Supporters need perspective

[Scollop]

Do you want me to make the call and book you in or are you going to do it yourself?

Teffers... I'm concerned for you

4 weeks should do it. And lose your ss log in. Maybe it's not going to be a happy place here after round 24

Scollop why do you have to be such a dick about it? Teflon posts the truth.

I don’t understand why you all have such a hate for Ross LYON? The standards have improved heaps in the club.

Ironically….yes ….I think you Vort your little mates …actually…could be 1 person …
The consistency in hate gives it away

Teflon posts the truth.... Of course he does

[meher baba]

Lyon is a proven good coach. He attracts a bit of the tall poppy syndrome by his rather pompous and smug way of talking to the media.

It’s pretty clear to me that the team is generally playing better this year than last: especially defensively. I think a case can be made that Lyon’s structure and game plan are a bit too predictable and thereby too easily countered by other coaches: who, after all, have now had a decade and a half to work out how to do it. This might be a problem in the longer term: time will tell.

Next year was always going to be the crunch year. I’m happy to wait for then. If it’s no better than this year, then it might be time to panic.

In short: in Ross we trust. For now.

[Saint2]

Long term Saints supporters have had plenty of perspective, lots of excuses and too long in the waiting room waiting for the next miracle to happen. IMO Lyon had had his day and should never have been appointed, and I see it just as PR exercise by Basset.

[saynta]

Long term Saints supporters have had plenty of perspective, lots of excuses and too long in the waiting room waiting for the next miracle to happen. IMO Lyon had had his day and should never have been appointed, and I see it just as PR exercise by Basset.

Well said. The truth is out there and it hurts......some people.

[older saint]

Lyon is a proven good coach. He attracts a bit of the tall poppy syndrome by his rather pompous and smug way of talking to the media.

It’s pretty clear to me that the team is generally playing better this year than last: especially defensively. I think a case can be made that Lyon’s structure and game plan are a bit too predictable and thereby too easily countered by other coaches: who, after all, have now had a decade and a half to work out how to do it. This might be a problem in the longer term: time will tell.

Next year was always going to be the crunch year. I’m happy to wait for then. If it’s no better than this year, then it might be time to panic.

In short: in Ross we trust. For now.

We are currently the 2nd best in regard to points against in the comp so that supports your position. An overall game plan takes years to implement in its entirety and no surprise RL started with defence. Plenty other coaches decided to start with offence and see how that worked for them - Rutton, Nobel, Teague.
Expect the offence to be better next year and beyond but like it or not defence wins GF's, aside form Melb v WB most finals are either one sided blow outs or hard fought slogs.

[Teflon]

Do you want me to make the call and book you in or are you going to do it yourself?

Teffers... I'm concerned for you

4 weeks should do it. And lose your ss log in. Maybe it's not going to be a happy place here after round 24

Scollop why do you have to be such a dick about it? Teflon posts the truth.

I don’t understand why you all have such a hate for Ross LYON? The standards have improved heaps in the club.

Ironically….yes ….I think you Vort your little mates …actually…could be 1 person …
The consistency in hate gives it away

Teflon posts the truth.... Of course he does

Come to me (and Ross)…and we shall set you free….

[Teflon]

Lyon is a proven good coach. He attracts a bit of the tall poppy syndrome by his rather pompous and smug way of talking to the media.

It’s pretty clear to me that the team is generally playing better this year than last: especially defensively. I think a case can be made that Lyon’s structure and game plan are a bit too predictable and thereby too easily countered by other coaches: who, after all, have now had a decade and a half to work out how to do it. This might be a problem in the longer term: time will tell.

Next year was always going to be the crunch year. I’m happy to wait for then. If it’s no better than this year, then it might be time to panic.

In short: in Ross we trust. For now.

I think that’s at least partially fair
I give Lyon 2 years - Ratten had 3 Richo 6
After that it’s all his
I watched us against Hawks kick over 100 - that’s not Ross Lyon of old
Nor first half against Blues - we smashed them…even Cripps said they felt it…
We just fell away
Add sone class to that list think we’d go ok
And some leadership

[Teflon]

Long term Saints supporters have had plenty of perspective, lots of excuses and too long in the waiting room waiting for the next miracle to happen. IMO Lyon had had his day and should never have been appointed, and I see it just as PR exercise by Basset.

Well said. The truth is out there and it hurts......some people.

