I think we need to provide a taste to the 2022 draftees

Collard barely opened the door to the restaurant before being turned back out the door.

[Scollop]

I edited my post as you were posting. I think we need to provide a taste to the 2022 draftees

Collard barely opened the door to the restaurant before being turned back out the door.

That’s correct. What’s the point of bringing in him as sub and he only gets a quarter of footy?

Then he’s dropped and goes back to the VFL. It doesn’t aid their development.

[meher baba]

Young players don’t learn anything good from thrashings. I wouldn’t be bringing any more in for the Port game. Perhaps later on

[wally]

I remember years ago hearing thati as part of how Sydney develop young players is to give them a taste early then put them back to the reserves .
They identify what area/s they need to improve and work with the development coaches then next opportunity they are more ready to go

[Life Long Saint]

I'd look at what Geelong do!
They are the best team for developing players. Have been for decades.
Sydney are a close second.

Both have their own reserves team in the VFL that isn't conflicted about being its own team...It serves at the pleasure of the AFL team. We do not have that kind of relationship.
Hard to develop talent to play Saint's footy when they're playing Zebra's footy.
Also, who has ever seen a black, gold, and blue zebra?

[Brunswicksainter]

I'd look at what Geelong do!
They are the best team for developing players. Have been for decades.
Sydney are a close second.

Both have their own reserves team in the VFL that isn't conflicted about being its own team...It serves at the pleasure of the AFL team. We do not have that kind of relationship.
Hard to develop talent to play Saint's footy when they're playing Zebra's footy.
Also, who has ever seen a black, gold, and blue zebra?

I disagree regarding Sydney they’re just handed a lot of gun young talent for peanuts through the academy system.

[Life Long Saint]

I'd look at what Geelong do!
They are the best team for developing players. Have been for decades.
Sydney are a close second.

Both have their own reserves team in the VFL that isn't conflicted about being its own team...It serves at the pleasure of the AFL team. We do not have that kind of relationship.
Hard to develop talent to play Saint's footy when they're playing Zebra's footy.
Also, who has ever seen a black, gold, and blue zebra?

I disagree regarding Sydney they’re just handed a lot of gun young talent for peanuts through the academy system.

I'd guarantee you, we would not develop those kids to the same level that Sydney would.

[Brunswicksainter]

I'd look at what Geelong do!
They are the best team for developing players. Have been for decades.
Sydney are a close second.

Both have their own reserves team in the VFL that isn't conflicted about being its own team...It serves at the pleasure of the AFL team. We do not have that kind of relationship.
Hard to develop talent to play Saint's footy when they're playing Zebra's footy.
Also, who has ever seen a black, gold, and blue zebra?

I disagree regarding Sydney they’re just handed a lot of gun young talent for peanuts through the academy system.

I'd guarantee you, we would not develop those kids to the same level that Sydney would.

Based on what? Virtually of all of Sydney’s gun draft talent over the past decade was plucked for nothing through the academy. They’re given a free ride. Pretty easy to look like you develop talent well when you’re given at least double the amount of high end young talent as everyone else. Let’s have a look at their first round picks that weren’t zoned academy acquisitions.
2023 - none
2022 - Cooper Vickery and Jacob Konstanty - juries out but both look like spuds at this stage
2021 - Angus sheldrick - failed to live up to expectations to date
2020 - Logan McDonald and Breaden Campbell - both
High end picks that are huge busts in my opinion and among the worse players taken in the first round of that years draft.
2019 - Dylan Stephens - again massive bust for a pick 5 and very poorly handled by the club
2018 - Nick Blakely - Been a good player but you could almost make the argument that this was also a suboptimal acquisition when Zak butters, Quaynor where the subsequently picked players. Very strong draft class every top 10 pick has since been a grade (excluding t Thomas)
2017 - Matt Ling - complete bust
2016 - Oliver Florent - solid pick
2015 - Tyrone Leonardis - another bust
2014 - none
2013 - Zak Jones - enough said

So going back 10 years Sydney has successfully developed just 2 first round picks (not picked up through academy) into good players. Does this read to you like a team that has been successful at developing players? I wouldn’t have thought so.

