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Killa wrote: ↑Thu 29 Jun 2023 11:54pm
Bytel’s performance last week did not demand AFL selection - he was workmanlike in conditions which suited him
Billings….
Cordy…..
There is a guy on our coaching panel who was a big wrap for Bytel and he pushed hard for Jack to play in our practice games early in the year. Lenny Hayes backed Bytel and I believe Bytel delivered with some creditable performances prior to round 1. Bytel was also named in the team for round 1.
From all reports, Bytel performed his role in that win in round 1 against Freo with some crucial centre clearances when the game was in the balance. Is Lenny Hayes a mug?
Last week, with Seb Ross absent, was an opportunity to play Bytel, which I would have supported. I'm not saying he's not up to it. I just suspect the coaching panel see a similarity with others and they don't see value in playing him.
Personally, I'd like to see him get an opportunity, say 6 o7 consecutive games as a permanent mid to see if he can flourish. Getting injured in round one was really unfortunate for him.
I attribute this to the blind spot that RTB seemingly still has for the value of his roles over raw talent. It was something that was a major feature of v1.0 (e.g. preference for an out form players like McQualter/Eddy/Dempster [also version 1.0] opposed to guys like Armo or Steven that weren’t defensive forwards but were better players) that I hoped had evolved.
I suspect that Bytel can’t get a game because he categorised as an extraction midfielder type and is competing with Steele, Crouch, Ross and surprisingly Paton who has played into that role.
One might go ok… we’re struggling with clearances and frankly I’m not seeing a lot of good from say Byrnes… and Gresh is out of sorts but in the RTB model IMO… regardless of their output, they can only be replaced by other players that do the same role.
Hence for example… Peris is an emergency which pbly is a warning to Higgins (down last week) or Gresh who is out of sorts or inconsistent.
This structure and roles extremity is a feature of RTB game plans I’ve never enjoyed. It ends up with players that never get opportunity despite good VFL form and sees others get countless goes despite poor form because they’re replacements aren’t doing well.
I'm forming the opinion Jack Bytel has been given a program to try to overcome the frequent injuries he has had and to develop him as the next up mid when one of the current regulars gets injured. I noticed he was organising stoppages in the VFL, acting captain like, trying hard. Don't buy the attitude thing or that he has been written off (see selection in early rounds). I see a cunning plan. Crouch might like to keep an eye out in the one on one contact drills if Jack sidles up.
Yorkeys wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 1:34pm
I'm forming the opinion Jack Bytel has been given a program to try to overcome the frequent injuries he has had and to develop him as the next up mid when one of the current regulars gets injured. I noticed he was organising stoppages in the VFL, acting captain like, trying hard. Don't buy the attitude thing or that he has been written off (see selection in early rounds). I see a cunning plan. Crouch might like to keep an eye out in the one on one contact drills if Jack sidles up.
With Gresh and Butler in the 22 and Higgins unlikely to be dropped from the 22… seems unlikely Peris plays
Campbell has been in the bench for ages so hard to see what they would give him a go now or change up the structure
Cordy is puzzling as well… with Howard, Wilkie and Battle + King, Caminati all in the 22, hard to see a pace for him
So that essentially brings in Ross for Paton which is where we started.
Disappointed to see Byrnes in the team after that dismal effort. Not even sweating on the bench.
Uninspired yet again
Yep...Caminiti stays in. Billings not rewarded again. We scream out for quality ball use and one of our best is wearing the wrong colours!
This weekend would be the perfect opportunity to try something and use this as the launching pad for the last part of season towards finals.
Oh well...Papering the cracks!
100% agree
I am disappointed that we are not trying a couple of changes
" A few will never give up on you. When you go back out on the field, those are the people I want in your minds. Those are the people I want in your hearts."
I would say that Crouch is taking Bytel's spot, so if Crouch goes down, then Bytel would come in. None of our mids, captain included, are playing with anywhere near the quality required for finals footy.
Diligent, hardworking, unassuming, quick hands, a leader are some of the words that describe Bytel I have followed him since he arrived at the Saints and like many others I’m baffled why he hasn’t been given a go in the AFL side, except for the fact that he plays a similar role to Steele, Crouch and Ross and doesn’t have the versatility we know RTB likes.
My guess is Bytel misses out because he doesn’t cover the ground as well as others on the list and would struggle to log the klms at pace in a match that Ross seems to require.
No clue really, but that is my best guess given his form at the lower level is not rewarded at senior selection.
FWIW I don’t think Bytel is of the standard required an AFL regular, too good for VFL, great depth. Similar to Constable & Dunstan who are too good not to be on AFL lists but depth players due mainly to athletic capabilities.
Regardless of that opinion, Bytel has earned an opportunity at senior level, similar to Byrnes last year who was killing it at VFL level but could not get selected.
The standard of VFL this season seems to have dropped, again only my opinion.
Bytel, Byrnes, Patton all similar in they they could dominate VFL but are depth at AFL level.
It’s time for Billings to be promoted, at least as sub.
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
66Iwasthere wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 3:33pm
Diligent, hardworking, unassuming, quick hands, a leader are some of the words that describe Bytel I have followed him since he arrived at the Saints and like many others I’m baffled why he hasn’t been given a go in the AFL side, except for the fact that he plays a similar role to Steele, Crouch and Ross and doesn’t have the versatility we know RTB likes.
A real injustice...a travesty..if Bytel is forced to look elsewhere for a game.
shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 12:38pm
Has anyone been down to training a lot this year?
Can anyone see Jack Bytel goes in training drills?
In the absence of any other evidence, and Bytel’s continuing absence from the team sheet, I am going with the ‘attitude’ thing.