Comedy hour again
Just the “vibe” don’t like Ross lol

[Teflon]

Lyon is a proven good coach. He attracts a bit of the tall poppy syndrome by his rather pompous and smug way of talking to the media.

It’s pretty clear to me that the team is generally playing better this year than last: especially defensively. I think a case can be made that Lyon’s structure and game plan are a bit too predictable and thereby too easily countered by other coaches: who, after all, have now had a decade and a half to work out how to do it. This might be a problem in the longer term: time will tell.

Next year was always going to be the crunch year. I’m happy to wait for then. If it’s no better than this year, then it might be time to panic.

In short: in Ross we trust. For now.

We are currently the 2nd best in regard to points against in the comp so that supports your position. An overall game plan takes years to implement in its entirety and no surprise RL started with defence. Plenty other coaches decided to start with offence and see how that worked for them - Rutton, Nobel, Teague.
Expect the offence to be better next year and beyond but like it or not defence wins GF's, aside form Melb v WB most finals are either one sided blow outs or hard fought slogs.

Great, insightful post

[magnifisaint]

That's what Alan Jeans used to say. You can't win a premiership without a great defence.

I'm just wondering if everyone has calmed down by now. I was still livid yesterday but feel more at ease today.

[SinCitySainter]

I don't actually care about the win/loss record this year.
I care about the style of football we play.
We have a coach that plays the most negative brand of anti-football I have ever seen.
Everything we do is designed to stifle the oppositions ability to score even if it also stifles ours.
The tactics we use are standard Soccer tactics get everyone behind the ball and then either try to hit them on the break and if that doesn't work we are stuck for ideas.
This could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals that can hit targets at will, like the side we had in 2009, we don't have that.
The biggest criticisms of Ross last time he was here was that he had no plan B when things weren't going to plan and he had never had to develop a team.
He is going to have to show that he can develop a team here as he hasn't been handed a top 4 side like he was last time.
However, he still appears to have no plan B.
I am sorry I am just not going to prostrate myself at the alter of Ross as others appear to want to.
At this stage it still looks to me like the emperor has no clothes.

[bigcarl]

People are talking like it’s season over and tbh that is how it feels.

However last time I looked we are still in the final eight and might as well have a crack at staying there. It’s not really a must though as realistically we’re not challengers. But it would be nice to give some of those kids a look at finals action.

If we bring our best football we could beat both of Richmond and Geelong.

Biggest concerns are the midfield’s complete obliteration in the second half and total inability to score. One goal in a half is not on.

The puzzle is what caused us to go into our shells and lose all confidence? Surely we weren’t trying to protect a four-goal lead. You have to keep the scoreboard pressure on.

I think commit to Owens in the starting midfield. Got to start winning clearances. He was down on Sunday, but he has plenty of mates.

Forward line, I think Hayes comes in for Sharman. He can give Marshall the help he needs in the ruck. Stick with Caminiti and King as the key talls.

I’d be looking to get Coffield back in somewhere. He’s a class player

[Teflon]

That's what Alan Jeans used to say. You can't win a premiership without a great defence.

I'm just wondering if everyone has calmed down by now. I was still livid yesterday but feel more at ease today.

I was surprisingly not livid at all
I sat there watching the downhill skiers go missing then just sat back and watched a more highly skilled midfield unit get to work
No point getting angry when you realise …you just don’t have the cattle
1st half pressure was superb - no surprise ball movement looked good too
But workmanlike pressure gets you so far
Once Cripps n co - generating mids, not four defensive mids git going ….goodnight nurse
No point in getting angry
Senior on field leadership is non existent

[Teflon]

I don't actually care about the win/loss record this year.
I care about the style of football we play.
We have a coach that plays the most negative brand of anti-football I have ever seen.
Everything we do is designed to stifle the oppositions ability to score even if it also stifles ours.
The tactics we use are standard Soccer tactics get everyone behind the ball and then either try to hit them on the break and if that doesn't work we are stuck for ideas.
This could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals that can hit targets at will, like the side we had in 2009, we don't have that.
The biggest criticisms of Ross last time he was here was that he had no plan B when things weren't going to plan and he had never had to develop a team.
He is going to have to show that he can develop a team here as he hasn't been handed a top 4 side like he was last time.
However, he still appears to have no plan B.
I am sorry I am just not going to prostrate myself at the alter of Ross as others appear to want to.
At this stage it still looks to me like the emperor has no clothes.

