The mongrel punt on the saints King sized problem

[saynta]

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2 ... solutions/

"In an off-season that could be described as “unsettling” for the St Kilda Football Club, the news of Max King injuring his shoulder and the likelihood he would be missing for the first half of the 2023 AFL season did not really come as a surprise to many Saints fans.

Strangely, it was almost as though they expected the bad news. In many ways, they’ve been conditioned that way.

The return of Ross Lyon to the club was met with a mixed reaction, particularly given the circumstances surrounding the removal of Brett Ratten from the position of head coach. However, whilst there will be some ready to throw the towel in on the new season upon hearing the King news, and some in the media have fed that feeling of dread by writing the Saints off before a ball has been bounced, there could be some reasons to keep an eye on how the club fill their King-sized hole in the forward line.

Believe it or not, St Kilda, for the first time in a while, is in an advantageous position when it comes to forward stocks. Whilst they won’t replace King’s presence, they could hold the fort for long enough for him to return and have an impact.

After playing in attack for the final five games of the 2021 season (and averaging two goals in the process), team balance saw Cooper Sharman move into defence to aid Dougal Howard and Cal Wilkie in 2022. Playing ten games, Sharman did what was expected of a young player – he had moments. Those moments largely consisted of strong intercept grabs across half-back as he filled the hole and used his athleticism to launch. However, there were plenty of St Kilda supporters wondering why he was not persisted with as a forward.

Team balance remains the answer to that issue, as the Saints, with Nick Coffield out for the season, lacked height and reliability in defence. Both Sharman and Josh Battle were redeployed to bolster a defence that was clunky, at best. This off-season, the Saints quietly recruited Zaine Cordy to add some grunt in defence. Whilst the move, itself, is not earth-shattering, what it means for the structure of the team is important. It could allow the move of Sharman, or Battle, back into attack.

A move like this would have the Saints’ forward line look as follows.

Tim Membrey as the main target, Dan Butler and Jack Higgins doing what they do best, Jack Hayes returning to provide a contest and taking on backup ruck duties, and either of Josh Battle or Sharman as the third marking option. With King due to return around the bye (at the moment), and taking back the position as the number one marking option, there remains one spot available.

And that is where we see whether Ross the Boss is really looking at this incarnation of the St Kilda team through a different lens, or the same old set of eyes that often neglected to play talented young stars in the making.

When the Saints grabbed Mattaes Phillipou with pick ten in the 2022 AFL Draft, they were elated, and for good reason. It has been a while since St Kilda had someone with a genuine presence in their team. As reliable as Tim Membrey is, as dependable as Jack Steele is, and as ruthlessly efficient as Callum Wilkie is, Phillipou brings something that none of them have – personality.

Not lacking for confidence, Phillipou speaks like a young man who knows he belongs already. Hell, prior to the draft, he likened himself to a mix of Nat Fyfe and Marcus Bontempelli. That is confidence!

When asked whether the kid should tone down the overconfidence a bit, AFL Draft guru, Cal Twomey responded by stating “That’s not a front, that’s his natural confidence and self-belief in himself to be really, really good. He wants to be great, he doesn’t want to be a player, he wants to be a really good player and a really good player quickly”

With a father that played at the highest level only briefly, Phillipou evidently understands what a privilege has been afforded him. If he is confident, he is confident because he knows what it takes, and knows he is capable.

Most comfortable as a mid/forward, Phillipou’s presence across half-forward and up into the middle of the ground could provide a dangerous link for the Saints on the rebound and could be the first step in establishing himself as a legitimate AFL force.

And then… it could not.

So much of how this unit functions in 2023, with or without King, will revolve around the expectations of the new/old coach. How adventurous will Lyon be with his new/old team? When does he expect the window to edge open? Will he attempt to force it open a bit sooner?

Looking at the Saints’ list, at the time of writing, they have just one player north of 30 years of age. This group is in a situation where the majority of them have been together for a few years. They have tasted minimal success in 2020, but the last two seasons have seen them fall flat. Their inability to capitalise on a great start in 2022 was extremely disappointing.