I suspect Bytel is not meeting some of the parameters that have been planned and discussed with him.
There is that comment by an official pre-season that he hoped Bytel would bring some of the vigor he showed in practice games, to training.
Something different at training today, most of the Saints players who play at Sandy stayed in the gym when training started, including during a couple of match sims. About two thirds of the way through today's training session the Sandy
Saints came out onto the ground and did a warm up with the fitness guys then they joined in the last match sim, Bytel was part of the Sandy Saints. I hadn't seen that segregation before.
Interesting to see Peris was part of the main training group today.
Keeler trained on his own, his training looked to be fitness based.
I would say Peris will be in the squad that travels over to WA, along with Cordy.
They did the full training session today with the rest of Ross' explorers.
I think Harvs made an error today when he told the players during match sim, " it's OK, it doesn't have to be perfect, keep at it" . I think the players display that most weeks, especially lately.
nostalgicsaint wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 7:06pm
@Scalloped Patotoes
Is your contention that Lenny Hayes backed Bytel and therefore he was picked round 1.
But now it is all RTB fault he isn't getting a game?
My point. Ross is one opinion when it comes to selection.
@ old fart (if you can't address me by my nic, why should I...?)
Senior coach vs assistant coach. I think we all know who has deciding voice...and so it should be. Lenny can make suggestions but ultimately Ross is responsible for most decisions.
Was it Lenny Hayes who decided Rath should go, Gags should go? Or ....Geoff Walsh should go, our strength and conditioning guy should go? ...need I continue?
Sorry... shouldn't have mentioned G Walsh. That's just pure speculation on my part. Maybe Walsh wanted Rath to stay or Gags to stay...Maybe Walsh wasn't a huge fan of SOS and Lyon was....or maybe it was genuinely a personal or family reason and it was all a coincidence.
nostalgicsaint wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 7:06pm
@Scalloped Patotoes
Is your contention that Lenny Hayes backed Bytel and therefore he was picked round 1.
But now it is all RTB fault he isn't getting a game?
My point. Ross is one opinion when it comes to selection.
@ old fart (if you can't address me by my nic, why should I...?)
Senior coach vs assistant coach. I think we all know who has deciding voice...and so it should be. Lenny can make suggestions but ultimately Ross is responsible for most decisions.
Was it Lenny Hayes who decided Rath should go, Gags should go? Or ....Geoff Walsh should go, our strength and conditioning guy should go? ...need I continue?
Sorry... shouldn't have mentioned G Walsh. That's just pure speculation on my part. Maybe Walsh wanted Rath to stay or Gags to stay...Maybe Walsh wasn't a huge fan of SOS and Lyon was....or maybe it was genuinely a personal or family reason and it was all a coincidence.
Your whole posts are full of supposition and “maybes”
“Maybe Ross has favourites”
“Maybe he doesn’t like Bytel..”
Now it’s..
“Maybe Walsh doesn’t like SOS…”
**** n blah blah blah
Maybe …Bytel isn’t better than Crouch right now and when he does plays AFL he gets 17 possessions….
Maybe you you need to pull your head out ..and stop making up rubbish cause you really just want to bash the coach???
Get over it ffs you’re like a broken record!
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Sat 01 Jul 2023 12:06am
Be great to see Jack Peris get his opportunity as sub, I reckon he might surprise a few with his speed.
Actually think he will - Lyons mentioned him before and on Perth deck reckon he’d be handy
Be interesting to see
nostalgicsaint wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 7:06pm
@Scalloped Patotoes
Is your contention that Lenny Hayes backed Bytel and therefore he was picked round 1.
But now it is all RTB fault he isn't getting a game?
My point. Ross is one opinion when it comes to selection.
@ old fart (if you can't address me by my nic, why should I...?)
Senior coach vs assistant coach. I think we all know who has deciding voice...and so it should be. Lenny can make suggestions but ultimately Ross is responsible for most decisions.
Was it Lenny Hayes who decided Rath should go, Gags should go? Or ....Geoff Walsh should go, our strength and conditioning guy should go? ...need I continue?
Sorry... shouldn't have mentioned G Walsh. That's just pure speculation on my part. Maybe Walsh wanted Rath to stay or Gags to stay...Maybe Walsh wasn't a huge fan of SOS and Lyon was....or maybe it was genuinely a personal or family reason and it was all a coincidence.
So you concede that Ross was ultimately the one who gave Bytel a chance in round 1.
Then subsequently multiple times as a sub.
I'm a Bytel fan too but I struggle to see the issue here....
Disclaimer: posts are my views and shouldn't be taken as fact, even if I am in fact right.
Don't tell us it's a year of exploration and then revert back to conservative safe team selections once we're a chance to make finals
We need to go backwards as a club and the heirarchy admitted this preseason. We don't want to be just making up the numbers or scraping in at the bottom of the top 8.
Exploring the list means giving players like Jack Bytel an extended opportunity to perform at senior level.
Anyhow...f*** it. I give up. Let's just celebrate every possession from Brad Crouch instead
bobmurray wrote: ↑Fri 30 Jun 2023 4:43pm
Something different at training today, most of the Saints players who play at Sandy stayed in the gym when training started, including during a couple of match sims. About two thirds of the way through today's training session the Sandy
Saints came out onto the ground and did a warm up with the fitness guys then they joined in the last match sim, Bytel was part of the Sandy Saints. I hadn't seen that segregation before.
Interesting to see Peris was part of the main training group today.
Keeler trained on his own, his training looked to be fitness based.
Thanks for the training report, always good to hear how the boys are doing.
I suspect the difference is that Sandy plays today (Saturday) and the Saints team plays Sunday arvo.