But you were ok with 18 goals last week and a 5 goal lead at HT against the form side of the comp ?
Prostrate away.. but look a little deeper

[SinCitySainter]

I don't actually care about the win/loss record this year.
I care about the style of football we play.
We have a coach that plays the most negative brand of anti-football I have ever seen.
Everything we do is designed to stifle the oppositions ability to score even if it also stifles ours.
The tactics we use are standard Soccer tactics get everyone behind the ball and then either try to hit them on the break and if that doesn't work we are stuck for ideas.
This could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals that can hit targets at will, like the side we had in 2009, we don't have that.
The biggest criticisms of Ross last time he was here was that he had no plan B when things weren't going to plan and he had never had to develop a team.
He is going to have to show that he can develop a team here as he hasn't been handed a top 4 side like he was last time.
However, he still appears to have no plan B.
I am sorry I am just not going to prostrate myself at the alter of Ross as others appear to want to.
At this stage it still looks to me like the emperor has no clothes.

But you were ok with 18 goals last week and a 5 goal lead at HT against the form side of the comp ?
Prostrate away.. but look a little deeper

Let's put the 19 goals from last week into perspective shall we.
We kicked 19 goals and 8 behinds, 27 scoring shots a great effort but against the third from bottom side and an absolute anomaly for the season as far as accuracy and attack is concerned.
Yes I was pleased that we were 5 goals up at half time, but that was from 9 scoring shots to 7 so we were playing a little better than Carlton at that point.
In the second half we had 5 scoring shots to 16 that is a rodgering of epic proportions.

Do you know what really upset me about the game though?
It wasn't the score line, it wasn't even that we were absolutely monstered in the second half.
I can live with both of those, Carlton were the better side.
No, it was that when we were chasing the game we still played an ultra defensive, take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out that is why I am disappointed with the game.

I guess though that this is the Ross that so many people want, the Cobblers cobbling so to speak.
The problem with that approach is that he doesn't have the wealth of high end talent we had last time.
His style needs that talent and I don't know how he will get the players in from mid table obscurity.

[Teflon]

I don't actually care about the win/loss record this year.
I care about the style of football we play.
We have a coach that plays the most negative brand of anti-football I have ever seen.
Everything we do is designed to stifle the oppositions ability to score even if it also stifles ours.
The tactics we use are standard Soccer tactics get everyone behind the ball and then either try to hit them on the break and if that doesn't work we are stuck for ideas.
This could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals that can hit targets at will, like the side we had in 2009, we don't have that.
The biggest criticisms of Ross last time he was here was that he had no plan B when things weren't going to plan and he had never had to develop a team.
He is going to have to show that he can develop a team here as he hasn't been handed a top 4 side like he was last time.
However, he still appears to have no plan B.
I am sorry I am just not going to prostrate myself at the alter of Ross as others appear to want to.
At this stage it still looks to me like the emperor has no clothes.

But you were ok with 18 goals last week and a 5 goal lead at HT against the form side of the comp ?
Prostrate away.. but look a little deeper

Let's put the 19 goals from last week into perspective shall we.
We kicked 19 goals and 8 behinds, 27 scoring shots a great effort but against the third from bottom side and an absolute anomaly for the season as far as accuracy and attack is concerned.
Yes I was pleased that we were 5 goals up at half time, but that was from 9 scoring shots to 7 so we were playing a little better than Carlton at that point.
In the second half we had 5 scoring shots to 16 that is a rodgering of epic proportions.

Do you know what really upset me about the game though?
It wasn't the score line, it wasn't even that we were absolutely monstered in the second half.
I can live with both of those, Carlton were the better side.
No, it was that when we were chasing the game we still played an ultra defensive, take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out that is why I am disappointed with the game.

I guess though that this is the Ross that so many people want, the Cobblers cobbling so to speak.
The problem with that approach is that he doesn't have the wealth of high end talent we had last time.
His style needs that talent and I don't know how he will get the players in from mid table obscurity.

But the coach has said they changed NOTHING so your assumption is what was dished up in last half was instructed- I call BS
They had no issue moving ball first half ?
What changed was the performance of players going into their shell and **** all on field leadership

[shanegrambeau]

.. I care about the style...
... most negative brand...
...designed to stifle the oppositions ability...
..could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals...
... no plan B...
...never had to develop a team.
... emperor has no clothes.

..

...take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out...
......
His style needs that talent...