But the nucleus is there.

The team has grunt workers (Steele, Crouch), has those who can hit the scoreboard (Membrey, Higgins, Butler, Gresham… and King), and are now looking a little more settled in defence. Yes, the loss of King to a shoulder injury is the blow the club did not need, but it I far from the death knell for the season. Foolish people make foolish statements.

The Saints may surprise a few in 2023. Most will discount them given the absence of their number one target, but crisis often breeds opportunity*. With hungry young blokes like Sharman and Phillipou looking to make a name for themselves, and with Marcus Windhager establishing himself as an excellent stopper in 2022, this team, under the right circumstances, is far from a spent force. As a matter of fact, this might just be the start of something big.

How adventurous is an older and wiser Ross the Boss?

We find out in around 100 days."

 

[shanegrambeau]

Backline, at best 'clunky'?? We thought our back six was pretty solid, didn't we! And in the spirit of this article, we acknowledge it was so bad that Battle and later Sharman had to be brought in to shore it up, even with HIghmore running around in the reserves. How it can change quickly!

Most of us thought Cooper was put back in defence not to 'fill a hole', but more to give Cooper some experience with defenders and help him get game time without the expectation of kicking goals every week. That was my hunch anyway. Our defence is that bad? With Howard, Wilkie and Sincs, and potentially Coff, Paton and HIghmore and of course Battle?

Well, we know Coff fell away in '21 and what do you think of the way Paton traveled in '22? Decent, but the game moves on and he'll have to keep going. I am sure he can.

Something about Membrey as a stay-at-home forward irks me. A Jason Heatley? Just imagine what defence coaches of opposition teams do when they take a look at this.

Butler/Gresh Membrey Sharman
Higgins Hayes Billings

Does Membrey get the gorilla like May? Or a Lever? Whatever it is, I fancy that oppo defences would not be threatened by the bigs.

[Saintmike65]

This is a well written article for a change.
The boss hopefully will rotate his forwards as well as his mids.
Hayes will be very important for structure, Membrey, Sharman, Wood, Phillipou, Owens are important as hybrid talls..Butler, Higgins and Gresham as small forwards, with Gresh & Higgins getting some minutes in the midfield.
Sinclair and Jones mainly down back, also getting midfield minutes.
Windhager and Steele resting forward, Owens & Phillipou also getting minutes in the midfield.
We have options, hopefully the boss will milk them for all their worth!
These days midfield rotations are critical.

[saynta]

This is a well written article for a change.
The boss hopefully will rotate his forwards as well as his mids.
Hayes will be very important for structure, Membrey, Sharman, Wood, Phillipou, Owens are important as hybrid talls..Butler, Higgins and Gresham as small forwards, with Gresh & Higgins getting some minutes in the midfield.
Sinclair and Jones mainly down back, also getting midfield minutes.
Windhager and Steele resting forward, Owens & Phillipou also getting minutes in the midfield.
We have options, hopefully the boss will milk them for all their worth!
These days midfield rotations are critical.

Re: Owens. Looks to have grown in the off season, Can anyone confirm or refute that?

[Impatient Sainter]

This is a well written article for a change.
The boss hopefully will rotate his forwards as well as his mids.
Hayes will be very important for structure, Membrey, Sharman, Wood, Phillipou, Owens are important as hybrid talls..Butler, Higgins and Gresham as small forwards, with Gresh & Higgins getting some minutes in the midfield.
Sinclair and Jones mainly down back, also getting midfield minutes.
Windhager and Steele resting forward, Owens & Phillipou also getting minutes in the midfield.
We have options, hopefully the boss will milk them for all their worth!
These days midfield rotations are critical.

Totally agree there is nothing defenders hate more with having to constantly rotate opponents. Obviously in the current game they roll off their opponents, but if we can keep each defender accountable we will be a much better team. Clubs that were allowed to play a team defence and just fill holes eg Geelong killed us this season and Ratten had no answers. The answer is to not have our forwards compress so high, maintain their shape and stay on the move inside the forward half of the ground.

