We’re Top Four

[Bowey Boy]

Go figure.

[Banger9798]

Ceazy

[Sainter_Dad]

Sydney lost Percents - they were just above us in Percents - need to keep it up as there is now a game clear between 3 and 4

But for those still harping on about it - still have only beaten 1 from the top 8 of last year

[bangaulegend]

Very even competition & a loss like last night might be the straw that prevents us from being top 4 or even a top 8 team. You need to take your opportunity's when you have them or you will fall by the wayside pretty f---ing quick IMO anyway

[Teflon]

Warning : Long read but a very good, balanced article that warns ….don’t get too far ahead of Saints performances just yet…


From the roar...

Cool The Flag Talk, The Saints Aren't Even Guaranteed Finalists Just Yet

By Dem Panopoulos / Expert

Let’s settle down when discussing the Saints.

It has been a really impressive start to the season without question and to express concerns, I must first acknowledge the positives that we’ve seen so far.

Through the first six rounds, they sit fifth with a record of 5-1 and have clearly exceeded expectations.

The Saints have done it at both ends, conceding the third fewest points while scoring the fourth most points and most encouragingly, the over-reliance on Jack Steele hasn’t been there in 2022.

Perhaps the single biggest leap undertaken by St Kilda has been the vast improvement in fitness – arguably the most vital asset to work off in modern footy, combined with defensive commitment.

This has seen some marked improvements from specific individuals that previously have been as maligned as any across the competition.

Take the trio of Brad Crouch, Seb Ross and Dan McKenzie, for example. All three have been prominent midfielders for the Saints in 2022, with McKenzie transforming himself into one of the best two-way running wingmen in the competition.

Among the justifiable criticisms levelled at these players was their application to the defensive side of the game.

If you want to question whether there’s enough belief in this playing group, look no further than the increases in defensive-half pressure acts among these players.

Crouch has gone from averaging 9.2 per game to 11.7, McKenzie has increased his from 6.7 to 8.5 and somewhat surprisingly, Ross has jumped from 6.5 defensive-half pressure acts per game to an excellent 9.8.

This is absolutely significant to keep in mind when analysing St Kilda, as these players are playing central positions and providing comparable defensive support to Steele, who had very little previously.

The case of Ross warrants a little further attention, as he’s deserving of credit from those who have previously treated him as a whipping boy.

Before the season, the 28-year-old may have found himself on the fringes of a fully fit St Kilda team.

He has won best-and-fairest awards previously and been among the league’s most prolific ball-winners, but a long-held criticism of Ross has been his poor ball use and lack of overall impact on games.

Even as recently as last season, the midfielder seemed to be struggling to maintain relevance.

But a quarter of the way through 2022, Ross has been a perfect complementary piece of the midfield.

Ross’ kicking efficiency is 66.7 per cent on 12 kicks a game, a clear career-high in ball use and rated above average across midfielders in the league.

His contested possession rate has pushed back up among his career-best, he’s averaging more intercept possessions than ever before, he’s ranked 16th in the entire league for score involvements and as mentioned, his defensive pressure is better than ever.

Backing in Ross has worked out swimmingly, as has the move of Jack Sinclair back into the midfield.

Sinclair is ranked in the league’s top 20 for effective disposals and metres gained, and he’s averaging career-highs in disposals, clearances, ground-ball gets and tackles.

Perhaps the Saints missed the craft and skill of Jade Gresham more than the general AFL fan realised. He has returned to be one of the AFL’s best players for goal assists, inside 50s and centre clearances, he is averaging 24 disposals, six inside 50s, four clearances, and he has kicked nine goals in six games.

Of course, I could endlessly list the positive output of many players, although Josh Battle, Max King and Jack Higgins are deserving of specific individual mentions.

Yet for all the positives, and there are plenty, to suggest the Saints have graduated to even remote premiership contention is to overreact on what has been presented to us.

For those who haven’t kept tabs, the Saints lost to Collingwood in the first round and have subsequently beaten Fremantle, Richmond, Hawthorn, Gold Coast and GWS.

While the only true contender they’ve played so far was an away win against the wildly inefficient Dockers, this isn’t an exercise in criticising a softer draw – in fact, we should commend a finals aspirant for putting in the work against rivals.

Rather, it’s the tactical and stylistic approach that are of concern.

The Saints have been victorious by being able to run out games and grind their way to the very end.

There’s certainly an admirable quality about a group who can be tougher for longer and simply work their way to wins, but that should be a trait rather than an identity.

Sure, in pockets, the Saints have been devastating. They ran rampant in the final quarter of their win against the Tigers after grinding the opposition into the ground, while a second-quarter blitz against the Hawks set up the huge victory when Hawthorn tried to take blind risks later in the game and turned the ball over.

Instead, Round 6’s win against GWS was the epitome of a fighting victory and St Kilda’s norm, having lost Jack Hayes and Rowan Marshall. They preyed on a team devoid of confidence and ran right over them.

Unfortunately, genuinely good teams aren’t that easy to grind down with patient ball use and in fact, slower ball movement is a huge red flag in 2022.