I get the anger.
I am out of sorts these last two days..

respectfully disagree with your thesis but enjoyed reading ..(it's nice when we talk about the footy and not other posters, even indirectly)

a) I think the game plan suits low skilled players and players who are new to a coach and new to a game plan. Percentage tennis at all costs. Learn by the numbers, etc. So I pretty much reject your thesis that it only suits highly skilled players. I think the opposite.
b) No Plan B? they tried moving Owens forward, and Sincs into the mid. So Sincs is visible and Crouch and Steele go AWOL. Ball never gets forward so Owens effectively taken out of the game. Result. major fail. But they did try.
c) No team to develop, emperor no clothes? Nope again. Is developing a team. Does have a game plan. It has worked. Emperor is dressed up in hype and tall poppy that basically birds are circling to take an opportunistic sh*t on.

[GSG]

Long term Saints supporters have had plenty of perspective, lots of excuses and too long in the waiting room waiting for the next miracle to happen. IMO Lyon had had his day and should never have been appointed, and I see it just as PR exercise by Basset.

I totally agree. Couldn't have said it better.

[Scollop]

I don't actually care about the win/loss record this year.
I care about the style of football we play.
We have a coach that plays the most negative brand of anti-football I have ever seen.
Everything we do is designed to stifle the oppositions ability to score even if it also stifles ours.
The tactics we use are standard Soccer tactics get everyone behind the ball and then either try to hit them on the break and if that doesn't work we are stuck for ideas.
This could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals that can hit targets at will, like the side we had in 2009, we don't have that.
The biggest criticisms of Ross last time he was here was that he had no plan B when things weren't going to plan and he had never had to develop a team.
He is going to have to show that he can develop a team here as he hasn't been handed a top 4 side like he was last time.
However, he still appears to have no plan B.
I am sorry I am just not going to prostrate myself at the alter of Ross as others appear to want to.
At this stage it still looks to me like the emperor has no clothes.

But you were ok with 18 goals last week and a 5 goal lead at HT against the form side of the comp ?
Prostrate away.. but look a little deeper

Let's put the 19 goals from last week into perspective shall we.
We kicked 19 goals and 8 behinds, 27 scoring shots a great effort but against the third from bottom side and an absolute anomaly for the season as far as accuracy and attack is concerned.
Yes I was pleased that we were 5 goals up at half time, but that was from 9 scoring shots to 7 so we were playing a little better than Carlton at that point.
In the second half we had 5 scoring shots to 16 that is a rodgering of epic proportions.

Do you know what really upset me about the game though?
It wasn't the score line, it wasn't even that we were absolutely monstered in the second half.
I can live with both of those, Carlton were the better side.
No, it was that when we were chasing the game we still played an ultra defensive, take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out that is why I am disappointed with the game.

I guess though that this is the Ross that so many people want, the Cobblers cobbling so to speak.
The problem with that approach is that he doesn't have the wealth of high end talent we had last time.
His style needs that talent and I don't know how he will get the players in from mid table obscurity.

But the coach has said they changed NOTHING so your assumption is what was dished up in last half was instructed- I call BS
They had no issue moving ball first half ?
What changed was the performance of players going into their shell and **** all on field leadership

Maybe if Lyon finds another Shane Charters/Steven Dank type operators they could work out ways to have a group of athletes that are super human and could stay on the field for the full 120 minutes in each game

We'd get an injection ( haha) of on field leadership and they'd be the perfect super athletes required for the perfect super coach.

[Teflon]

.. I care about the style...
... most negative brand...
...designed to stifle the oppositions ability...
..could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals...
... no plan B...
...never had to develop a team.
... emperor has no clothes.

..

...take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out...
......
His style needs that talent...

I get the anger.
I am out of sorts these last two days..

respectfully disagree with your thesis but enjoyed reading ..(it's nice when we talk about the footy and not other posters, even indirectly)

a) I think the game plan suits low skilled players and players who are new to a coach and new to a game plan. Percentage tennis at all costs. Learn by the numbers, etc. So I pretty much reject your thesis that it only suits highly skilled players. I think the opposite.
b) No Plan B? they tried moving Owens forward, and Sincs into the mid. So Sincs is visible and Crouch and Steele go AWOL. Ball never gets forward so Owens effectively taken out of the game. Result. major fail. But they did try.
c) No team to develop, emperor no clothes? Nope again. Is developing a team. Does have a game plan. It has worked. Emperor is dressed up in hype and tall poppy that basically birds are circling to take an opportunistic sh*t on.

