Chicken or the egg?

[skeptic]

Ratten signs a two year extension.

Off-season, club does a “football department review”
It is alleged around the time that Essendon send out feelers to RL, Blake contacts him and tells him to hold tight
Major recommendation of the review is to sack Ratten and it is done
RL meets with the club days later with overwhelming noise that the position is his

So help me out here…
RL and others have indicated that he and the board/whoever didn’t discuss a coaching gig until after Ratten was sacked.

It smells very fishy to me. There’s form here with Mark Harvey being usurped to bring Lyon in.

Now as far as whether or not this is a good thing for the club… I don’t want to have that discussion here. RL comes highly credentialed, with a bunch of enduring strengths but there are perceptions regarding his weaknesses around development that are valid (at least in terms of these areas not bring strengths) and whether he will do the same old game plan or mix it up… regardless of where you land, I think we can all agree that it will be interesting to see where he lands and how he goes about it.

The narrative of a mediocre off-season has already shifted and we’re the talk of the town currently

Here’s the obvious question…

Who believes RL was sought out pre-sacking… and for an extra 10pts on the conspiracy scale, does anyone believe that the football department review was orchestrated in the first place specifically to replace Ratten with Lyon?

Hearsay evidence
Ratten signed for 2 years - sacked 100 days later
Review launched that really hasn’t revealed anything or changed anything else
Walsh makes comments about irrelevance
Hayes comes home. Goddard makes comments about how the super culture is gone (now tipped to be an assistant).
RL’s imminent signing appears to have been amongst the smoothest transitions in history.

So… is that the case, or was Ratten let go after the negative findings of the review with a quick appraisal that Lyon was the best candidate available and we got lucky that he was both available and willing?

No gripe… just interested.

[WellardSaint]

I wonder whether board members, very influential coterie supporters, and others, became disheartened after the bye.
Especially the rubbish Bombers' game.
Wondering what the hell happened after the win against the Cats.

The way things have panned out, it looks a bit too convenient for all the pieces to have just fallen into place.
Things always happen behind the scenes, in every industry, every country, everywhere, and the public only sees the results that we are allowed to see.
'Movers and shakers' -that phrase is relevant here.
Why would Lenny return? Doesn't he have a farm somewhere in rural NSW? What's got him over the line?

Goddard recently said 'am I a Saint or a Bomber? I'd say Bomber...'
Yet now he's champing at the bit.
He had said our culture was found wanting.
Was there a dinner for the 2009/2010 side where things were discussed?

And Ratts was given 7 hours to plead his case.
Yet the club says (hand on heart) that Ratts wasn't given enough support or the right type of support.
Unclear. McGlynn and Lade unsuitable? Fitness coaches made mistakes? Travel arrangements for interstate games could've been better, for recovery?
Why not give him better support (Hayes comes in, new Fwd coach?) and give him 2023 to improve.
They gave Richo better support after apologising that he had subpar support. Whatever that was.

So Ratts gets 7 hrs and yet he's out.
Lyon was already in the gun well before the review ended

[Munga]

Who believes RL was sought out pre-sacking

does anyone believe that the football department review was orchestrated in the first place specifically to replace Ratten with Lyon?

Does it matter? You get the best man for the job and keep the media out of it. Sounds like a job well done to me. My answer would be probably yes. They had someone better in mind, and Lyon is the only one in the "race".

On the second question. I don't think so. Apparently Bassat conducts regular reviews in his business, I would assume this isn't any different.

[Devilhead]

My thoughts are that Ratten knew when he signed the 2 year contract that he could be let go if we didn't make finals ... likely written in his contract

We hedges our bets and once we missed finals we may have likely approached Lyon who said yes to the gig and then we orchestrated the review to make it look more amenable to sack Ratten ... and we probably needed one anyway

As we know Ratten has not said anything which says to me he had no gripes and knew what he was in for cause he signed off on it in his new contract

Pretty sure our board ain't stupid and had planned for all contingencies ..... its just that the Media are not that smart so they smash us cause that is their standard go to

[Waltzing St Kilda]

My suspicion.

Admin wondered what would happen if 2023 season went pear-shaped. Sounded out RL if he'd be interetsed in coaching if that panned out.

RL said of course he would.

Admin happy with that but then started wondering what they were waiting for.

After all, they were asking the question in the first place. And North and Brisbane might be looking for new coaches soon. Gold Coast if they start badly next year.

RL already three years out of the system; no enthusiasm for 2023 around St Kilda; fans on club forums saying they'd never felt less engaged.

Decided to bite the bullet.

[wally]

One question I have surrounds Lade, he interviewed for the Essendon job which is ok, then when misses out goes to Footscray as an assistant.
Did he think the review would bring changes in coaching dept. and assumed Ratten was safe due to recently signing a new contract so he jumped thinking he would get a shove?

[takeaway]

May 2021

As is well known, there has always been those within and outside the club who have wanted to get RL back, including ex players of course. What was just a bit of a pipe dream gained a bit of momentum after the Bulldogs smashed us in May 2021 by 100+ points, a few weeks after Tigers smashed us. We hardly fired a shot in those games, despite some good wins interspersed. Inconsistent performances, including more insipid performances out of the blue, galvanised the push.

The second half of 2022 was the straw.

[markp]

It's a no-brainer.

Ratten was sacked less than a week ago and Lyon was already measuring up the curtains for his new office on day 4.