Collingwood beat St Kilda with quick ball movement and efficient transition. They didn’t stay still if they could help it and would go direct as often as possible.

That’s exactly the way the likes of Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney play, while a fit Fremantle and Geelong do it plenty.

These teams wait for the opposition to slow down their ball use and chip the ball around. With each disposal that purely aims to retain possession, they move higher up the ground and squeeze teams until they turn the ball over closer to goal.

It’s bad news for the Saints, who are in the league’s top four for disposals-per-inside 50, averaging 7.5. For reference, Gold Coast average 5.66 disposals per inside 50, Brisbane average 6.44 and the Swans are around 6.42.

St Kilda’s numbers are comparable with Carlton in this area, and the Blues were annihilated by Fremantle by over-possessing and being caught out by forward pressure and direct disposals.

The sustainability of relying on contested marking inside 50 to score is also a legitimate concern.

King is the league’s best inside-50 target and has been quite incredible so far, kicking 17.17 with 4.7 marks inside 50 and 2.8 contested marks per game.

If King was able to keep up this pace across the whole season though, he’d be creating AFL records for key forwards by considerable margins.

Jack Higgins, too, is averaging inordinate numbers inside 50 that have proven to be outliers in the competition previously, rather than an accepted norm.

Right now the numbers are impressive, but to think this could be sustainable is surely wishful thinking.

A strength of the Saints in 2021 was their average of 11.1 tackles inside 50, which has dropped to 9.5 this season. They’ve improved from 12th to sixth in clearances, but a lot of lateral ball movement almost neutralises this advantage.

Clearly, work has been done to solidify the group defensively – the Saints concede the second fewest marks inside 50, yet it’s mainly due to the midfield group pushing back and occupying defensive space. Callum Wilkie and Dougal Howard have actually been average in one-on-one contests.

As a result of the increased ground ball out back and the desire to retain possession, no team attracts more pressure, with St Kilda’s opponents averaging 14.2 tackles inside 50.

Unfortunately for the Saints, the fixture isn’t particularly kind to them.

Stats Insider has the club facing the most difficult fixture by far, featuring two games against Brisbane, Geelong and Sydney while needing to face Melbourne, Fremantle and Carlton and having sold what should’ve been a straightforward home game against Port Adelaide.

Winning five of their first six games provides the Saints with some luxuries, such as being able to afford a slip-up on occasion, but with this hard a fixture against teams preying on slow ball movement, Brett Ratten simply must make some tactical adjustments – and quickly – as his team cannot grind out wins against this quality opposition.

A potential ten-goal loss against Melbourne looms without change and would be a devastating wake-up call.

The Saints have had a wonderful start to 2022 and have exceeded the expectations of most.

They must be careful in navigating a difficult few months ahead if they want don’t want to slip to the fringes of the finals.

We should celebrate what the St Kilda Football Club have achieved in the opening stanza of 2022, but tempering expectations is vital to properly judge the group going forward.

[chook23]

Even though we went up a spot on ladder

the loss last night will catch up with us

Our draw gets harder from here

and the last 3 rounds especially

those 4 points from last night were so important to get

still pissed off today

[samuraisaint]

Even though we went up a spot on ladder

the loss last night will catch up with us

Our draw gets harder from here

and the last 3 rounds especially

those 4 points from last night were so important to get

still pissed off today

Geelong and the Swans don't look to be as good as they were last season, and we seem to be better, so the last three rounds are winnable.
We will also have Jones, Hannebery, Billings, Clark and Marshall then, who we didn't have last night (and four of them havent played a game yet in 2022).

[chook23]

Even though we went up a spot on ladder

the loss last night will catch up with us

Our draw gets harder from here

and the last 3 rounds especially

those 4 points from last night were so important to get

still pissed off today

Geelong and the Swans don't look to be as good as they were last season, and we seem to be better, so the last three rounds are winnable.
We will also have Jones, Hannebery, Billings, Clark and Marshall then, who we didn't have last night (and four of them havent played a game yet in 2022).

What are the lotto numbers...

Injuries??

[bangaulegend]

Even though we went up a spot on ladder

the loss last night will catch up with us

Our draw gets harder from here

and the last 3 rounds especially

those 4 points from last night were so important to get

still pissed off today

Geelong and the Swans don't look to be as good as they were last season, and we seem to be better, so the last three rounds are winnable.
We will also have Jones, Hannebery, Billings, Clark and Marshall then, who we didn't have last night (and four of them havent played a game yet in 2022).