Hopefully we get Hayes back and ready before the season commences. Hayes, Sharman, Membrey, Wood, Owens will make a pretty decent forward line if they work for each other.

[Saints58]

I do think we need either a resting ruck Like Row or Campbell or Van Es I know he is a defender but the kid can run and really jump is a great mark.
As a third option and getting the 3 defender he might really be a bit of a x factor and at 197cm 94kg is big and heavy enough to make a impact.
Other wise we play Heath as a forward he has been playing there for Sandy, and he can ruck when Row is resting he is a big unit.

[Josh Battle]

Tim Membrey has been the Saints leading goal kicker in 2016, 2017 and 2019. He’s a role model when it comes to training

He is a beast of an athlete. He had to work hard to earn a spot to play his first game of AFL at Sydney

Sydney already had Tippett, Goodes and Sam Ried and then in Tim’s second year Buddy arrived

If Membrey becomes our number 1 go to target in 2023 he could win the Coleman

Not only is a fantastic contested mark 1-1 against similar sized oppo but he will run them off their feet with his repeat leads

I’d have Joshy Battle in defence (the real one that plays for the Saints ). He’s found his niche imo and it’d be counter productive to try him as a leading forward again. That doesn’t mean he can’t wander forward every now and then and kick a snag

[Yorkeys]

I think our mids are going to kick more goals with the new regime, and about time.
Wood and Owens were looking dangerous as forwards towards the end of 22 season, so we will have avenues.
Opposition coaches will have to shelve their standard defensive plans for us for a while, i.e. stop Max, and earn their money.

[Banger9798]

Members, Sharman and Hayes will provide good targets and all good kicks for goal.
Billings, Gresham, Butler, Higgins, Owens and Phillipou rotating through, and we have plenty of options to still be dangerous.
Look at Collingwood this year, Mihocek and Elliot up there, and a bunch of role players. But really good strategy and connection with midfield.
That's what we need.

[WellardSaint]

Tim Membrey has been the Saints leading goal kicker in 2016, 2017 and 2019. He’s a role model when it comes to training

He is a beast of an athlete. He had to work hard to earn a spot to play his first game of AFL at Sydney

Sydney already had Tippett, Goodes and Sam Ried and then in Tim’s second year Buddy arrived

If Membrey becomes our number 1 go to target in 2023 he could win the Coleman

Not only is a fantastic contested mark 1-1 against similar sized oppo but he will run them off their feet with his repeat leads

I’d have Joshy Battle in defence (the real one that plays for the Saints ). He’s found his niche imo and it’d be counter productive to try him as a leading forward again. That doesn’t mean he can’t wander forward every now and then and kick a snag

Skunk for the Coleman
He will be lucky to be in the top 6, IMHO.
Jeremy Cameron, Charlie Curnow, Tom Hawkins, Tom Lynch, Ben King, the Lions player (name escapes me)

[Scollop]

It makes sense that Max King would kick more goals when he was the guy getting the most opportunities.

I wonder if Tim would kick more and whether it's better for the team if he stays closer to goal?

I think I heard on Fox Footy that Max was up there as the highest ranked player in terms of being a target inside 50 versus any other key position forward in the league

The stats below are for 2022. Unfortunately the stat missing is 'how many times' Saints players try and target Max inside 50 versus targeting Tim

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

[shanegrambeau]

I don't know the circumstances surrounding Paddy retiring.

people here seem to think nothing of it.

I think it is devastating.

Especially with King going dow.

he only had a year left perhaps two, but he certainly repeatedly stated that he wanted to go on well into the season.

I just wonder if his mental demoins were not playing their part and whether we could have done anything.

Having him would have been an enormous boost for stability under the new coach.

Well alas..(the onky reason I repeat it is because we can't go nuts trying to explain things when it's belly-up if we don't realize our losses as well as our gains)

Anyway, I agree with Scollop

And I wanna add..it doesn't matter if people find their niche. Their best position might have NOTHING to do with the best result game day for St Kilda.

I include Dougal Howard - who is a very capable forward but whinges and whines when asked to go forward, and Josh Battle, whom posters seem to think the United Nations must determine his favorite position.