The reporting that the Prez is virtually entirely running the process is significant.

There was probably a bottle of Grange or Dom in the backpack.

It may not have been a 100% closed deal when they sacked Ratten, but at least all the foreplay was surely already done.

Agree with the post above re bulldogs and tigers games. (I remember shots of Ratten in the box while we were getting thumped just doing nothing.)

Second half of the season reviewed itself.

[asiu]

his 'solicitor/ manager' is an ex board member
for us ... yes ?

has business ties with current Admin ... yes

has ex players (organically) driving expectations of better ... yes

all the while the Rooster
having already done his thing

allows natural selection it's process


all very bigger than (a coaching selection process)
above board
and technically truthful


i've always wanted to say
'my people will talk to your people'

but then
i'm not Ross

but if i was
i'd say

let the chickens and eggs do what they do
i'm a Rooster

[SaintPav]

Major recommendation of the review is to sack Ratten and it is done

You reckon the recommendation was that blunt? Dunno.

It was supposed to be a review of the entire football operations. I know from personal experience that AB likes detail and likes to get his hands dirty. He’s not your run of the mill corporate bureaucrat. He’s built businesses from the ground up.

But yes, there were definitely rumblings and pressure from outside for change. Rightly so.

Also, Noble was bullshitting when he was interviewed on trade radio about the review.

[CQ SAINT]

his 'solicitor/ manager' is an ex board member
for us ... yes ?

has business ties with current Admin ... yes

has ex players (organically) driving expectations of better ... yes

all the while the Rooster
having already done his thing

allows natural selection it's process


all very bigger than (a coaching selection process)
above board
and technically truthful


i've always wanted to say
'my people will talk to your people'

but then
i'm not Ross

but if i was
i'd say

let the chickens and eggs do what they do
i'm a Rooster

I'm getting clunky just reading this.
Bekerrrk.

[asiu]

clucky !!

if your clunky
well ... lanolin or wd40 might help big fella

[Saintmike65]

Just love a good conspiracy theory!
Reality is the club needed a good shake up and who better than Ross, Lethlean and Walsh to get things moving.
My only concern is, what if Ross ultimately turns down the job..what then?

[SaintPav]

Just love a good conspiracy theory!
Reality is the club needed a good shake up and who better than Ross, Lethlean and Walsh to get things moving.
My only concern is, what if Ross ultimately turns down the job..what then?

Is Lenny looking forward to working with Ross again?

[Sanctorum]

It's unlikely that any of the conspiracy scenarios mentioned here can ever be verified, and as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't bother me if there were feelers put to Ross Lyon to come back to Moorabbin, it is immaterial.

In looking back on the last 6 days and listening again to the press conference on Friday morning, it is crystal clear that the review conducted by Andrew Bassat, distinct from the official review headed by David Noble, indicated to him that Brett Ratten lacked the people management skills and personality characteristics to drive the team to reach the higher levels of the ladder in 2023, irrespective of the quality of the playing list.

My take is that Bassat and Lethlean, probably with support from Geoff Walsh and Jason Blake, came to the conclusion that the team needs some hard love, develop some grit, real mental toughness, become a feared competitor in the competition, all the things that St Kilda lacks and all of the top teams in the AFL possess, and for many years.

This is what led them to conclude that Brett Ratten had to go, and if that meant that they were going to be bashed from pillar to post by the footy media for changing their mind 100 days after Ratts had been given another 2 years, then so be it, and for that I for one applaud them!

I very much doubt that any previous Board would have had the nerve to bite the bullet, and that is the reason our footy team has been languishing in the ranks of the also-rans for the past 12 years.

[CQ SAINT]

clucky !!

if your clunky
well ... lanolin or wd40 might help big fella

Yep. While I'm in the barn I'll just rub up on some sheep for the lanolin. Lol.

[The Fireman]

Skullduggery has always been around. Football ,business etc.
never show your hand and have an ace up your sleeve

I have no doubt the series of events were orchestrated previously

[The Fireman]

clucky !!

if your clunky
well ... lanolin or wd40 might help big fella

Yep. While I'm in the barn I'll just rub up on some sheep for the lanolin. Lol.

Don’t forget the gumboots

[Yorkeys]

Has there been a hatching, really?
Whole thing artificially inseminated, incubated by the review.
If the hatchling proves successful any number will claim paternity.
If we don't make finals whole thing will be a bastard just as quick.
Quickly disowned, but a darn sight harder to explain than Ratts' extension.
Lot of reputations roaming the free range. Will they survive. Fancy putting your rep on Ross not being a con man. Good luck StKFC. Brave decision.

[The Fireman]

At the end of the day we all know that Ross looks after Ross. And can coach

[Rubyjo]

At the end of the day we all know that Ross looks after Ross. And can coach

And so he should look after himself ..huge job coaching the saints .

[The Fireman]

At the end of the day we all know that Ross looks after Ross. And can coach

And so he should look after himself ..huge job coaching the saints .

do you look after Ernie ?

[bobmurray]

One question I have surrounds Lade, he interviewed for the Essendon job which is ok, then when misses out goes to Footscray as an assistant.
Did he think the review would bring changes in coaching dept. and assumed Ratten was safe due to recently signing a new contract so he jumped thinking he would get a shove?

Maybe Lade didn't like Ratts game plan, if there was one, so he bailed ?