List speculation from Jon Ralph

[Sanctorum]

Following article by Jon Ralph in today's Herald Sun, overall I think it's quite a good assessment of the players that have not so far been signed up for next year and some interesting observations about options from other clubs.

"10 KEY DECISIONS FOR BOSS ROSS

Salary cap space can be a weapon. Clubs mostly use it to spend up on overpriced free agents or lock up megastars as rivals circle.

But the Saints could take the opposite approach and pay established players to play elsewhere.

Say what?

Call it the Saints getting in early on pick purchasing, a list mechanism the league is considering to allow clubs with cap space to effectively hand that salary cap room to rivals to buy early picks.

Why in hell would they do that?

Because St Kilda needs to bring in established talent like Fremantle wingman Liam Henry without compromising a full suite of draft picks. And the only real trade collateral they would be prepared to offer up are players such as Dougal Howard and Jack Billings who have salary cap obligations that might dissuade rivals from considering trades.

Fremantle wingman Henry on Saturday chose St Kilda over Hawthorn given his ties to ex-Docker Brad Hill and his belief Ross Lyon could get the most out of him despite the strong impression Hawthorn coach Sam Mitchell made on the former No. 9 pick. Fremantle is keen for a draft pick between 15-25. The problem for St Kilda is it needs to hang onto its picks.

The Saints solution to bringing in A grade midfield talent isn’t by handing over early selections for any of the gettable midfielders around – and there are plenty in Geelong’s Brandan Parfitt, Gold Coast’s Elijah Hollands, Collingwood’s Finlay Macrae and Brisbane’s Dev Robertson.

Carlton’s Paddy Dow makes a heck of a lot of trade sense given he is averaging 6.3 clearances and 3.5 centre square clearances in his past six games.

And as every St Kilda fans knows, the kids are the future in Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (pick 11), Mitch Owens (pick 33), Mattaes Phillipou (pick 10), Liam Stocker (pick 19 at Carlton) and Marcus Windhager (pick 47). Rookie Cooper Sharman took a big step forward in the second half of the season and Anthony Caminiti might be something even if he was subbed out at half time in the elimination final.

The Saints have picks 12, 31 and 50 and can’t lose them, especially when Phillipou and Wanganeen-Milera were taken in the top 12 as a comparison.

Billings’ manager Paul Connors is attempting to find a new home for the small forward, but he has two seasons to go on a deal that owes him $500,000 or
more per season. So if a rival is baulking at Billings’ contract, surely the Saints could consider paying a chunk of that salary? He still won’t guarantee a king’s ransom, but it could turn a trade using a thirdround pick into a late second and get closer to satisfying Fremantle on Henry.

The Dockers’ trade demand is an early ambit claim but in the end a late second-rounder might get it done.

In a week where Blake Acres showed exactly how the wing position can be played, Henry is exactly that hardrunning, fleet-footed player who could grow into an elite wingman. In 16 games this year he averaged 20 possessions, 310 metres gained and 3.6 score involvements. His best was spectacular – 32 possessions and 514 metres gained against Essendon.

Ross Lyon knows he needs to “build out” the club’s midfield, aware Jack Steele fought a one-man war against thebrilliant Giants’ onball unit. But the finals berth gave him time toeschew quick fixes such as giving awaymultiple first-rounders on a Tim Taranto type or throwing millions at a free agent.

Having delayed so many contracts to assess St Kilda’s progress, what are the big list decisions Ross Lyon must make to progress in 2024?

1. HUNTER CLARK
North Melbourne came for him last year and St Kilda only baulked when Jordan De Goey stayed at the Pies. He played 19 games this year but kicked only four goals and went at only 58 per cent efficiency. His significant contract of over $500,000 has expired, and while he is only 24, the Saints should be open to
offers for the former No. 7 pick.

2. JADE GRESHAM
Played every game including a solid seven-tackle, 17 possession final. He won’t trigger first-round compo elsewhere and the Saints are keen to resign him anyway.