What makes you think that Hannebery will be available

[SunnyErnie]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

[bangaulegend]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

[SunnyErnie]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

He is the calm head we are desperately missing

[bangaulegend]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

He is the calm head we are desperately missing

That's if he gets on the park & that in it's self is a big if . He has been ticking all the boxes for almost 4 years & has played a handful of decent games. Never been bog ,never kicked more than 2 goals in a game & has only played a couple of games in almost 2 years . If you're hanging your hat on 30+ year old has been we are in more trouble than I thought

[SunnyErnie]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

He is the calm head we are desperately missing

That's if he gets on the park & that in it's self is a big if . He has been ticking all the boxes for almost 4 years & has played a handful of decent games. Never been bog ,never kicked more than 2 goals in a game & has only played a couple of games in almost 2 years . If you're hanging your hat on 30+ year old has been we are in more trouble than I thought

Hopefully he gets his body right and proof will be in the pudding

[bangaulegend]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

He is the calm head we are desperately missing

That's if he gets on the park & that in it's self is a big if . He has been ticking all the boxes for almost 4 years & has played a handful of decent games. Never been bog ,never kicked more than 2 goals in a game & has only played a couple of games in almost 2 years . If you're hanging your hat on 30+ year old has been we are in more trouble than I thought

Hopefully he gets his body right and proof will be in the pudding

Hopefully that is the key word . Call me a sceptic but I will believe when I see it.

[kosifantutti]

If we keep playing like we did on Saturday night, we'll be on top in no time.

[GSG]

Go figure.

Not for long!

[repta]

will most likely drop to 5 - 4 in the next few weeks.
The game in Cairns will have significant impact on the StKilda bodies.
Successive travel then to come up against the best two team in the league is not ideal. The Cats will smell blood and will come after them hard.

Easy game at home against Port would have been ideal.
Not to be, our bank balance is healthier. Out season on the brink

[remboy]

will most likely drop to 5 - 4 in the next few weeks.

Following which we play Adelaide and North, then we'll be 7-4 and back where we are now.

[The_Dud]

Hanners is ticking all the boxes in his rehab. He will be ready to go after the bye. When he starts playing we will not lose a game

Don't get me wrong Ernie everyone is entitled to their opinion but what makes you think along those lines

He is the calm head we are desperately missing

That's if he gets on the park & that in it's self is a big if . He has been ticking all the boxes for almost 4 years & has played a handful of decent games. Never been bog ,never kicked more than 2 goals in a game & has only played a couple of games in almost 2 years . If you're hanging your hat on 30+ year old has been we are in more trouble than I thought

Hopefully he gets his body right and proof will be in the pudding

Hopefully that is the key word . Call me a sceptic but I will believe when I see it.

Hannebry isn't the messiah.

He is a former A-grade player who hasn't been that for about 4-5 years.

At this point if he did (which he won't) get back on the park regularly he'll just be basically another Ross clone.

[meher baba]

will most likely drop to 5 - 4 in the next few weeks.
The game in Cairns will have significant impact on the StKilda bodies.
Successive travel then to come up against the best two team in the league is not ideal. The Cats will smell blood and will come after them hard.

Of course this scenario is possible, but I think it's unduly pessimistic. Our club and players have a pretty good idea what sort of training regimen and other support will help them to come back from a physical challenge like the game against Port.

I think that, at this stage of our development, the Demons would always have posed a very high hurdle for us, even if we were backing up from a home game against the Roos or West Coast. Our only realistic hope is if they are having an off day, which can happen to any team.

But we will surely have a pretty good chance of defeating the Cats: I think our lineup matches up quite favourably to theirs. They are looking quite vulnerable at the moment and I don't see them as being especially likely to make the top 4. And, thank god, we are playing them at Marvel and not on their undersized home ground, and this will put a bit more pressure on their ageing bodies.

[Laurie]

Wasnt Hannas ticking all the boxes pre season over the last 4 years especially this year.
Just put a line through his name please.
The sooner he is of our list the better
BOOM BOOM

[shanegrambeau]

will most likely drop to 5 - 4 in the next few weeks.
The game in Cairns will have significant impact on the StKilda bodies.
….

…we will surely have a pretty good chance of defeating the Cats: ….thank god, we are playing them at Marvel and not on their undersized home ground…

We have beaten Geelong at Marvel once..since 2009!!

[Beno88]

We'll beat Melbourne this weekend.

[saintsRrising]

Warning : Long read but a very good, balanced article that warns ….don’t get too far ahead of Saints performances just yet…

Good read. Thank you for sharing.


Our upcoming Cats game should provide a good measure of where are at, and where we may end up this season. Being Top 4 after 22 rounds will be difficult, but not impossible.
Dees are presently clear of other teams.

Then I have the Lions as there team is just so well balanced.

We are currently in the band with Freo, Swans, Blues and Cats. We need wins against a majority of these teams in our remaining games to make Top 4. Lose the majority of those games and we possibly can still make the 8, but Top 4 will be beyond us.




We always knew that the early part of the year was our easiest fixture wise. The remainder of our season is on average more difficult than the average to date.
On the upside while we started the season very fit, we also started if with more than our share of injured players.



Pre-season I was more bullish about us in 2023 than in 2022. Though 2022 could still end up be a very good year for us.


In 2023, Paddy is likely to be our only possible significant playing loss. And he may well play on.

However in 2023 King should be ever stronger and better. And our young crop of Nasiah, Windhager and Owens should all be better after a season of actually playing games again. Not to mention another pre-season. Plus some other younger players like Byrnes or Sharman may push up as well.

Max Heath with another years worth of games and gym work looks on track to be a good support for Marshall at AFL Level. This year I suspect he would not be quite strong enough.