Much more balanced than I
Well said

[shanegrambeau]

.. I care about the style...
... most negative brand...
...designed to stifle the oppositions ability...
..could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals...
... no plan B...
...never had to develop a team.
... emperor has no clothes.

..

...take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out...
......
His style needs that talent...

I get the anger.
I am out of sorts these last two days..

respectfully disagree with your thesis but enjoyed reading ..(it's nice when we talk about the footy and not other posters, even indirectly)

a) I think the game plan suits low skilled players and players who are new to a coach and new to a game plan. Percentage tennis at all costs. Learn by the numbers, etc. So I pretty much reject your thesis that it only suits highly skilled players. I think the opposite.
b) No Plan B? they tried moving Owens forward, and Sincs into the mid. So Sincs is visible and Crouch and Steele go AWOL. Ball never gets forward so Owens effectively taken out of the game. Result. major fail. But they did try.
c) No team to develop, emperor no clothes? Nope again. Is developing a team. Does have a game plan. It has worked. Emperor is dressed up in hype and tall poppy that basically birds are circling to take an opportunistic sh*t on.

Much more balanced than I
Well said

There is a bad side to this approach however...
I suspect players like Steele and Windy might suffer in the tighter strictures of the game plan.
It is only speculation here, but I do wonder if some talented stars have been 'strangled'. On the otherhand, players like NWM and Hill have thrived and players like Gresh are getting away with being selfish too. Why and how? Was Gresh following team rules when he didn't give off to Butler and Sharman ?

[SaintPav]

Brains before perspective, but I can think of one or two on here where a lobotomy would enhance their perspective.

[Teflon]

Brains before perspective, but I can think of one or two on here where a lobotomy would enhance their perspective.

I’ve got certainties on here where there is nothing to actually perform a lobotomy on..

[Teflon]

.. I care about the style...
... most negative brand...
...designed to stifle the oppositions ability...
..could work if we had a team full of highly skilled individuals...
... no plan B...
...never had to develop a team.
... emperor has no clothes.

..

...take the ball wide at every opportunity minimise the impact game plan.
Five minutes to go and we are just over two goals down and we don't even look to attack just to stop the score blowing out...
......
His style needs that talent...

I get the anger.
I am out of sorts these last two days..

respectfully disagree with your thesis but enjoyed reading ..(it's nice when we talk about the footy and not other posters, even indirectly)

a) I think the game plan suits low skilled players and players who are new to a coach and new to a game plan. Percentage tennis at all costs. Learn by the numbers, etc. So I pretty much reject your thesis that it only suits highly skilled players. I think the opposite.
b) No Plan B? they tried moving Owens forward, and Sincs into the mid. So Sincs is visible and Crouch and Steele go AWOL. Ball never gets forward so Owens effectively taken out of the game. Result. major fail. But they did try.
c) No team to develop, emperor no clothes? Nope again. Is developing a team. Does have a game plan. It has worked. Emperor is dressed up in hype and tall poppy that basically birds are circling to take an opportunistic sh*t on.

Much more balanced than I
Well said

There is a bad side to this approach however...
I suspect players like Steele and Windy might suffer in the tighter strictures of the game plan.
It is only speculation here, but I do wonder if some talented stars have been 'strangled'. On the otherhand, players like NWM and Hill have thrived and players like Gresh are getting away with being selfish too. Why and how? Was Gresh following team rules when he didn't give off to Butler and Sharman ?

I think you’re drawing long bows
Steele isn’t a creative mid - he’s not Petracca Bont or Cripps…he’s more Crouch…this game style should suit his second to the footy tackle style
Windhager- don’t know what mid he is yet
Gresham gone - he knows it

[Scollop]

Steele isn’t a creative mid - he’s not Petracca Bont or Cripps…he’s more Crouch…this game style should suit his second to the footy tackle style

Has Brad Crouch polled more votes than Bont, Oliver, Cripps and Perracca in the Brownlow?

https://www.saints.com.au/news/828310/s ... nlow-medal

You need a little more talent than just being a ‘second to the footy tackle style’ player to get a podium finish at the Brownlow.

Also…let’s not forget…Ryan Crowley…Clint Jones and Brad Crouch have never worn an All Australian jacket

Jack’s earnt AA honours twice. Anyhoo….thanks for your insight Mr Football

Labelling Steele as not creative is wrong. It’s ignoring the fact that at times he’s asked to perform a role.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/08/25/ ... lian-team/