3. NICK COFFIELD
A second straight season where he didn’t play a game through injury. It’s hard to see how where the former No.8 pick fits into the back six given Jack Sinclair, Wanganeen-Milera and Jimmy Webster have the starting spots, so he has little trade currency. A modest new deal?

4. JACK BILLINGS
As manager Paul Connors said recently, there is interest in the contracted Billings but after just three AFL games this year coming off a broken leg it would be a leap of faith to take him at asking price, which is why the Saints might have to sweeten the deal to move him on.

5. DOUGAL HOWARD
St Kilda could consider off-loading the defender who has one more season worth up to $600,000. Zaine Cordy has two more years left on his deal and is still only 26, so the Saints might believe they can play Cordy instead at half the price.

6. LIAM STOCKER
Half-back Stocker will sign a new deal after becoming a St Kilda success story playing every game after being delisted by Carlton.

7. JIMMY WEBSTER
The former left-footed distributor turned into a lockdown defender in a role Ben Paton had usually assumed and did it with aplomb. But at 30 he might only get a one-year deal offer.

8. ZAK JONES
Jones will not get a repeat of the lucrative deal he signed to cross from Sydney but his toughness in the contest is exactly what St Kilda needs. He played
only three full games with quad and medial ligament issues but at 28 he is part of the solution at St Kilda. At his best he adds real grit and a touch of class.

9. DAN MCKENZIE
Calf issues ruined his 2023 campaign and his deal expires. He can play as a lockdown defender or as a wingman but Lyon hasn’t seen his capabilities. Would
be hoping for a one-year deal.

10. RYAN BYRNES
Played 20 games on the wing averaging 17 possessions in a position Henry will hope to secure. At 23 the Saints need to keep developing him.

OTHERS OUT OF CONTRACT:
Oscar Adams, Tom Campbell, Tom Highmore."

[Otiman]

You heard Ross at the start of the year, why should we be paying the same amount for a team who finishes 7th as those who win the flag?

We will sell cap space if we can.

[The G Train Legacy]

Interesting article. We're going to need to be creative to improve our draft hand and List.

[shanegrambeau]

Could we do a North Melbourne of the mid 70s?

Why not?

Rules, caps, regulations, managers??

Maybe

We certainly are audacious

Look at the Ratts sacking ! Who asked for a Foory Director deal at North btw, and they said no thanks

Some will say - including RTB - you can’t just ‘buy a team’ .
Well North did, and it game them, I argue, nearly 40 years of momentum and success, given where they came from.
Not to mention that they even still exist let alone get to call themselves North Melbourne.

With Tassie coming online and GWS and GC and even Sydney still getting favours, could it be the time to strike?

We have many players who have deteriorated either as prospects or performers since 2020. Offset by the new brigade of ‘stars’ .. of which only Owens,NWM and King have shown star potential. (Windy, Caminiti, Hayes and Pou were disappointing in my book, though they’ll rightly have chances)

[saintsRrising]

Could we do a North Melbourne of the mid 70s?

Why not?

Because the 10 year rule is long gone.

North voted against the new rule. But then acted swiftly when it came in to nab 3 huge starts at the peak of their powers.

https://www.theroar.com.au/2010/02/24/r ... from-1973/



But yes hopefully we use use salary dumping to bring in some good young talent that we otherwise would not be able to..

I have been posting for a while that with Billings belong on a large contract for 2 years, that the only way we will geta good draft pick and/or player for him is if we pay a large part or even all of his contract.

Billings will not want to walk away from his guaranteed large contract, and other clubs will not want to pay it unless they gave us peanuts (ie We salary dump to them. Whereas if we continue to pay we effectively can buya higher pic or player.

[magnifisaint]

Jon Ralph is a moron.

[terry smith rules]

None of the midfielders he names are anywhere near A Grade (why does the grass always look greener)

Paddy Dow has played 6 good games Whopee! So did Luke Dunstan at the end of 2021. He’s played 73 games and been in and out of an ordinary (at times) Carlton

Yes he may turn his career around but do we want to bet on that after 6 ok games

As for the others named pfft

[B.M]

Is this some sort of joke?