[cwrcyn]

Nick Blakey was Father/Son

[B.M]

Father Son?

His dad played for Fitzroy and North

[B.M]

StK run Sandringham

Have done for years

Batchelor- StK employee
Hayes - St employee
Carroll - StK employee

They are the coaches at Sandy

[Scollop]

I remember years ago hearing thati as part of how Sydney develop young players is to give them a taste early then put them back to the reserves .
They identify what area/s they need to improve and work with the development coaches then next opportunity they are more ready to go

I reckon that's a smart strategy

We gave Lance Collard 1 quarter of footy against Geelong and dropped him after he had zero touches. Wasn't his fault. He was actually in the right position twice and got burnt by his team mates.

Then...You have the other extreme. Young guys like Mattaes Phillipou were asked to play every single game last year. I don't think it's fair on the player...And it's not fair on the team if that player is performing below his best.

That's exactly what happened with Phillipou towards the end of last year. We did not bother giving him a rest at any stage.

I hope we don't do the same thing with Darcy Wilson.

Even our 3rd year players like Nasiah Wanganeen-Millera, Marcus Windhager and Mich Owens could be rested at some stage.

It's not a crazy idea to manage some of your most talented youngsters. It's going to benefit them long term, and it will most likely freshen them up and keep them sharp when they return in the short term.

[cwrcyn]

Don't know why I got it into my head that John Blakey had played for Sydney. Was he an assistant coach there at some point?

[SaintPav]

Don't know why I got it into my head that John Blakey had played for Sydney. Was he an assistant coach there at some point?

He was up until a few years ago. He then went to Norf and left at the end of last season.

[Life Long Saint]

StK run Sandringham

Have done for years

Batchelor- StK employee
Hayes - St employee
Carroll - StK employee

They are the coaches at Sandy

They are three of the six coaches.
I am not sure that having 3 staff members constitutes running the club.
Show me anywhere in their about page, or strategic direction they mention the St Kilda Football Club.
The best we get is a link on the page...along with links to the VFL, and the two womens teams (StK AFLW and Southern Saints).

How many of our senior players spend time developing in the VFL and come in as ready to go, contributing members of the AFL team?
Most of our recruits in the senior team were developed at other clubs. Hill, Marshall, Wilkie, Crouch, Higgins, Jones, Steele, Stocker, Butler, Hayes, Howard, Cordy, Henry, Membrey, Wood, Bonner, and even Caminiti were developed under another system to ours.
Most of the other draftees are either languishing in the VFL or have been playing regularly in the seniors.

Sandringham are clearly their own club with their own goals and vision. Yes, the senior coach and two of his assistants are St Kilda employees...But it's clear that the Zebras don't exist to serve the St Kilda Football Club...But that's the relationship we need with a VFL team.

[Saints58]

I agree we need a Saints VFL side play out of Moorabbin under our system. All our players would play and train at RESA park all the time not train there a few times then off to Sandy to train as well it can not be good for continuity of footy.
Plus the sandy ground is terrible to play on and very small it doesn't lead to good footy

[Scollop]

The development side is equally as important as the recruitment and list management. If Ross Lyon truly loves St Kilda...then at the end of his tenure...wait for it...

... he should become coach of Sandringham

Whenever that time comes -2027/2028 ??....and I'm certainly not suggesting he should be replaced as senior coach anytime soon.

It shouldn't be seen as going backwards. It shouldn't be viewed purely in 'career' terms. Change the narrative and don't focus on your personal goals and ambitions.

If he takes control of the change over and he announces his successor and at the same time tells members and Saints fans that he wants to support the club by becoming development coach and VFL coach of Sandy, then the media and footy fans will respect that.

... c'mon Ross. Give back mate. Forget the ego. Truly build something and leave a legacy.

[B.M]

StK definitely control Sandy - on field

As any ex Sandy player

It is generally why the Sandy players leave - it’s all about serving StKs players needs!