BTW
That list of players looks familiar

[B.M]

We are going to fkn pay someone to play elsewhere?!

[B.M]

And we are making a play at a mechanism that isn’t even currently in the AFL

And is a ridiculous idea!

[Vortex]

Is this some sort of joke?

BTW
That list of players looks familiar

I believe they call it a mass exodus.

[B.M]

I think the mass exodus is true - someone else speculated that a few weeks back

It’s the strategy that is a joke!

And BTW
Just because the club does something, doesn’t make it right!
Wasn’t in 2009
Wasn’t in 2012/13/14
Wasn’t in the Hill trade

And won’t be this year - it’s a huge gamble - it most likely will be spoken about in 5 years - only this time it’ll be Silvagni’s fault!

[Vortex]

I think the mass exodus is true - someone else speculated that a few weeks back

It’s the strategy that is a joke!

And BTW
Just because the club does something, doesn’t make it right!
Wasn’t in 2009
Wasn’t in 2012/13/14
Wasn’t in the Hill trade

And won’t be this year - it’s a huge gamble - it most likely will be spoken about in 5 years - only this time it’ll be Silvagni’s fault!

It's everything wrong with the business model of a coach replacement also meaning football departments get cleaned out also when the new coach comes in. The recruitment department should be owned and run by the club with only the coach having a seat at the table, (not the head of the table).

It's also everything wrong with most AFL club boards being hijacked by corporate high fliers looking to pad out the CV and add some gravitas to their personality, more football people should be on club boards, imagine Leigh Mathews on your board.

[Otiman]

We are going to fkn pay someone to play elsewhere?!

We don't pay. We allocate our salary cap space to other clubs in trade for picks or players. It allows us to pay further under the cap, and other teams to exceed the cap by giving up picks/players.

[B.M]

Wtf would we allow opposing side to have MORE cap space and us pay under?!

Let’s say the cap space is 10M

We pay 9.5M
And allow Melbourne to pay 10.5M

How is that equalisation and HTF do we compete with a team paying 1M more in their Cap?!

Why not be like the MLB which allow the Yankees to monster
Or Man City in the EPL

How do teams compete with those paying more to those paying less?!
It’s just ANOTHER way big clubs will dominate and boutique clubs like ours will be selling good players and cap space to other clubs

It’s ridiculous

[B.M]

And in the article there was a suggestion we pay part of Billings Contract?

[Saint 58]

The only salary cap change should be - no minimum total
If you can pay half your cap, good luck to you
Why pay average players extra to reach the cap limit
This also frees up $$ to attract players

[Otiman]

Wtf would we allow opposing side to have MORE cap space and us pay under?!

Because there is a trade deal for picks or players, and it's only temporary. I am not sure how many years ahead they're talking about being able to trade.

[saynta]

Jon Ralph is a moron.

Yep, that he is.

[Yorkeys]

There seems no point in such speculation. Reporting fact used to be the go.
AFL media has gone nuts.
Opinions real or confected are now as ubiquitous as arse holes but far less useful.

[saynta]

Is this some sort of joke?

BTW
That list of players looks familiar

Yeah, I think the flog has been reading this forum.

[Saints58]

How about fixing up the academy's for the Vic teams so that we don't have to wait to pick 40 before we can get one of our own players we have developed that would be a start the interstate teams get enough leg up its about time we stood up to the AFL about this.

[Scollop]

Wtf would we allow opposing side to have MORE cap space and us pay under?!

Because there is a trade deal for picks or players, and it's only temporary. I am not sure how many years ahead they're talking about being able to trade.

Next.... we could trade out the services of some of our staff to other clubs or some of the volunteers.

We'll pay their salary if it's staff, and if they're volunteers, we can hire them out and charge other clubs or get them to hand over a 3rd round pick perhaps.

Do any clubs need a dodgy operator like Gubby. Or... It wouldn't be too difficult to sell the services of the Angels. They're great cooks.